trot888 said:
Hmm, I do understand where you're coming from, although, since both M and Cleric's individual skill is very high, they also work well as a duo, although they don't become 'better'. Brian and Thorr are also good individuals but as a duo they stand out and can pretty much 2v2 anyone and win, whilst if they both 1v1ed they'd lose. Arni and Rempica is the same as Cleric and M. Extremely high individual skill so they're good in a duo. In terms of team-play. Brian and thorr stand out more than anyone else. Sure M&Cleric have won all of these WNLs etc but that's AE with a extremely high individual skill and obviously the other 6 players support. Brian and Thorr aren't in Super top clans such as AE/KURWA and if they were they'd probably play so much better than any other duo. Scar, don't start placing trophies on the table, it doesn't really work like that. AE have won them matches, not just M&Cleric as a duo who 'carried' the team, because they didn't. Overall Brian and Thorr as a duo stands out.
So there are a couple of points that really annoy me when you discuss players here in the community. Before I start going into detail, I want to make it clear that I consider everyone single one of these six players to be an absolut top tier player. No doubt.
But, for me personally, calling someone the best is something you should do when he has won something. It doesn't make any sense to me to sit there and claim you are the best when you haven't proven it. So when you are making these "All Time Best Players" lists, be fair and take every detail into account, and not just the ones you like to think about.
You bring the argument that Brian & Thorr stand out much more than M & Cleric. Of course they do, simply because they play with players that are generally much less skilled than them. M and Cleric play with guys like Peter and LeRoux, so obviously they will have a much harder time to really stand out. I could play on Aquila and I would stand out a lot more than I am in AE at the moment (if I ever stood out lol).
Next question, how do you come to the conclusion that they would play much better than any other duo if they were on AE or KURWA? You are just assuming that out of nowhere, without any obvious reasoning behind it.
Napoleon also made the point that these wins are in 8v8. Yes they are, but if you don't want to count them, what else is evidance then? The 3v3 thing would probably be the closest thing. LAP beat Brian, Thorr and Tobi, and then got beaten by Sons of Baggo. I suppose that is not valid either, so what else do you want to take as evidance?
Last but not least, I don't understand why you quote M. He is bascially saying that it is a pure popularity contest, and that players get their friends and fanboys to vote. I don't think that supports your points.
EDIT: Basing these ratings on improvements is just stupid, sorry. In what world do you define someone as the best player just upon his improvements? What, you just look at what everyone single of these players have accomplished and that's it. Otherwise you might aswell say DIJN is the best infantry, because is he improving faster than anyone else. lol idk.
Look, this is what you're I guess not understanding. It's looking at play, too be honest there's isn't no 'best duo'. Aslong as you have high individual skill and communication, I don't even see why 'best duo' lists exists. There's really no evidence to show that Cleric & M, Arni & Rempica, Brian & Thorr are even good duos. 8v8 scrims has nothing to do with duos. 3v3 also has NOTHING to do with duos. So you prove good points, but from what I've seen in live-streams, Refereeing and all sorts, Brian and Thorr seems to stand out. No one is a good duo as all it relies on is heavy individual knowledge, skill and good communication.
