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JuJu70
The Onion Knight said:
Most times people left and were watching you, it doesn't mean you killed everyone. So yes everyone knew who came and who burnt the monastery, and then it goes through a grapevine. BTW it only reduces your relations with a faction owning a village nearby (If it's Christian), you get bad rep if you continuously raid monasteries.
JuJu70
Debate? realistically speaking you should try to understand the cost structure of 800s for many things to even start the debate. First off, money is arbitrary in here, everything is always normalized to more tangible goods. Anyways, swords should really be ~8-10k, mail should be in 10-15k range and helmets in a few thousands. These things were all made on order, it's 800s and not mid 16 century with armorers producing goods for sale.
Second, sword was and is a dominant weapon. Do you think Romans had no clue about axes and used their short sword instead because they were dumb? Sword is significantly harder to make (like realllllly much harder) as opposed to making a cheap axehead. If you want, I can give you a short lecture on metallurgy, especially the one in mid 800s. Swords mostly came from Frankia so they couldn't be "cheap".
Now regarding the axe - axe is a cheap weapon, but it's unsuitable for defense, unbalanced and thus slower, short, and will only inflict damage if you hit with its right spot. In other words, most hits with an axe will be glancing blows without real damage. Saying axe was Ak47 is probably correct, cheap and not very accurate.
Bows, I guess these things have to come up continuously. Ok, bows were not real bows of 1200s. They were mainly hunting bows, and people using them were not warriors, they were peasants. Bow was a weapon of choice of a lowest viking because he could not afford anything else. British and Saxons didn't use longbows in 800s, longbow was most likely reintroduced to England by Vikings, but was not most likely used in England en masse until some time in 11 century (about 200 years after the fact). So in essence to simulate a lack of archer warfare in England, we have 2 choices, make bow strong but wipe out any archer units that are in the game (they are all fantasy units anyways), or make bows and archers weak and let only player progress. Basically, if you get to skill 300 in archery you pretty much can kill anyone with 1-3 arrows. So buffing the bow without making adjustments to units and their quantity makes battles unbalanced. Noone won battles with archers, they were always a disturbance unit.
Missile-javelins, OK, most thrown weapons can be easily sidestepped. One hit one kill is bogus because there is no angling possibilities in WB, pretty much any hit goes straight through. Again, you need to balance that against the damage these javelins cause.
Finally, chainmail. Believe it or not, anyone in a chainmail was semigod, that's why people wore it (not to mentioned the stuff they wore under it).
The only thing I would change back is the piercing damage for the seaxes, it had to be reduced otherwise bots favored them over spears (internal WB engine logic). Don't know why you think spears are useless, one hit and you could be half dead even in chainmail.
Making weapons cheap makes you a semigod early on, even at level 1. I guess you like playing in a fantasy world.
Lastly, I noticed you removed "your wife cheating on you". That really looks like extremely sensitive area for you
because in the game world it's pretty much meaningless.
Kale3
Regular
JuJu70 said:
Debate? realistically speaking you should try to understand the cost structure of 800s for many things to even start the debate. First off, money is arbitrary in here, everything is always normalized to more tangible goods. Anyways, swords should really be ~8-10k, mail should be in 10-15k range and helmets in a few thousands. These things were all made on order, it's 800s and not mid 16 century with armorers producing goods for sale.
Second, sword was and is a dominant weapon. Do you think Romans had no clue about axes and used their short sword instead because they were dumb? Sword is significantly harder to make (like realllllly much harder) as opposed to making a cheap axehead. If you want, I can give you a short lecture on metallurgy, especially the one in mid 800s. Swords mostly came from Frankia so they couldn't be "cheap".
Now regarding the axe - axe is a cheap weapon, but it's unsuitable for defense, unbalanced and thus slower, short, and will only inflict damage if you hit with its right spot. In other words, most hits with an axe will be glancing blows without real damage. Saying axe was Ak47 is probably correct, cheap and not very accurate.
Bows, I guess these things have to come up continuously. Ok, bows were not real bows of 1200s. They were mainly hunting bows, and people using them were not warriors, they were peasants. Bow was a weapon of choice of a lowest viking because he could not afford anything else. British and Saxons didn't use longbows in 800s, longbow was most likely reintroduced to England by Vikings, but was not most likely used in England en masse until some time in 11 century (about 200 years after the fact). So in essence to simulate a lack of archer warfare in England, we have 2 choices, make bow strong but wipe out any archer units that are in the game (they are all fantasy units anyways), or make bows and archers weak and let only player progress. Basically, if you get to skill 300 in archery you pretty much can kill anyone with 1-3 arrows. So buffing the bow without making adjustments to units and their quantity makes battles unbalanced. Noone won battles with archers, they were always a disturbance unit.
Missile-javelins, OK, most thrown weapons can be easily sidestepped. One hit one kill is bogus because there is no angling possibilities in WB, pretty much any hit goes straight through. Again, you need to balance that against the damage these javelins cause.
Finally, chainmail. Believe it or not, anyone in a chainmail was semigod, that's why people wore it (not to mentioned the stuff they wore under it).
The only thing I would change back is the piercing damage for the seaxes, it had to be reduced otherwise bots favored them over spears (internal WB engine logic). Don't know why you think spears are useless, one hit and you could be half dead even in chainmail.
Making weapons cheap makes you a semigod early on, even at level 1. I guess you like playing in a fantasy world.
Lastly, I noticed you removed "your wife cheating on you". That really looks like extremely sensitive area for you
Look man, this is a mod. A completely free mod you don't have to download. I appreciate constructive criticism, your first post was constructive criticism if a bit blunt, but then you blatantly insult my mod. I took time out of my weekends and breaks to make this mod, I released it because I felt some of these aspects of VC need improving, you don't have to download this mod, and you most certainly don't have to bash on it when I took some of my precious time to make this. I would like a little respect. Warbands engine just can't do some things we would like it to do, yes I know someone can't kill someone immediately with a javelin, and I know that a trained warrior would be able to sidestep it, but that's a limitation of warbands engine. Keeping the same jav damage but reducing their capacity would make them useless, so they need to be effective enough to make it worth carrying them. As far as the wife cheating goes,
, sorry man I don't have a wife at all (irl or in game), in fact I play a female character in VC. I took this out as I figured it made some players mad. Also just a tip in life, is saying that "That really looks like extremely sensitive area for you" is an extremely disrespectful and overly assumes things. If you ever said that aloud to someone (of which I highly doubt you would have the balls to do), you would get jumped.The Onion Knight
Recruit
JuJu70 said:
No but it says, for example, due to Christian clergyman spreading bad rumours about you your relationship with the kingdom of Wessex declines. This is because relation with Christians is bad and makes all Christian kingdoms hostile. I'm asking if it makes sense for the kingdom of Wessex to know about my raiding in Scotland. Could those Christian clergy man or survivors have travelled all the way from Alban to Wessex and survive?
JuJu70
Rumors start after you raid ~3 monasteries, I would say it is realistic that rumors start to spread about the same guy raiding monasteries continuously. Obviously people saw the same guy, maybe monks and they sent a message about a pagan raider to warn other monasteries. Since monks can't really defend themselves, they try to engage as many military people as possible. For all we know all these rumors could be lies, but they portray you in a very bad light, a threat to Christianity and ultimately to any Christian kingdom.The Onion Knight said:
JuJu70
Sorry, if it offended you but I merely meant it in a sarcastic way
. Looked like quite an arbitrary thing among mostly weapon and armor modifications.Anyways, I'm not trying to bring you down, merely responding to you on why things the way they are in VC, and why we wanted to have as much realism as possible in VC. Many "realistic" features didn't make the cut, like 10k swords, or 2k shields that were destroyed with 1 javelin for obvious reasons. BTW WB economy is unfixable, in general.
BTW, Native is super Easy.
JuJu70
QWW said:
What about the spears? I don't think they are useless.
Laizenbh
Knight
JuJu70 said:
If you want, I can give you a short lecture on metallurgy, especially the one in mid 800s. Swords mostly came from Frankia so they couldn't be "cheap".
Lastly, I noticed you removed "your wife cheating on you". That really looks like extremely sensitive area for you
I supose a penninga(the coin of the game) is a gold or silver coin right? If so i agree with the lower price...but i also think that less coin should be available in the world as well, not even a powerfull Danish Jarl should have 100k of coins....that is like Dragon treasure lol.
This wife thing is a pain in the a** actually...she cheat you and the guy who f*** her start to hate you, you lose twice!
Kale3
Regular
JuJu70 said:
Sorry, if it offended you but I merely meant it in a sarcastic way
Anyways, I'm not trying to bring you down, merely responding to you on why things the way they are in VC, and why we wanted to have as much realism as possible in VC. Many "realistic" features didn't make the cut, like 10k swords, or 2k shields that were destroyed with 1 javelin for obvious reasons. BTW WB economy is unfixable, in general.
BTW, Native is super Easy.
Yeah man, it's fine. This mod is not intended for historical accuracy, nor is it intended to make the game easy. I could conquer the map in vanilla VC in about the same amount of time in this mod, the problem with conquering in VC is it just gets to a point of being tedious. Native can be easy, but mostly cause the lords scale to your party size. In VC that is not the case, lords usually have 2 or so times the amount you have, in this mod with the large armies part your levy units will get chewed up and spat out by any higher tier units. It's hard to find a balance between easy and hard in WB. Were also never going to find an accurate description of economy from archaeological findings from an era thousands of years ago. What made me mad on your post is calling it "easy viking fantasy mod" this mod is in no way fantasy, there are no dragons flying around, it's not set in a different world, though, if you think about VC could be considered fantasy with factions conquering and declaring war and such. Could be considered alternate history, but that's what makes the DLC fun. Anyways glad we worked it out. PS, I don't take sarcasm well.
Gunnarr
If only the AI was better at determining where to use the low and overhead stabs...
The Onion Knight
Recruit
Actually, I find fighting AI with spears really hard. They just keep you at a distance and take a huge gulp of your health with like one thrust.
Kale3
Regular
vonbalt said:i like the changes in the mod except for the "villages always have 50 recruits", this one looks like cheating for me instead of just rebalancing like the other changes, is there a way to easy change it back to vanilla VC? thanks
Yes there is, I made the tweak as it made me feel like I was playing total war or something, the way to fix is to find scripts.txt (make a backup just in case) and find 2136 3 1224979098644774935 50 1224979098644774928 The 50 is the village recruits. There is another tweak, 1224979098644774928 30 the 30 is the number of recruits with minimum relation, hope this helps. Will add to description of mod, if you need any further assistance feel free to message me again.
Hibernicus
Recruit
Unrelated but I also miss freelancer. Wish you guys could develop your own version of freelancer. I have zero modding skills and not much time to attempt to learn it due to work or else I would. ****ty excuse I know but c'mon. Freelancer helped me IMMENSELY during early game Brytenwalda, plus the RP aspect.
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