1860s - PROBLEMS, suggestions....& Solutions, even from you, if possible!

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GABRILDURO said:
Ciao Michelle!!! :mrgreen:
Thank you very much for your nice words, to all of us, the Gabrilduro's Bunch, as I like to call all the people that are helping so much in all my projects and Mods (Team mates, Helpers and best Supporters!!).
My best compliments on your history knoledge and your precision and nice way to explain things....and after reading your profile, well...let me tell you that you are kind of a dream coming true: a girl that has these historical and videogame Skills...is not something that happens very often, on this "tough Warriors Males Forum" !!!  :mrgreen:
We all would be pleased to have your kind presence on the Forum more often and, even more, to actively work with us as a Helper and part of the Gabrilduro's Bunch!!  :cool:

Unfortunately my time is very short at this moment, but I will exchange comments with you and the Bunch tomorrow....and see how we can handle things better and all together, huh?

Forgive my english, since not perfect (I am Italian, hehehe )

Best regards

Gabby  :wink:

PS ...some of your points are already in the Mod but not developed yet.
Some other are in my mind, but I cannot do them yet.  :oops:

PSbis I am in contact with the creator of L'Aigle, as well (Auld, is one of the things that keep me busy and forget to answer to your messages  :oops: ) but he is very busy, of course...

Heya :smile:

You don't have to apologize for your English. It is quite fine. I know some German if that's any easier for you.

My University degree was in History. Military History is a big thing for me, but I know a great breadth of history from all across the world. My boyfriend and I are always interested in martial arts from all over the world, from firearms to German Two-Handed Sword Fighting to Kendo to Judo. Many men seem impressed that I'm interested in video games and history, as even here in the US it's kind of a rare combination. I'm unique. :smile:

I played through some more and came up with a few more suggestions. I have a ton of free time, so coding or putting any of these ideas into the mod is something I could work on for you and your team.

1. The names of officers and generals need to be redone. Many still retain their 1755 names. It looks a bit odd to see Colonel Washington leading soldiers into battle against me.
2. The faces of the soldiers need to be randomized some. I don't mind manually doing this if you want.
3. I was thinking that you could find a way to make black soldiers by creating an upgrade tree via the regular recruits or add them in as a separate recruitment. Black soldiers in the Civil War served entirely as Union Soldiers and comprised, at most, one tenth of the army by the end of the war. There is a great article on Wikipedia about the USCT (United States Colored Troops). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Colored_Troops It gives you some idea of what you could do with them in the mod. I could work on an upgrade tree for them. In order to be accurate, historically, I could help design them, as I know a lot about them.
4. Zouave Units fought on the North and South. They were not numerous, but they were in significant battles. A troop tree for them should be made.
5. I noticed you were putting Maximillian's army into the game. I did a 25 page article about Napoleon III and his attempts to install Max into Mexico. Most of the troops involved in that fiasco were French Foreign Legion and French National soldiers. I would suggest making the troops entirely French in nature, and they landed in Southern Mexico, at Veracruz, to be exact. Juarez's army should be placed in the northern parts of Mexico, as that is where he and General Alvarez drew most of their support following the French victory by 1862. This is fleshed out in some detail here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_intervention_in_Mexico . The Mexican troops could use numerous models, such as the Rurales first commissioned by Juarez. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurales There's a photograph of them during Diaz's era, but you get some idea of what they would look like and use. Spanish, French, English, and American firearms, some locally produced. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Battle_of_Churubusco2.jpg This is a painting done for the Mexican-American war and gives you some idea of their uniforms and firearms. They were patterned on earlier Napoleonic styles, though a bit less embellished. http://wotta.com.br/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=418 This offers some decent background on the Mexican side. Women were also known for their role in several battles on the Mexican side. Something to think about. You could make a Mexican Peasant woman troop tree with no real uniform and a decent rifle.
6. The balladeer still offers up poems and songs which are Warband. I could find some poems, songs, or similar things to help contextualize the period more, like a Walt Whitman poem or lyrics to Dixie (the Southern version and Northern version, which were different).
7. I love the music you have in the game, but I wanted to suggest adding in Mountain music (a genre of pre-country music in the US, localized to the Appalachian Mountains region and heavily influenced by old Irish and Scottish music), Slave Songs/hymns and blue grass music, as it is about the closest we have today in terms of period music. I could also record some stuff on my acoustic, since it would be free and I've been a musician for 17 years.
8. The flags need to be redone, as they still have the 1755 era logos. I could find you photographs of the flags used by various units, or I could simply make them for you. I've made my own flags for M&B before. I could find a way to change the textures on some of the ingame "weapon" flags to be regimental.
9. Elite Mercenaries still wear Warband outfits, which seem out of place.
10. The Canadian Union should be largely British outfitted and named. Though by the 1860's, Canada was undergoing internal reforms to attempt to gain Dominion status. Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick were the four main areas by this period. There was a big push to make the French much more included. I don't know the local military make-up of the period, but some history digging could probably come up with the names, flags, and soldiers of the period. This might be useful.
http://www.cmhg.gc.ca/cmh/image-434-eng.asp?page_id=499 It's an image of a Canadian Zouave from the period who served the British and Papal Armies. http://blackhistorycanada.ca/theme.php?id=3 This is a black regiment from Canada in the 1860's. This is a perfect example of a typical Canadian/British Soldier of the period. http://www.cmhg.gc.ca/cmh/image-422-eng.asp?page_id=485
11. There needs to be more cities. The cities, towns, and forts you have from the 1755 period need to be expanded. Many newer cities and areas out west were centers of immense importance and should be expanded, like Vicksburg, Fredericksburg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America This actually has all the flags, cities, and lots more on the period of the CSA. Some northern towns, like Chicago, were huge industry centers for beef. Many northern cities were textile mills, using southern cotton. I can find a series of great maps of the period outlining some towns, forts, and cities, if you'd like.
12. Money is still listed as "shillings." There's no real way to deal with the division of CSA and USA money production, so I would say change it to "greenbacks," "dollars," or "funds."
13. Trade could be localized more. For instance, in the regular Warband, Spice was almost entirely found exclusively in Tulga and Ichamur. One should put beef as a huge industry in Florida, as it contributed TONS of it to the war effort. Rum, sugar, coffee, and rice might be localized to Caribbean towns or cities. Corn should be localized to the Mid-Western towns.
14. I'm not sure how to use the formations system as of yet. I need to play with that some more, but units charge at the start of battle, which is hard to deal with when you desperately need terrain on your side in these battles. One can be easily massacred by a poor choice of setting up.
15. The Caribbean Islands should be fleshed out more. Haiti was a free nation by this period. Cuba was still a Spanish colony "La Siempre Fidelísima Isla" or "Always the most faithful island." It didn't start independence wars til 1868. They should be set up as a Spanish colony, selling primarily sugar and coffee (coffee was grown in the highlands, sugar in the plains). The soldiers should be a localized force of Spanish 1860's style army and friendly with the CSA. For the sake of the Pirates, I would make the Lesser Antilles and the Leeward islands into "Pirate" states, though they were more owned by Spain, France, Britain, and the Dutch in this period. I think setting them up as pirates would be pretty cool.
16. Echoing the previous statements about L'Aigle, yeah I was interested in their quality of uniforms, formations, and animations. Quite awesome :smile:.
17. The melee weapons should be changed. There were several types of cavalry and infantry sabres, knives, and swords in this period. I could give you all you'd need to know on that.
18. I'm still thinking on ways to improve or alter the Natives. I really love the Plains Natives as roaming bands. There were a few types of Natives out there and one of my friends is a Native American historian. Many of them used firearms and I think the top-tier units should have firearms. The balance of making them fast, somewhat armored and using fast, close-in knives seems quite well done thus far.

Anyway, if I can help with any of that or if that is like, information overload, it's cool :smile:. Being a historian, this period is sorta one of my favorites. I know a lot about it.

Michelle
 
Radetzky said:
I must say again awesome work on research! Just to reply to some points:

1. We already have made (Auldman and me) names for all factions (CS, US, CS and US frontiers,both Mexicos, Sioux, Cheyenne, Canada, Spain (Cuba), even Cuban revolutionaires (if we would include the start of 10 years war), we just wait to future, so we don't have to do the same work more times.

3.Please check my proposed troop tree here (still work in progress):
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,196556.msg4851719.html#msg4851719
It includes black soldiers for both sides as "mercenary" from taverns.

4. I look forward to see Zouaves too, we will have them once we will have ingame the stuff we got from Secession mod.

5. Thanks for your info! We have like tons of pictures of imperial army (I'm gonna try to Imperial troop trees soon), but very few of Juarez's army.

6. Would be really nice.

7. If all goes right we would like to have "regional based music", so in one territory the same genre would be played. It would'nt be that pleasant to hear Battle hymn of Republic in Mexico or deep South, or Bonnie Blue Flag in Sioux territory (as example)

8. Hopefully we will get flags from Secession, so we could have specific regiment flags aswell.

10. Again thanks for your valuable resources. We had made quite a lot of research in "Fenian Raids" topic here:
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,195393.0.html

And our great modeller and texturer Alan has made both red (Royal regt. of Canada) and grey-brown (Queen own rifles?) aswell as Fenian outfits.

In future main enemies of Canada will be Fenians and Métis people.

11. and 12. We will surely try to do this as soon as possible but again as in point 1, "we just wait to future, so we don't have to do the same work more times."

14. Should be fixed once we get to 1776 engine.

15. Yeah we will add Spanish Cuba if possible (plus maybe Cuban Revolutionaires- as Ten years war started in 1868, either small factions or bandits), the idea with Pirates is very good!

18. Yeah, plain indians are nice! Plus we are planning to add the indian factions aswell (probably  Sioux and Cheyenne)

Radetzky

Glad to be of assistance :smile:

I forgot that I read you were pulling stuff from the Secession mod. I can look around for more of Juarez's army, if you would for me to find out their structure. I have access to the University of Florida's library. I also own a scanner, so I could scan in photos I found.

The music will be awesome. If I may be so bold, I would *highly* recommend using "The Goat Rodeo Sessions" song "Attaboy. (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/401263/november-01-2011/yo-yo-ma--stuart-duncan--edgar-meyer---chris-thile----attaboy-) It's amazing and totally period.

Kudos to your modeler and texturer :smile:

If you need ideas for Spanish Cuba or the French Maximillian army, I can easily obtain that for you. A friend of mine is a Caribbean historian, so I could gather some ideas for piracy in the period for you, to help flesh out the Pirate States of the Antilles.

I look forward to it :smile:

Michelle
 
Holy mother of God, what alot of work y'all put into this..
I have to edit my suggestion list constantly because you folks keep suggesting xD

PS: I kinda notice that Custer would actually make head on charges in the civil war, as you say that was rare, auldman.
I believe (although fighting very-well equipped infantry) a head-on cavalry charge would still have had it's effects.
If not routing the enemy, then slowing them down.
 
George A. Custer said:
Holy mother of God, what alot of work y'all put into this..
I have to edit my suggestion list constantly because you folks keep suggesting xD

Haha! I only recently showed up to this forum. I saw Gabby stating in another forum that there was not a lot of feedback on the mod and was making him wonder about the worth of the work. I wanted to put my feedback in as a result, since I love all the other mods made by the team.

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/Manet-1.gif is a good painting of Juarez's army.

http://www.vision.net.au/~pwood/Volume1088.jpg This is a photo of some soldiers who helped Diaz (the successor to Juarez) come to power. Women were well-known for taking part in the struggles for the Republic in this period, and a good photo of them is here http://www.vision.net.au/~pwood/Volume1089.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss189/gorjak/460px-Young_Porfirio_Diaz.jpg This is Diaz, while a member of the Mexican Republican Army that fought under General Alvarez to battle Maximillian I. http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss189/gorjak/421px-Mariano_Escobedo.jpg This is Mariano Escobedo, who was formally in charge. http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss189/gorjak/441px-Ignacio_Zaragoza.jpg This is Ignacio Zaragoza. He was CnC of the Republican army.

On the Empire Total War forums, there was some discussion about the whole business. Here is the link. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=399744

On there, they actually lay out what each of the soldiers in the republican army would have used.
All Mexican Republicans start with the following, in addition to their other starting equipment:
1x Springfield M1855 rifled musket
1x Smith & Wesson Model 1
1x Shortsword
1x Bayonet
1x Draft horse
3x Bullets

Units:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
Republican Guerrilla
1x Sharps rifle
1x Bayonet
1x Pocket knife
3x Bullets

Republican Rifleman
1x Springfield M1855 rifled musket
1x Colt Army Model 1860
1x Bayonet
1x Pocket knife
3x Bullets

Republican Cazador
1x Springfield M1861 rifled musket
1x Smith & Wesson Model 1
1x Bayonet
1x Shortsword
6x Bullets

Republican Francotirador
1x Springfield M1866 rifle
1x Remington Model 1858
1x Bayonet
1x Shortsword
6x Bullets

American Mercenary
1x Spencer repeating rifle
1x Remington Model 1858
1x Cutlass
1x Pony
6x Bullets

Republican Dragoon
1x Sharps carbine
1x Remington Model 1858
1x Cutlass
1x Pony
4x Bullets

Republican Hussar
1x Tarpley carbine
1x Remington Model 1858
1x Sabre
1x Saddlebred
6x Bullets

Republican Lancer
1x Lance
1x Sabre
1x Remington Model 1858
1x Saddlebred
3x Bullets

Estado Mayor Presidencial
1x Spencer repeating carbine
1x LeMat Revolver
1x Sabre
Cuirassier's armor
1x Destrier
8x Bullets


A Troop Tree is proposed there also.
Private (all new players start here) - $25/week
Sergeant - command over a squad (12 men) - $40/week
Lieutenant - command over a platoon (36 men) - $75/week
Captain - command over a company (100 men) - $125/week
Colonel - command over a battalion (600 men) - $175/week
Brigadier - command over a regiment (1,200 men) - $300/week
Major-General - command over a division (10,000 men) - $500/week
Lieutenant-General - command over a corps (20,000 men) - $750/week
General - command over an army (40,000 men) - $1,000/week
Marshal - command over the armed forces of the faction - $2,000/week

There are some good photos and artwork of their uniforms here. Some places indicate they wore a light green outfit modeled on Napoleon's Grand Armee', but others suggest blue uniforms. Some others were irregulars in what would be described as "Vaquero" outfits, or Mexican Spanish for "cowboy."
http://peaceaware.com/papers/Empire_Manet_Maximilian.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaquero The photo in the top right shows what a typical Vaquero of the 1800's would have resembled. They could be used as a kind of model for Mexican Mercenaries or village recruit in your troop tree.
http://www.legendsofamerica.com/photos-oldwest/Mexican%20vaquero%20-%20Frederic%20Remington.jpg This is from 1891, and probably isn't too far from what a Vaquero and "Rurales" of the period would have resembled. Most of the Rurales were police set up by Juarez's government, which were the basis for what are now federal police or "Federales."

 
Mexican Imperial Soldier
http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=76715&t=r

Mexican Imperial Dragoon
http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=76713&t=r

Mexican Rurales Guerillas and Vaqueros during the period
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-HE1lR1mlb8/TF-Rw2oGFiI/AAAAAAAAC8g/xpbpcK2cxPk/s1600/contras_ast.jpg

Mexican Republican Infantry
http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=76657&t=r

Mexican Mounted Vaquero
http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=76666&t=r

Mexican Republican Lancer
http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=76662&t=r

Should give your texture and model person some ideas.
 
I must say it's very great to have another very-commited person in this. Obviously you put alot of work in each post.
Which makes them enjoyable to read. (made me learn a couple of things =D)
Your suggestions make alot of sense, alot of them are simmiliar to mine.

Custer
 
celestialred said:
Mexican Imperial Soldier
http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=76715&t=r

Mexican Imperial Dragoon
http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=76713&t=r

Mexican Rurales Guerillas and Vaqueros during the period
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-HE1lR1mlb8/TF-Rw2oGFiI/AAAAAAAAC8g/xpbpcK2cxPk/s1600/contras_ast.jpg

Mexican Republican Infantry
http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=76657&t=r

Mexican Mounted Vaquero
http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=76666&t=r

Mexican Republican Lancer
http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=76662&t=r

Should give your texture and model person some ideas.

Outstanding stuff! I think Alan will really dig having that stuff to work from!
 
George A. Custer said:
I must say it's very great to have another very-commited person in this. Obviously you put alot of work in each post.
Which makes them enjoyable to read. (made me learn a couple of things =D)
Your suggestions make alot of sense, alot of them are simmiliar to mine.

Custer

Well thank you :smile:

Auldman -

If you need any other information, just PM me or email me. I'm happy to help. History is my passion.

Michelle
 
Team Old America,

First, I'd like to congratulate you on your great mod.  I purchased Warband about a week ago and I've spent far more time on your creation than in the base game.  Considering the options for first-person shooter and role-playing games that are set in this time period, you guys have made something that far surpasses what's available on the commercial market.

I think that most of the big concepts that I would have added to the discussion have been covered by this point.  Celestialred covered most of the things I found myself muttering to myself during gameplay AND out-history-geeked me while doing so, which is a welcomed rarity.  Kudos there.

Since I don't know too much (read: anything) about modding M&B, I'll phrase my requests as questions to aid my own learning process.  First, my gameplay experience comes as one of Jefferson Davis' sworn men.  I was awarded a recently captured fief northwest of Green Bay and Ft. Le Baye for my services.  I found that the men I was recruiting from the newly conquered liberated areas of Racine and its environs were actually Yankees.  Pretty soon, I was leading an army in blue against an army in blue, which made target acquisition problematic.  Is there a way to make the troops recruited from an area based on the faction that currently owns the town rather than follow the recruitment tree of the original owner?

This wasn't a problem for too long.  Jeff Davis made peace with the USA and the US Settlers within 100 game days.  However, what I can only suppose was a heated argument about Varina's virtue (or lack thereof) occurred between Mr. Davis and his erstwhile Vice President, Alexander Stephens.  As Mr. Stephens happened to be the commander of the CS Settlers, war was declared.  The Yankees mocked us as we Confederates depleted our resources bickering amongst ourselves.  I was happy to find that my blue-coated troops stood out on the battlefield against my foes.  Mr. Stephens eventually apologized to my President and made peace, but then used his wheelchair act to find the daughter of the CS Florida leader and make her less coy in many various ways, necessitating a war between them as Abe Lincoln herniated his gut with laughter at the fussin' and feudin' of his onetime countrymen.  My question is this: Do the United States and Confederate States need to be split into two and three factions, respectively, or can they be coalated into one?  As I experienced, this implementation only serves to lessen the historical realism of the time, nor did I find that these divisions as such added anything to the gameplay.

TL;DR: Troops should be recruited for the faction tree that currently owns the town, not its original owner.  Unite the various USA/CSA factions into one USA and CSA faction.

Thank you for reading.  I look forward to playing this mod for quite some time.
 
i tested the mp mod of the civil war and they had some kickass uniforms. Didn't you get permission to use them in your mod

id love to see them in this mod. :shock:

 
ArUlairi
Thx very much for your comments.
Actually some "choices " I made were kind of "necessary" cuz I couldn t handle them differently... :oops:
But I made them trying to still give a sense to them, see?  :wink:

von Afton
Secession Mod is a great MP mod, and I do have permission on some stuff.
I will add some of that on my next update  :wink:
Gabby
 
von Afton said:
is the le mat revolver going to be in? :shock:
Yes, but not from them.
See, most of weapons were made splendid by Tessius, but he told me very clearly that he will probably will not give me permission for ANY of his creations  :???:
That is a real pity and I cannot see the reason, since most of creators of Secessions are willing to help me....maybe it is because I am Italian and Tessius said that mods about America should be made by Americans only....I don t know.
Poomtang had a big fight with Tessius, so that could be it as well....but I do not have Poomtang in my Bunch anymore.
Whatever. I do not prey ppl if they don t like me.
I will use all the stuff from my friend Rockwell (B&G Mod) and keep on honoring his great work on that.
Models are not as perfect as Tessius, but I will use them with satisfaction.
Gab
 
I don't think that would make a difference. Gab has 3 Americans working on his mods in one shape or another but Gab is the leader of the team and in some minds that's plenty enough reasoning. It really doesn't matter when it comes down to it, Gab asked to use the models (as all good modders do when they use other peoples work) and he said no. So Gab went to the next best thing and so that is where we're at.

 
Dellivis said:
I don't think that would make a difference. Gab has 3 Americans working on his mods in one shape or another but Gab is the leader of the team and in some minds that's plenty enough reasoning. It really doesn't matter when it comes down to it, Gab asked to use the models (as all good modders do when they use other peoples work) and he said no. So Gab went to the next best thing and so that is where we're at.
Yes i believe Hinkel is the star of That mod anyway  :oops:
 
Dellivis said:
I don't think that would make a difference. Gab has 3 Americans working on his mods in one shape or another but Gab is the leader of the team and in some minds that's plenty enough reasoning. It really doesn't matter when it comes down to it, Gab asked to use the models (as all good modders do when they use other peoples work) and he said no. So Gab went to the next best thing and so that is where we're at.
Thx Dell! I love when you "Americans" explain in such good english what I mean!  :wink:
That is exactly it, Von Afton....and honestly I am so happy to honor the work that a great person like Rockwell did....he was the first -ever- modder in M&B to do a western american Mod, see??!!  :shock:
OK! Let s move on, now!  :twisted:
Gabby
PS the Team is deeply testing 1776 in order to update it and see if possible to use it as....a new base for 1860s, as well  :mrgreen:

OOHH...would you be so nice to use one of the new, and even multiple, supporter sigs???
That one is no more... :twisted:
 
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