Author Topic: Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.  (Read 38651 times)

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Fietta

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Re: Gamescon - Combat?? - full thoughts
« Reply #210 on: August 19, 2015, 06:19:11 PM »
'I never claimed to know more than him about sword fighting in real life, although as he himself said, he doesn't play many games and he doesn't play much Warband, so ultimately I have a far greater plethora of understanding regarding the game and its mechanics than he does. I didn't ask you what you think his opinion was, I couldn't care less what he thinks, I wanted to know what you think.'


You can play M&B for 30 minutes and know the combat and how it works. To be honest, he also said he plays it A LOT. If that man is so confident of knowing the combat, let him try :P
 

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Re: Gamescon - Combat?? - full thoughts
« Reply #211 on: August 19, 2015, 06:28:13 PM »
I never claimed to know more than him about sword fighting in real life, although as he himself said, he doesn't play many games and he doesn't play much Warband, so ultimately I have a far greater plethora of understanding regarding the game and its mechanics than he does.
Any developer can explain him engine and combat mechanics and in about hour-two he will have greater understanding than any veteran, its not the problem. One problem is that TW don't want to change combat, to let it evolve.

I've read all of the pages on this thread, however all you've said so far is "the combat is clunky and unrealistic", what I want to know is, how do you want to fix this? Remove feinting? Slower swings? You haven't stated how you would solve this issue yet.
Orly ? Here is just most simple and obvious change to hitboxes(and most needed) - http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,337148.msg8009150.html#msg8009150
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,337148.msg8008474.html#msg8008474

What do fanboys post on this ?
Quote
Almost no one would use axes if their hit boxes are changed like that.
Pffft   :lol:
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 06:34:28 PM by Partizan_Rusi »

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Re: Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.
« Reply #212 on: August 19, 2015, 06:52:52 PM »
You do have some good points Partizan, but they are poorly brought up and argued. Your posts are toxic, too. Instead of calling people "fanboys" and "tryhards", why not actually argue their points in their post in a collected manner? And don't be so prejudiced towards the devs either, bring up some concrete and well defended points about changing the combat system. Yeah, some people here did post some stupid stuff, but be the bigger man instead of reverting to your immature insults.

Kappa. That video is about combat. Maybe it's because my second language is English, or it's because I'm deaf.

What's your first language, Cockney?  :lol:

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Re: Gamescon - Combat?? - full thoughts
« Reply #213 on: August 20, 2015, 11:38:22 AM »
'I never claimed to know more than him about sword fighting in real life, although as he himself said, he doesn't play many games and he doesn't play much Warband, so ultimately I have a far greater plethora of understanding regarding the game and its mechanics than he does. I didn't ask you what you think his opinion was, I couldn't care less what he thinks, I wanted to know what you think.'


You can play M&B for 30 minutes and know the combat and how it works. To be honest, he also said he plays it A LOT. If that man is so confident of knowing the combat, let him try :P

You definitely cannot understand the combat of Warband in 30 minutes, someone can say to you "Left click is attack, right click is block, E is kick, you can chamber attacks by attacking into their swing, you can feint by cancelling your swing with right click, you don't need to do directional blocking when you have a shield, you can swing faster by looking down and getting the right angle, there is a speed modifier on your attacks so if you are mounted and moving fast you do much more damage, different classes have different stats as do the different factions - infantry are faster than archers and cavalry and they do more damage however the extent of their damage boost varies from faction to faction, headshots with bows do more damage and usually one hit, you can couch your lance to do a lot of extra damage and if you are moving fast it is usually a one hit, different weapons have different speeds as well as different damage values and different reach - a military cleaver is shorter and slower than a regular sword but it has a lot of extra damage."

I've probably forgot a lot of things because these are just off the top of my head, but these are all basic things that while somebody can just tell you them, that doesn't mean you understand how to do them or when you should use them. You can only truly understand a mechanic when you yourself can do it and you know the different scenarios in which you should use it as well as when you shouldn't. You usually learn when to use it by using it at the wrong time and dying, then you know not to use it in that situation, and after many hundreds of hours you understand the pros and cons of a complicated mechanic and when and when not to use it.


Fietta

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Re: Gamescon - Combat?? - full thoughts
« Reply #214 on: August 20, 2015, 11:45:28 AM »
'I never claimed to know more than him about sword fighting in real life, although as he himself said, he doesn't play many games and he doesn't play much Warband, so ultimately I have a far greater plethora of understanding regarding the game and its mechanics than he does. I didn't ask you what you think his opinion was, I couldn't care less what he thinks, I wanted to know what you think.'


You can play M&B for 30 minutes and know the combat and how it works. To be honest, he also said he plays it A LOT. If that man is so confident of knowing the combat, let him try :P

You definitely cannot understand the combat of Warband in 30 minutes, someone can say to you "Left click is attack, right click is block, E is kick, you can chamber attacks by attacking into their swing, you can feint by cancelling your swing with right click, you don't need to do directional blocking when you have a shield, you can swing faster by looking down and getting the right angle, there is a speed modifier on your attacks so if you are mounted and moving fast you do much more damage, different classes have different stats as do the different factions - infantry are faster than archers and cavalry and they do more damage however the extent of their damage boost varies from faction to faction, headshots with bows do more damage and usually one hit, you can couch your lance to do a lot of extra damage and if you are moving fast it is usually a one hit, different weapons have different speeds as well as different damage values and different reach - a military cleaver is shorter and slower than a regular sword but it has a lot of extra damage."

I've probably forgot a lot of things because these are just off the top of my head, but these are all basic things that while somebody can just tell you them, that doesn't mean you understand how to do them or when you should use them. You can only truly understand a mechanic when you yourself can do it and you know the different scenarios in which you should use it as well as when you shouldn't. You usually learn when to use it by using it at the wrong time and dying, then you know not to use it in that situation, and after many hundreds of hours you understand the pros and cons of a complicated mechanic and when and when not to use it.

You as a person may not have the 'skill' to do these mechanics, duel anyone, it then shows. How do you know if this man isn't someone who's played since 2011 and is famous but we don't know? Kappa.
 

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Re: Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.
« Reply #215 on: August 20, 2015, 10:43:01 PM »
You do have some good points Partizan, but they are poorly brought up and argued. Your posts are toxic, too. Instead of calling people "fanboys" and "tryhards", why not actually argue their points in their post in a collected manner?
Calling things by their names and why not. It doesn't worth to even reply or argue sometimes, they just keep flooding your posts with their "consciousness" no matter how invalid their points are. Devs are ignorant of this thread and of other one, maybe they just DGAF :]  At least I had good laughs from some posts, my favorite part when - "wooden shaft hitting almost as much as head"  :lol:
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 10:49:53 PM by Partizan_Rusi »

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Re: Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.
« Reply #216 on: August 20, 2015, 11:52:15 PM »
Keep same combat, get gud at the game.


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Re: Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.
« Reply #217 on: August 21, 2015, 12:06:24 AM »
You do have some good points Partizan, but they are poorly brought up and argued. Your posts are toxic, too. Instead of calling people "fanboys" and "tryhards", why not actually argue their points in their post in a collected manner?
Calling things by their names and why not. It doesn't worth to even reply or argue sometimes, they just keep flooding your posts with their "consciousness" no matter how invalid their points are. Devs are ignorant of this thread and of other one, maybe they just DGAF :]  At least I had good laughs from some posts, my favorite part when - "wooden shaft hitting almost as much as head"  :lol:

Why not explain how their posts are so "invalid"? Because I dont see it  :ohdear:

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Re: Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.
« Reply #218 on: August 21, 2015, 03:09:10 AM »
You do have some good points Partizan, but they are poorly brought up and argued. Your posts are toxic, too. Instead of calling people "fanboys" and "tryhards", why not actually argue their points in their post in a collected manner?
Calling things by their names and why not. It doesn't worth to even reply or argue sometimes, they just keep flooding your posts with their "consciousness" no matter how invalid their points are. Devs are ignorant of this thread and of other one, maybe they just DGAF :]  At least I had good laughs from some posts, my favorite part when - "wooden shaft hitting almost as much as head"  :lol:

Why not explain how their posts are so "invalid"? Because I dont see it  :ohdear:
because he can't
Quit gaming 6 months ago. Bought a new car, I have an amazing new girlfriend, I make a shitload of money and I'm buying a house this spring. I party every weekend, I'm never home. I'm enjoying life. Do yourselves a favor. Stop trying to make gaming a career. It's cringe as ****

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Re: Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.
« Reply #219 on: August 21, 2015, 05:18:24 AM »
It doesn't worth to even reply or argue sometimes, they just keep flooding your posts with their "consciousness" no matter how invalid their points are.

Not trying to flood you with my consciousness, but

Matt still knows more than any of you about combat, maybe he thinks M&B need new combat system too :] Who knows, go ask him.

Don't think he would -- the first thing he says in that video you linked is "I get asked a lot of the time about which computer games have good combat systems. I am not qualified to answer that unfortunately... However the one game I do play fairly regularly is Mount&Blade Warband", apparently because "it has fundamental similarities to real fighting." And I think that is pretty interesting to hear coming from a guy who studies historical combat, but that's not what we're talking about. We are talking about what makes a good combat system in a video game, and he says up-front he knows basically nothing about that (but then offers to help design one, lol). 

IMO hand to hand combat in video games is never going to be that "realistic" until you can control your character's movements directly with your brain... until then, to be both "good" and "realistic" we are gonna have to settle for an abstraction of real combat instead. For example, having a larger hitbox for the blade of a 2h axe is a simplification of adjusting your grip in real life. Just guessing, but I think they were actually planning to have better adjustable grips at first (which is why you can hit X to change it slightly on certain axes) but it wasn't a good fit with the current engine so they went for the easier fix. Definitely agree with you it looks bad and there are much better ways to do it, but if I was working on MB I would rather have a finished game than a highly sophisticated custom-built axe gripping engine.

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Re: Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.
« Reply #220 on: August 21, 2015, 08:44:24 AM »

Why not explain how their posts are so "invalid"? Because I dont see it  :ohdear:
because he can't
Do you really think I must explain to you why obvious bullshit is invalid ? Well, you are wrong, use your own brain, I don't owe you anything.
Example :
If you really think axes killing with wooden shafts is ok then you need help from specialists in white coats  :lol:
Long pole weapons must do full damage only with weapons head, otherwise its just cheesy weapon acting like two meters 2h Sword. Pole weapons usually gets balanced around the fact that its harder to land good hit with them so devs usually make them "heavy-hitting" weapons and there is no point if its acting like two meter sword. Same goes to long axes.
Keep same combat
:lol:
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 08:54:14 AM by Partizan_Rusi »

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Re: Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.
« Reply #221 on: August 21, 2015, 09:05:09 AM »
Combat system where one has to adjust the grip (of an axe) during the fight, or try to keep the distance, so that the opponent is on that small range of the axe's blade is just too complicated. This is a video game we're talking about, not a medieval simulator.

I prefer the Warband combat, it's fun. Fun > Realism.
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Re: Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.
« Reply #222 on: August 21, 2015, 10:45:41 AM »
I prefer the Warband combat, it's fun. Fun > Realism.
Warband combat is the perfect compromise between realism and fun in my opinion :party:

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Re: Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.
« Reply #223 on: August 21, 2015, 11:19:19 AM »
He/she didn't say that.
He/she said that fun beats realism.

And now I feel like a robot.

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Re: Gamescom - Combat?? - Full Thoughts.
« Reply #224 on: August 21, 2015, 11:37:16 AM »
I prefer the Warband combat, it's fun. Fun > Realism.
Warband combat is the perfect compromise between realism and fun in my opinion :party:
I agree to an extent. It's not perfect, but it's close.

He/she didn't say that.
He/she said that fun beats realism.

And now I feel like a robot.
Looks like I got it confused.
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