Reconsider Roster Rule Regarding transfers

We've been discussed it within the admin team sometimes ago and we came down to the conclusion that we had more reasons not to allow it that the contrary.

I would like to hear what you can bring to counter Aeronwen's arguments, cause I myself didn't have anything I found valuable.

Taken from the admin forum :

Tardet said:

The exemple I had in minds was Football. In Football, they have two transfer periods where people can move from teams to teams. So for exemple, If Player A is moving to Manchester City because he doesn't feel comfortable in Chelsea and got a better proposition, he can do it in this very short period of time. And nobody will complain because Manchester City is above Chelsea in the rankings.

Same could go for Warband. However I won't speak about 10 weeks but 7 because I absolutly exclude allowing transfer period during the Knockout stage, for all the reasons you quoted. (I was refering to Aeronwen's post, basically what she sumed up on TW) But I think it could work out for the League. Allowing only one period, midway - Week 4-5 - would allow people to move from a team to another team. Around 2 months doesn't seem to do much, but If a player feel uncomfortable in a team, it can happen really quickly and I think we should give him/her an opportunity to continue playing in the WNL, to keep up the level and the competitive spirit, but in another structure.

Moreover, if we wanna make sure that people don't disband their teams to merge into higher structure which are better ranked, we could allow for exemple (that's just an exemple) 2 or 3 transfers only per team. So people really think about what changes they wanna make, but still have the possibility to do so.

But as I said, your arguments make sense to me, so I don't mind If we keep it as it is, atleast for this WNL.

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However some of the arguments I brought could be easily countered like the fact 2 or 3 players can sometimes make a huge difference, depending on who they're and which team they leave/join.

Let's be clear, for all of those who still think they will be able to play in this WNL, and are posting on this topic for this precise reason, you can already stop, there won't be any rule change about that for this tournament.

However If some of you are seeing further than their personal interest, than yes, I think there is room for discussion and with enough good arguments, why not allowing a transfer phase at week 4. It prevent huge merges since not a lot of teams usually drop out before week 4 and still give the occasion to players in the same situation than Donut or Connor for instance, to keep playing.

I would also like to bring as a last argument in the favor of the rule change that all the team sports (Football, Rugby, Basketball etc ..) lasting for the year have transfer periods. In the E-Sport, CSGO, LoL and DOTA tournaments don't last as long as our tournaments do. (Around one week for CSGO major tournaments, same for LoL and DOTA I believe). We find ourselves in the middle of this, with tournaments lasting around 1,5/2 months. With that in minds, and the fact we're not professional players, I think a transfer period at the middle of the League, before we have a clear idea of how the play offs are gonna look like, would be a reasonable compromise.

Thanks for quick response and decision even if wasn't the right choice IMO.

Aeronwen said:

Dawnut said:

As to your opinion that it's too late, the tournaments still has one or two months left until it ends afaik. It does not end in two weeks, knockout stage comes after, and some of us who have not been able to participate could make it into a team also for the knockout stage.
So it isn't too late, there has been nothing decided yet and still a while until then!

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As I see it the rule was introduced specifically to prevent players from knocked out teams switching to teams that remain in the tournament.  It makes a mockery of the whole tournament when that happens.

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I/we were not able to participate and get knocked out in the first place. So by joining a knockout team I wouldn't be exploiting this, which was the point of the rule, targeting those players.

There are pros and cons to every rule.  Having the rule in place means that teams are encouraged to stick together for the length of a tournament and players should consider carefully before joining a team.

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At the expense of anything happening within the team and the player being screwed. I don't know your idea of clan but it looks like you see them as families or whatever. It's just a group of guys who play, some may not know each other at all, or even not get along. You can NOT pretend I didn't carefully consider joining my team, like what the ****? This pretentiousness is what I don't like. There can always surge problems in teams and clans, even if at the start it was fine.

If transfers were allowed we risk teams breaking up because their one or two best players are poached to other teams after a good performance or two.

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I agree, but maybe you could work out some solution?...

While I sympathise with players who left a team after finding the team dynamics did not work for them or whose team broke up or left the tournament, those considerations have to be out in the balance with the detrimental effects of allowing transfers. There might be a case to be made for a limited number of transfers or transfers for a limited time.  For me, though,  the balance still comes down on the side of players taking more responsibility for their own decisions and making more effort to find and maintain the right team for them.

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So you point out a solution, nice.
I see you keep subltly blaming the player without any clue of our situation and make that your selling point for not being even arsed to add the solution you say yourself that could work just fine. What is that, some kind of punishment in your mind?

10 weeks is really not that long.

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Great argument! I guess I must subject to what your subjective opinion of "long" means. 2 months and two weeks is a considerable amount of time in anyone's book.

Basically what could have easily been solved with a little transfer week or whatever, has not been done in the unfounded belief that we choose our teams lying down chilling, eyes closed, capirinha in hand. Expected.

you're doing it wrong

aight clown legit useful post gj, remaining clowns please come in slowly one by one, no rushing.

Dawnut said:

snip

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I understand you want the rule change so you can play, but the rules cover all circumstances not one player at one time so nothing in my post was directed at you personally.

Like I said, I don't think there is an absolute right or wrong in this its simply a question of where the balance falls.  The rule was introduced mainly to deal with the problem of the best players from teams that were knocked out of the tournament simply moving to those teams that remained in, making the whole structure of a tournament senseless.  Maybe there is a good way to refine the rule so the problems do not arise, but if there is that sort of aggressive posting osn't going to help find it.

I think we had a rule that stated: "Players can transfer once until week 5. After this deadline, no players can transfer anymore." While week 5 might be a bit late into the tournament, I think the rule would still be a good rule instead of just saying: "You are only allowed to play for one team per season."

Watly said:

I think we had a rule that stated: "Players can transfer once until week 5. After this deadline, no players can transfer anymore." While week 5 might be a bit late into the tournament, I think the rule would still be a good rule instead of just saying: "You are only allowed to play for one team per season."

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+1

Aeronwen said:

Dawnut said:

snip

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I understand you want the rule change so you can play, but the rules cover all circumstances not one player at one time so nothing in my post was directed at you personally.

Like I said, I don't think there is an absolute right or wrong in this its simply a question of where the balance falls.  The rule was introduced mainly to deal with the problem of the best players from teams that were knocked out of the tournament simply moving to those teams that remained in, making the whole structure of a tournament senseless.  Maybe there is a good way to refine the rule so the problems do not arise, but if there is that sort of aggressive posting osn't going to help find it.

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I have a hard time trying to grasp what you mean with balance all this figurative speech. So i will just say that players shouldnt never have to pay for the admins inablity to make a good rule for everyone. Bye

Dawnut said:

Bye

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See you around !

Dawnut said:

Aeronwen said:

Dawnut said:

snip

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I understand you want the rule change so you can play, but the rules cover all circumstances not one player at one time so nothing in my post was directed at you personally.

Like I said, I don't think there is an absolute right or wrong in this its simply a question of where the balance falls.  The rule was introduced mainly to deal with the problem of the best players from teams that were knocked out of the tournament simply moving to those teams that remained in, making the whole structure of a tournament senseless.  Maybe there is a good way to refine the rule so the problems do not arise, but if there is that sort of aggressive posting osn't going to help find it.

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I have a hard time trying to grasp what you mean with balance all this figurative speech. So i will just say that players shouldnt never have to pay for the admins inablity to make a good rule for everyone. Bye

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Well you can always host your own tournament or offer your services as an admin ^^ Or you could post in a polite and normal matter. Its too late for transfers this season of wnl because it would totally change the way the league is shaping up. Late transfers mess things up a lot more than a couple of people who fell out with their clan mates and thus have nowhere to play. The rules are there to help protect the teams that are not doing so well and keep the integrity of the league stage intact.


They said they will look at changing the rules for the next tournament, posting like you expect the admins to do you a favour or that they owe you anything doesn't help.

Maybe a transfer week between 3-4 would be good. It would allow players that wont get much play time to leave their clans and find new ones but at the same time its early enough that people wont start clan hopping just to make it to the knock-out stages if we have the same format for future WNLs. Personally id prefer a wnl3 style league if the clans don't disband, i find it fairer than pick night ^^

_Osiris_ said:

Personally id prefer a wnl3 style league

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<3

I support Dawnut.

Come on badmins, leave Britney alone, let him play, it is not going to change the climate.
YOu should change the rules to allow recruitment of a joker or two.

From seeing this rule from both sides of the river now, I'd be in support of allowing this sort of rule to be put in place. Reason being, the main issue that this rule not being in place tries to solve is that the best players from teams who get knocked out can't all switch to another team. Right? Most of the teams signed up to this tournament are clans, and wouldn't allow players to 'multi-clan' or whatever plus not too many people (notice the too) are knob-heads and would do something like that. (If their team got knocked out that is)

Another point, would be that these 'best players' belong to good teams anyway, so would more-than-likely see their team through most of the tournament anyway. And those best players that don't belong to a good team, well. What about them? Good teams aren't going to try and get them because they already have good players, and bad teams (when I say bad, I mean teams that get knocked out early) wouldn't try and get them either because they've already been knocked out.

The reason this rule should be allowed is because players no matter their skill level, don't always make the right choice in their team (or clan) and don't want to play with their team for the rest of the WNL for whatever reason. But they can't change team because of this rule, so instead of allowing a player to carry on playing for the rest of the WNL, he will have to sit out and not play at all; as if it's gotten to the point where said player wants to leave entirely, then I doubt he'd then put up with playing for the same team for the rest of the WNL. (And baring in mind, 10 weeks -is- a long time in my book). This will just reduce the amount of players taking part in this tournament.  (Not massively but hey, these are the 'best players' so they probably do make an impact)

I just think it's somewhat cruel and limiting to those players who do want to change, because of internal struggles of whatever, not because their team is knocked-out. If they can't change a team I'd have no doubt they'll just leave altogether which is something I don't think you guys (admins) want. Put yourself in that position and then see how great you see the rule as being. I understand that you think not having the rule has larger benefits than actually having the rule, but I don't. Previous tournaments that have implemented a rule that's similar to this haven't de-railed and imploded have they? Why can't we have it then?; Don't say it's because the best players will change teams, because that's not been a major issue in other tournaments.

RN_Pendragon said:

It's making the tournament much more competitive. I think there is nothing wrong with that rule, in case you need to make your choises wisely 

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This pretty much.

We didn't want mass migration of players from teams which can no longer make the cut. To be honest I feel like the tournaments are now short enough that players should be able to stick to 1 team for the entirety of the tournament. To clarify, the rule won't be changed this tournament.

Perhaps in the future we could have a Week 3 or 4 transfer period though, thanks for the suggestion.

thats how you do it