Author Topic: How to build companions properly?  (Read 6518 times)

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amr116

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How to build companions properly?
« on: August 26, 2015, 09:57:25 AM »
Not sure where to put this topic but i would really be grateful if someone told me how do i do so? i have already swore allegiance to England and on that quest to take that castle. however i noticed that my companions kinda....suck for example brunhild i am trying to build her primary as the healer of the party but making her melee would mean she will keep getting knocked out which means i wont get my heal affect, so i went for an archer build however she always ALWAYS goes into melee mode even thou i took all of her melee weapons away , i did see her see her bow once or twice but mostly going melee
Bodo kinda dies quicker more than he kills and i am not entirely sure how do i Build him proper, should i give him a spear or a sword ? medium light or heavy equipment ?
I also have those 2 random companions i don't remember their names, one is called doccho-something like that and the other is an engineer i got after the cave quest
also is there a way to get solvieg back?
the more details the better, thanks in advance!

Idibil

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Zephiris

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Re: How to build companions properly?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2017, 08:38:37 PM »
So... Really old topic, same unanswered question. Is there a ideal companion build detail anywhere to find? The original reply seemingly lead to a page with not a single guide on this and general forum search yielded nothing.

Basically, for each companion; The Ideal Loadout for their Role (Cavalry, Melee, or Ranged; And if ranged, Sling/Xbow/Bow/Throwing), Attribute and Skill builds.

Understandably, we can make every one of them into a horse-riding lancer with enough levels, but clearly Agathinos will take more work at getting there than Ailchu~ Especially considering attributes are hard to come by in VC compared to Warband, I do not want to deviate too far from their intended roles - if there is a viable one available.
Played vanilla mount and blade, then TEARC modded vanilla for the guns - stopped playing after patch disallowed me to crouch my glaive, and after an 8 year haitus, return to Viking reforged... Because, ship battles.

Pode

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Re: How to build companions properly?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2017, 09:33:15 PM »
Agathinos can hit INT 20 by level 16, which makes him the go to for all the INT party skills. Asbjorn can get INT 16 quickly and still be a respectable warrior, so he's your medic until Agathinos catches up. Caio and Ailchu can both hit AGI 20 by level 21 to cover the other party skills. I'd use Ailchu as the skill dump since Caio has better strength for combat. Cealwin can wield the Troll Axe by level 16. Solveig has great persuasion. Everyone else in my group gets javs, spear, sword/axe, shield and a timid pony if they can't ride or a formerly lame pony if they can. Att points into STR then AGI. Skill points into leadership, training, power strike, power throw, weapon master, riding, athletics, in that order. I keep my skill guys in a group in the back with my hornmen and standard bearers and use the rest to flank then charge enemy skirmishers or distract the shield wall while my main force throws at them.

Zephiris

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Re: How to build companions properly?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2017, 11:33:56 PM »
Agathinos can hit INT 20 by level 16, which makes him the go to for all the INT party skills. Asbjorn can get INT 16 quickly and still be a respectable warrior, so he's your medic until Agathinos catches up. Caio and Ailchu can both hit AGI 20 by level 21 to cover the other party skills. I'd use Ailchu as the skill dump since Caio has better strength for combat. Cealwin can wield the Troll Axe by level 16. Solveig has great persuasion. Everyone else in my group gets javs, spear, sword/axe, shield and a timid pony if they can't ride or a formerly lame pony if they can. Att points into STR then AGI. Skill points into leadership, training, power strike, power throw, weapon master, riding, athletics, in that order. I keep my skill guys in a group in the back with my hornmen and standard bearers and use the rest to flank then charge enemy skirmishers or distract the shield wall while my main force throws at them.

Awesome~! So from the sound of it, Other than Alichu and Agathinos and Asbjorn as the HM mules and Ceawlin for infantry, rest are lancer cavalry?

What about equipment for the mules? Any preferences? ie. Type of Ranged item (Give them Xbows or Slings for the higher ammo count? Or just javalins like the rest?) and type of armor (Heavy armor or cheap armor?)

EDIT: Oh and also, do you give your lancers Reach ~200 Spears? (Long War Spear/Ray/etc.) or ~150 Spears? (War Spear)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 10:41:00 AM by Zephiris »
Played vanilla mount and blade, then TEARC modded vanilla for the guns - stopped playing after patch disallowed me to crouch my glaive, and after an 8 year haitus, return to Viking reforged... Because, ship battles.

kraggrim

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Re: How to build companions properly?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2017, 03:24:11 AM »
Pode's guide is very good, but I'd disagree on some points. I'd totally prioritize training above leadership if you're not planning on hiring lots of vikings and mercs, you want quality over quantity. If you've got stamina turned on then prioritize athletics above weapon-master.

kalarhan

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Re: How to build companions properly?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2017, 12:33:20 PM »
1) Minister (good persuasion stats, and high relation with you)

2) Bodyguards (2-4) to take with you in missions. Good warriors, no party skills

3) Doc

4) Scout

5) Emissary (to send on diplomatic missions)

6) Support roles until you have enough skills points (at level ~25-30 you will take most jobs yourself)

Keep in mind you won't have 10 companions (unless you disable conflicts between them)

Pode

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Re: How to build companions properly?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2017, 08:35:54 PM »
Pode's guide is very good, but I'd disagree on some points. I'd totally prioritize training above leadership if you're not planning on hiring lots of vikings and mercs, you want quality over quantity. If you've got stamina turned on then prioritize athletics above weapon-master.

I concur with your exception cases. If you have the luxuries of spare cash (enterprises everywhere) and room under your battlesize, quantity has a quality all its own, but quantity of quality is far better in battle, and quality still takes the same single loot share each. I just like to have the flexibility to swarm in sieges if I feel the need.

I keep all my guys mounted, so stamina is a bit less of an issue. I mostly just worry about getting WM up to the point that their proficiencies won't top out before their next level, then go back later to take it up to their limit.

I keep everyone on ponies, since that seems to distract the AI into targeting their mount first and gives them effective HP. Cealwin still acts as lancing jav cav, he's just more of a glass cannon with his shield on his back once he gets dehorsed. I give them all the same gear as it makes it easier for me to keep track of what to salvage out of the loot pile for upgrades. After watching her snipe vikings in one mountain battle it was awfully tough to take away Dwywei's crossbow though. A military fustibalus with lead would be pretty scary as well.

Based on testing done in PoP, it seems raw damage is by far the single most important factor in AI weaponry, so I'm slowly buying up Rays as their spears, horseman javelins, heavy Pictish axes, and Goidelic Noble Long swords if I can ever find them. I clearly need to either be Pictish or fight them.

Brunhild makes a good medic by default even if you're giving her a combat build until you get Asbjorn quite a bit later in the storyline.

kalarhan

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Re: How to build companions properly?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2017, 08:47:57 PM »
I keep everyone on ponies

I do not want to deviate too far from their intended roles - if there is a viable one available.

then forget horses. VC is not about cavalry. You and your companions should fight as infantry instead (and your weak companions as ranged). That is, if you really want to keep within the game spirit and era. It will help to create a very distinct feeling from Native and mods as well, as you will need to learn how to fight from the ground

Pode

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Re: How to build companions properly?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2017, 09:32:55 PM »
Indeed. I am gamily exploiting the fact that companions are immortal. While I can sort of justify a horse for myself as giving the commander a higher and thus better view of the battlefield, and mounts for a bodyguard unit that stayed near me, a crack suicide squad who flanks and then charges a shield wall just to distract them is as realistic as battle magic. Very effective though.

For a less fantastical foot build I think I'd use them as my frontmost screen, with a shield, a hand and a half axe / sword, and two pairs of throwing spears unless they had really good skill with crossbow or sling.

Zephiris

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Re: How to build companions properly?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2017, 11:49:21 PM »
Indeed. I am gamily exploiting the fact that companions are immortal. While I can sort of justify a horse for myself as giving the commander a higher and thus better view of the battlefield, and mounts for a bodyguard unit that stayed near me, a crack suicide squad who flanks and then charges a shield wall just to distract them is as realistic as battle magic. Very effective though.

For a less fantastical foot build I think I'd use them as my frontmost screen, with a shield, a hand and a half axe / sword, and two pairs of throwing spears unless they had really good skill with crossbow or sling.

Ty for all the reply guys.

Two last questions:
1. For armor; Heavy as they can go or avoid gimping their throw/draw skill?
2. If by raw damage, would you recommend Xbow over sling for AI?


EDIT: Oh and also, any point at giving Horns/banners to the companions? Is the effect active just by being in the inventory or do they actually have to wave/blow it?
Played vanilla mount and blade, then TEARC modded vanilla for the guns - stopped playing after patch disallowed me to crouch my glaive, and after an 8 year haitus, return to Viking reforged... Because, ship battles.

Pode

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Re: How to build companions properly?
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2017, 03:51:23 PM »
Bigger concern, especially if you're not putting them on horses, is gimping their athletics and thus stamina. They'll only lose 1 PD / PT point but up to 4 Athletics points. A few percent more damage per hit isn't a worthwhile tradeoff versus them living long enough to get more hits in. So I go heavy and horses, but am always careful to pick lighter versions of gear that provide the same protection. For foot companions that need athletics more it'll be more of a tradeoff that I can't speak to.

IIRC an Xbow with the best bolts does 59P versus a military fustibalus with lead for 49B(39? + 10). I've not checked to see if VC uses different damage type modifiers than vanilla Warband. If not, those two are going to be roughly the same net damage against anyone wearing mail. Which is who you care about, overkilling a farmer doesn't kill the farmer next to him. The fustibalus has a bit faster rate of fire. The Xbow has better projectile speed, which means it's more effective at longer range. So I'd let their proficiencies dictate between the two.

Neither IMO outweighs the value of immortal heavily armed and armored shock troops, mounted or foot. Put 'em all in the front lines with a spear, shield, sidearm, and some throwing spears. Yeah they get KO'd a lot, that's what first aid skill is for.

Pretty sure that only equipped weapons have effects, so just having it in their inventory is no good. Especially the horn with it's one and done effect might be worthwhile in your slots as a commander though. Dunno if the horn bonus stacks with the leadership war cry effect.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 03:54:40 PM by Pode »

Zephiris

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Re: How to build companions properly?
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2017, 05:36:54 PM »
Bigger concern, especially if you're not putting them on horses, is gimping their athletics and thus stamina. They'll only lose 1 PD / PT point but up to 4 Athletics points. A few percent more damage per hit isn't a worthwhile tradeoff versus them living long enough to get more hits in. So I go heavy and horses, but am always careful to pick lighter versions of gear that provide the same protection. For foot companions that need athletics more it'll be more of a tradeoff that I can't speak to.

IIRC an Xbow with the best bolts does 59P versus a military fustibalus with lead for 49B(39? + 10). I've not checked to see if VC uses different damage type modifiers than vanilla Warband. If not, those two are going to be roughly the same net damage against anyone wearing mail. Which is who you care about, overkilling a farmer doesn't kill the farmer next to him. The fustibalus has a bit faster rate of fire. The Xbow has better projectile speed, which means it's more effective at longer range. So I'd let their proficiencies dictate between the two.

Neither IMO outweighs the value of immortal heavily armed and armored shock troops, mounted or foot. Put 'em all in the front lines with a spear, shield, sidearm, and some throwing spears. Yeah they get KO'd a lot, that's what first aid skill is for.

Pretty sure that only equipped weapons have effects, so just having it in their inventory is no good. Especially the horn with it's one and done effect might be worthwhile in your slots as a commander though. Dunno if the horn bonus stacks with the leadership war cry effect.

TY for the quick replies as always; Xbow + Best Bolts (Piercing/Bodkin both is +5, but piercing is more expensive for some reason) comes out to 60P, while Mil Fus is 29 +10 Lead=39B. Although Mil fus have twice the speed rating; although from the sound of it, it seems against armor, Xbow works better despite the slow firing. Ty for all the suggestions, I think I have a good idea of how to build my team now.
Played vanilla mount and blade, then TEARC modded vanilla for the guns - stopped playing after patch disallowed me to crouch my glaive, and after an 8 year haitus, return to Viking reforged... Because, ship battles.