Design Feedback: Selectable Companion Abilities

Method of Selection: (You can pick up to 3 choices. Each are explained in OP "options" spoiler)

  • Tiered Pools (Limited Selection Based on Ability Strength)

    Votes: 9 12.9%

  • Point Buy (Free for All, Balanced combinations based on point values)

    Votes: 22 31.4%

  • Pool Choice (Limited Selection Based on Ability Type)

    Votes: 23 32.9%

  • Preset Paths (Class groupings)

    Votes: 33 47.1%

  • Emblem Purchase (Free for All, Current presets with option to override with emblems)

    Votes: 28 40.0%
  • Total voters
    70

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Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
What about having "class specific" preset abilities? For example, if want X companion to be a lancer when the game intended them to be an archer (and currently earn archer-related abilities) you can either choose the abilities by yourself (if that actually becomes a feature) or you can simply basically tell them "You're a lancer" so every time they get an ability they choose from that preset of lancer abilities.

The pro is that you can truly make any companion whatever you want without having to min-max and micromanage every companion as much. Companions would start with their "default class" ability paths and they can be changed to fit a different class.
 
New poll is up.  Most of it is based on the selection list created by kirkusmaximus.  Thanks for compiling that.

You can select up to three options (or less if you're only interested in one type).  You can change your vote as well.
By all means please debate amongst yourselves what you'd like to see as you might convince folks in the value of that option and even help shape how I implement it if it gets chosen.

Each option is explained within the original post under the "options" spoiler.
 
Alright cool. Voted!

I think another option would be to make it so that particular characters have limitations of some sort. Like if you really want to make Klethi or Deshavi more of a leader type, you're going to pay extra in terms of points or emblems or whatever, more than if you had given that role to somebody like Lezalit. This means that if you choose to veer off the preset path that fits their personality more, you gotta work harder. Kinda like that with skills IRL anyway. You gotta put extra effort in to learn skills that are not necessarily your forte. You can still learn them but you got a hill to climb first.

So, people like me can still fully customize the companions and it gives the added bonus of making things a bit more challenging as far as management is concerned.
 
Pool Choice (Limited Selection Based on Ability Type) or Preset Paths (Class groupings). I like what Silverstag done to the companions in terms of uniqueness and these two option are not only those I like but also those that are true to the way how Silverstag handles the companions now.

Unless you can include an option for player to choose which type he wants when making new game...
 
D3monic said:
Unless you can include an option for player to choose which type he wants when making new game...
Click to expand...
An approach like that would get too complicated in terms of coding, player learning curve and balancing.  I'd prefer to keep us on one of the voted systems with an option for folks to keep the current presets that exist now.
 
Windyplains said:
New poll is up.  Most of it is based on the selection list created by kirkusmaximus.  Thanks for compiling that.
...
Click to expand...

No problem. Always happy to help.

I put my votes in.

When this does get implemented in whatever form I think we are going to need more abilities. I think I'll start another thread to gather ideas.
 
So, if we wanted to keep at least some characteristic "flavour" for each companion, what if every companion got a preset ability al level 1 and then would get 3 more as he levels up. This would especially work if we were to include negative abilities to companions while making them stronger in other manner.
 
Reminder for folks to vote on their thoughts here as I'll be closing this poll soon.  Right now it looks like we'll have a combination of choices 4 & 5.  The option to choose a class path for a companion with the additional option to reset that class to a different one via emblems.  I will make the initial choice fairly limited.  The choice to have emblems included will remove the need to keep class A balanced with class B when you wish to choose a different path.

Class "Kits" (I'll use the kit term since class is already used for infantry, ranged or cavalry) will be limited to three abilities.  What kits would you like to see?  I'm also planning on reducing the level unlocks from 5, 12 & 20 to 4, 9 & 14 to make these abilities more immediately useful.

Examples with cost estimates for reference:
Scholar (3 emblems)
[4] Quick Study
[9] Engineer
[14] Administrator

Battlefield Captain (4 emblems)
[4] Inspiring
[9] Tactician
[14] Commanding Presence

Scout (1 emblem)
[4] Hunter
[9] Trailblazer
[14] Stealthy
Click to expand...
 
Love those kits and the level change to make them more quickly accessible.

I trust there will be standard kits for Gaoler,  Quartermaster and Provisioner?  Doctor/Medic too would help a lot in setting up that perfect party, but then again I guess the Scholar kit covers that pretty well.
 
May I ask how many total you have come up with or shall that be a surprise? [Insert awesome! emoticon here cause I don't know the shortcuts]
 
TheMainMethod said:
May I ask how many total you have come up with or shall that be a surprise? [Insert awesome! emoticon here cause I don't know the shortcuts]
Click to expand...
14 that are planned with 2 other partial ones needing a final ability or two created to fit them.

Not that a name can tell everything, but...
Scholar - Artimenner, Jeremus
Battlefield Captain - Lezalit
Scout - Borcha, Deshavi
Assassin - Klethi
Berserker - Matheld
Advisor - Ymira
Knight - Alayen
Merchant - Marnid
Camp Supporter - Katrin
Bandit - Rolf
Soldier - Bunduk, Firentis
Archer - Nissa
Bard - Nizar
Support Captain
Guard Captain
Skirmisher

That's the general breakdown so far.  I tried to keep in mind the circles of relation so that each "group" of companions gets an even mix of base usefulness.
 
Have the 3 abilities they have now plus an extra one that you unlock by making them happy. They have a neutral attitude of 0, to which you add +1 if their favourite buddy is in the team and subtract -1 if one of their nemesis are in the team. If their attitude is +1 you get the extra ability.

Also (I feel I might not be being objective on this matter though) replace the companion interactions "scheme" of native with a different one: maybe you can have 1 companion for every party role + 1 extra companion for every 2 charisma you have. This way we would pick our team based on the abilities they have and also on who they like/dislike, without the restrictions that the original system carries with it (personally I'm tired of having to go around with the same team composition all the time)
 
Misterpiece said:
Have the 3 abilities they have now plus an extra one that you unlock by making them happy. They have a neutral attitude of 0, to which you add +1 if their favourite buddy is in the team and subtract -1 if one of their nemesis are in the team. If their attitude is +1 you get the extra ability.

Also (I feel I might not be being objective on this matter though) replace the companion interactions "scheme" of native with a different one: maybe you can have 1 companion for every party role + 1 extra companion for every 2 charisma you have. This way we would pick our team based on the abilities they have and also on who they like/dislike, without the restrictions that the original system carries with it (personally I'm tired of having to go around with the same team composition all the time)
Click to expand...

I sympathize. I think to your end it would make more sense to base it on Leadership than Charisma. After all, people can like you and still hate each other. Leadership is what gets them to follow you despite hating each other.

I'm often disappointed in companions in Warband. For one, they're just too weak for too long. They absolutely do turn into powerhouse units, but not until long after I'm running armies numbering in the hundreds, and their contributions become relatively insignificant. This has been balanced because they are cheap and immortal, but maybe they shouldn't be so cheap. I would have [some] companions start much stronger, and require payment just like any other soldier, plus a premium. Maybe Rolf and Matheld begin on par with T6, and cost hundreds per week in upkeep. You lose some customization, but is anybody really kitting out Mattheld to be a doctor, or Rolf to be a Quartermaster? We really only have the illusion of choice here, made even more pronounced with the three pre-determined abilities. Katrin will never be a master horse archer, no matter what her middle school counselor told her. Just like the rest of us, she can dream big, but at the end of the day she's serving stew to ungrateful peasants.

 
Daeghen said:
Misterpiece said:
Have the 3 abilities they have now plus an extra one that you unlock by making them happy. They have a neutral attitude of 0, to which you add +1 if their favourite buddy is in the team and subtract -1 if one of their nemesis are in the team. If their attitude is +1 you get the extra ability.

Also (I feel I might not be being objective on this matter though) replace the companion interactions "scheme" of native with a different one: maybe you can have 1 companion for every party role + 1 extra companion for every 2 charisma you have. This way we would pick our team based on the abilities they have and also on who they like/dislike, without the restrictions that the original system carries with it (personally I'm tired of having to go around with the same team composition all the time)
Click to expand...

I sympathize. I think to your end it would make more sense to base it on Leadership than Charisma. After all, people can like you and still hate each other. Leadership is what gets them to follow you despite hating each other.

I'm often disappointed in companions in Warband. For one, they're just too weak for too long. They absolutely do turn into powerhouse units, but not until long after I'm running armies numbering in the hundreds, and their contributions become relatively insignificant. This has been balanced because they are cheap and immortal, but maybe they shouldn't be so cheap. I would have [some] companions start much stronger, and require payment just like any other soldier, plus a premium. Maybe Rolf and Matheld begin on par with T6, and cost hundreds per week in upkeep. You lose some customization, but is anybody really kitting out Mattheld to be a doctor, or Rolf to be a Quartermaster? We really only have the illusion of choice here, made even more pronounced with the three pre-determined abilities. Katrin will never be a master horse archer, no matter what her middle school counselor told her. Just like the rest of us, she can dream big, but at the end of the day she's serving stew to ungrateful peasants.
Click to expand...
I find Silverstag and other modules that give near maximum skill levels to regular troops actually make it worse. If the nameless mook huscarl who can be recruited by the hundreds had 6 power strike, Matheld could at least outshine them, after a serious grind. I feel the named characters: lords, companions and the player, should feel extraordinary. Consider it like a history book, they are the people whose names we know centuries after the actual events. Though it might also be too easy to recruit many elite troops, which steal the thunder of combat companions.
 
You can still import them from previous games. A bit fiddly, but keeps all the customization. Problem with making combat customization is that they may or may not fit player's idea. Do you want an offensive unit with a two-handed sword? Or make that a polearm? Or defensive with sword and shield, perhaps some throwing spears?
 
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