I'd no idea about what steam thought towards WSE, doesn't make much sense to me when put like that, a cheat program? I guess because it changes some of the game code they don't support it then, weird. There are cheat programs written into the game itself already whats the big deal. I like Perisno a lot because of its features and fantasy and all the extra things included but I can see how from a different perspective of trying to get new things to work they may just get in the way at times. Have you thought about possibly trying Floris as a base as it has so many things in it already and could truly be brought to life by the projects you have in mind. Floris with some fantasy mixed in, not sure If there is already something like that but that would raise some eyebrows I would imagine.
Suggestion re Phosphor.
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Hey GS is it true you working with legacy feature?
I like your mods and i tought i post idea.
Is it hard to add new marriage system or something becouse i realy dont want to become vassal, but its impossible to get married if you are not vassal. So i tought would be nice to ask marry with your companions or marry with some peasant ( village woman) and get negative right to rule. So player can be self made man. Or just ability to seduce or kidnap some lord daughter to get married
I like your mods and i tought i post idea.
Is it hard to add new marriage system or something becouse i realy dont want to become vassal, but its impossible to get married if you are not vassal. So i tought would be nice to ask marry with your companions or marry with some peasant ( village woman) and get negative right to rule. So player can be self made man. Or just ability to seduce or kidnap some lord daughter to get married
zincra said:
I Need to finish orphans support to allow to bypass normal father guardian check and go to marriage with less dowry considerations. There are many side issues
the marriage cut scene mission needs father somewhat town castle is her home
What is her home for poetry meetings
Should she be a town walker in daylight and how to dress her partly solved now. GS
Teggs said:gsanders said:
What's this? Should we be checking her teeth?
True. If she was a street walker by night, her non-existant dowry might still be too high a price to pay...
unless of course Religion adds a "cure disease" component, which may yet happen "someday" (TM)
didnt find where to post this. GS i see you are good at programming/modding maybe you can answer this. Is it possible to make multi tier vassal system for warband. Like King vassals are dukes maybe few counts, and Dukes have they own vassals. So if Duke rebells he/she have more power?
zincra said:
Technically it's possible but it would clash, some, with Diplomacy module, and everything that adds to diplomacy, such as Kaos kit, which I've considered adding next month. Originally I estimated 3 days to get Kaos political kit integrated but looking it over carefully I have to double that. It's an all week project, when I already have plenty of all week projects lined up.
If the duke rebels he keeps some lords? Except they'd have to agree to rebel, and likely be hung as rebels if the duke rebelling lost. This is the real reason why it didn't happen much in history. Everyone loves a winner, and nothing smells of success as already BEING the king. But if you kicked the kings butt several times and easily walked on his armies, that would change quickly. SIlverstag has a diplomacy modification which I was looking at that allows ALL of a kings lords to cross over to you in one shot IF you defeat the king, take him prisoner, AND have more land than he has at that instance, according to their arcane way of weighing the value of properties. There is still a random element, but at least its a possible outcome. As the source to Silverstag is open and I've quite a bit of time in the last month towards building the structure to plug bits and pieces of that fine mod into Phosphor (its not exactly drag and drop, really its not)... I expect that to be an early target for mid August.
In other news I'm almost ready to release a taste of something working, err Phosphor v20 r4. I got the encumbrance code working, in part by modifying Silverstag combat enhancements, but although I can modify {riding, horse archery, power draw, athletics, and shield} skills according to weight carried and save the modified values elsewhere (to not overwrite the original values, which could otherwise glitch stats if people swap armor a lot)... well, I can save it, I can browse it, I can see it change dodge in combat, but all the other in-combat changes still refer to the original not the second modified set and so that's the next tedious set of changes. I'd talk about it more in dev blog but that's so huge now I figured I'd mention it somewhere else. It's hot and we're (wife and I) all a little wiped out from walking around (I left the lights on last week when I parked the car, we just now noticed, but is a hard to start model - the battery is in the trunk and covered by all my camping gear and a folded bicycle... and the mechanic that can solve the issue is away from town till Monday so we're on foot in the sun; excuses, excuses...).
Tomorrow, most likely after lunch my time. Hopefully.
- GS
Now *HERE* is a fine conundrum:
I wanted to store all the changes to stats and skills from encumbrances separately from those stats, simply so that when companions, your spouse, and yourself assign new points spent the points go to base and not modified / "effective" stats. Otherwise every time your character or companions/spouse change gear the weight changes, encumbrance changes, and the modifiers change, leading to either something that could be glitched into raising stats unexpectedly or difficult to detect whether changes were from leveling and a player decision to add a point someplace, instead of just assuming the last original values should be restored, always, to find the "native" value. So I have this working setup, that writes modified values someplace safe and they make it through a save game, I can view the values saved, I can see it adjusted the values the way I asked...
EXCEPT
except the game engine never once actually ASKS, in script, for the values. Instead it just grabs them silently, from native, so I have to adjust native's
values (Silverstag chose to do this). This works, in my opinion, excellent for TROOPS and poorly for companions, the player, and the player's spouse -- all of whom can and will undergo constant changes in stats, level, gear, and resulting encumbrance changes.
Probably the golden compromise has to be this:
TROOPS, who don't change gear (there is some variation in what they can equip but I've already taken that into account), can go ahead and have the changes written on top of their native stats. This lets Mel's perisno maidens have some extra shield and athletics, gimps slightly some cavalry archers, and makes having really light gear really useful. Higher athletics then means faster foot movement, heavily burdened troops move slowly or are clumsier riding, all as should be. But for example Perisno .8 custom troops could change often -- so they need to be handled as "heroes", even though they are hired as a group.
Their exceedingly high cost is countered by whatever you assign one of them, all of them get at the same time. I kind of think there should be 6-7 separate "custom troops" reserved to have some variety in their kitting, but that's a separate issue. The issue stands that companions either shouldn't participate in the encumbrance == changes to stats issue or it should be a limited change like encumbrance affects dodge (THIS I can do, as it happens outside the game engine and under script control) for heroes (and the player, and his/her spouse, and enemy lords, and named enemies, etc).
I suppose I could even do some heroes if I could guarantee they'd never join the player party as companions, but that's really a lot of checking.
So here's a compromise:
Encumbrance has a wide range of influences FOR TROOPS
Encumbrance ONLY affects you and your companions for DODGE, which is checking modified athletics.
Rigale sprint (O key during combat, "O" as in Oscar) is one way to boost native athletics for a few seconds, but does not help dodge.
So far this seems decent enough to me...
Martial arts and other scripted skills, that are outside the Warband engine, can use hero "effective skills", but that's a Pho v20 r5 problem.
For now I have to change my approach for hero class (companions, lords, marryable kingdom ladies, princesses, pretenders, named quest npcs that might join your party, and of course the Player - the most special hero class entity in "troops". So I suppose for ordinary grunts I'm ready to release v20 r4 but for hero class I have to make some changes, which I'll sleep on overnight. I probably will toss and turn more than usual tonight, not simply because its 31 C outside tonight. Last night was a blue moon, so not much can top that...
Worse case: more realistic troops, some buffs for those nearly naked slaves, some minuses for overly geared high tiers (who were already Uber).
Mostly they look to stay uber; looking them over they turned out well. V20 r5 can re-do item stats and pricing, bring down some armors, and otherwise smooth over what I'd say was uneven item stats from Persno .7-ish series. The values things have now are mostly Perisno, and I didn't decide any of them.
Those sorts of decisions were generally taken away from me for Perisno; that's why Phosphor is in it's own container. I can, if I had time, change anything.
*If I had time*.
Hell I can barely breathe. Time is something I have less of each day...
But that's not your problem. It just means I need to get more done with the time I have. And I think the path is clear. So that's all that needs saying.
It's gonna be a great day tomorrow, "one of many"...
- GS
I wanted to store all the changes to stats and skills from encumbrances separately from those stats, simply so that when companions, your spouse, and yourself assign new points spent the points go to base and not modified / "effective" stats. Otherwise every time your character or companions/spouse change gear the weight changes, encumbrance changes, and the modifiers change, leading to either something that could be glitched into raising stats unexpectedly or difficult to detect whether changes were from leveling and a player decision to add a point someplace, instead of just assuming the last original values should be restored, always, to find the "native" value. So I have this working setup, that writes modified values someplace safe and they make it through a save game, I can view the values saved, I can see it adjusted the values the way I asked...
EXCEPT
except the game engine never once actually ASKS, in script, for the values. Instead it just grabs them silently, from native, so I have to adjust native's
values (Silverstag chose to do this). This works, in my opinion, excellent for TROOPS and poorly for companions, the player, and the player's spouse -- all of whom can and will undergo constant changes in stats, level, gear, and resulting encumbrance changes.
Probably the golden compromise has to be this:
TROOPS, who don't change gear (there is some variation in what they can equip but I've already taken that into account), can go ahead and have the changes written on top of their native stats. This lets Mel's perisno maidens have some extra shield and athletics, gimps slightly some cavalry archers, and makes having really light gear really useful. Higher athletics then means faster foot movement, heavily burdened troops move slowly or are clumsier riding, all as should be. But for example Perisno .8 custom troops could change often -- so they need to be handled as "heroes", even though they are hired as a group.
Their exceedingly high cost is countered by whatever you assign one of them, all of them get at the same time. I kind of think there should be 6-7 separate "custom troops" reserved to have some variety in their kitting, but that's a separate issue. The issue stands that companions either shouldn't participate in the encumbrance == changes to stats issue or it should be a limited change like encumbrance affects dodge (THIS I can do, as it happens outside the game engine and under script control) for heroes (and the player, and his/her spouse, and enemy lords, and named enemies, etc).
I suppose I could even do some heroes if I could guarantee they'd never join the player party as companions, but that's really a lot of checking.
So here's a compromise:
Encumbrance has a wide range of influences FOR TROOPS
Encumbrance ONLY affects you and your companions for DODGE, which is checking modified athletics.
Rigale sprint (O key during combat, "O" as in Oscar) is one way to boost native athletics for a few seconds, but does not help dodge.
So far this seems decent enough to me...
Martial arts and other scripted skills, that are outside the Warband engine, can use hero "effective skills", but that's a Pho v20 r5 problem.
For now I have to change my approach for hero class (companions, lords, marryable kingdom ladies, princesses, pretenders, named quest npcs that might join your party, and of course the Player - the most special hero class entity in "troops". So I suppose for ordinary grunts I'm ready to release v20 r4 but for hero class I have to make some changes, which I'll sleep on overnight. I probably will toss and turn more than usual tonight, not simply because its 31 C outside tonight. Last night was a blue moon, so not much can top that...
Worse case: more realistic troops, some buffs for those nearly naked slaves, some minuses for overly geared high tiers (who were already Uber).
Mostly they look to stay uber; looking them over they turned out well. V20 r5 can re-do item stats and pricing, bring down some armors, and otherwise smooth over what I'd say was uneven item stats from Persno .7-ish series. The values things have now are mostly Perisno, and I didn't decide any of them.
Those sorts of decisions were generally taken away from me for Perisno; that's why Phosphor is in it's own container. I can, if I had time, change anything.
*If I had time*.
Hell I can barely breathe. Time is something I have less of each day...
But that's not your problem. It just means I need to get more done with the time I have. And I think the path is clear. So that's all that needs saying.
It's gonna be a great day tomorrow, "one of many"...
- GS
Thanks for answer, i realy didnt suggested to add it just i was curious is it possible. Oh nice to hear you intend to add chaos and silverstag features. You are realy awsome. First you merged 2 best mods rigale and perisno and now you itend to add features from other good mods
do we need WSE for new verson or not?
do we need WSE for new verson or not?
zincra said:Thanks for answer, i realy didnt suggested to add it just i was curious is it possible. Oh nice to hear you intend to add chaos and silverstag features. You are realy awsome. First you merged 2 best mods rigale and perisno and now you itend to add features from other good mods
do we need WSE for new verson or not?
Not at all... I am carefully avoiding WSE for now, so it makes it slower to merge Silverstag. I can't just drop each plug in I have to lift each and every script and routine to edit out the WSE calls. It's a process made more infuriating by the fact WSE has some desirable calls that are missing from normal Warband operations; I have to choose to abandon those capabilities altogether if I want maximum ease of setup for players. I find WSE a major drag to install -- if you don't have v1.153 / 1.166 installed, you can't run WSE. If you update Warband with a fresher version, which happens often with steam, then you lose WSE capability. You have to (or I have to) then reinstall 1.153 so that it was always the last Warband installed; I can have 2-3 paths with different warbands, but the LAST one installed has to be the one WSE needs to confirm its in the right environment. I find that limitation too much presumption and therefore would rather not use WSE than force everyone to abandon their other mods OR go through a cryptic 2-to-3 installs every time Warband gets yet another update I didn't ask for. Once in a while the updates have something useful, usually lesser WSE features made formally doable within the Warband modding system, such as happened for v1.161.
I now use v1.161 calls, for encumbrance checking, so I'm not sure it will run in 1.158 or 1.153 anymore.
- GS
The WSE packaged with Silverstag can be used with any version of Warband from 1.153+. It includes an engine copy of 1.153 that it will force to load instead of your steam copy if it is a later version. That was a modification that cmpxchg8bit made back in WSE 3.1.5 when he was going to end support for the project so that mods using it wouldn't be marooned at older versions of the game.gsanders said:
The new WSE being built (that uses 1.166) I can't say for sure if it does that, but it may.
So a player can use a 1.166 copy of Warband from Steam for mods that use that version and use the WSE loader to run WSE based mods (all of which are 1.153 based) as well.
GS What you think about regiment system, years ago if i played Sword of Damocles there were intresting system wheer player can make regiment, from special troop to lead it and follow playerlike adional army, And give it troops and commands. I tought something similar would be in Phosphor, but would be with heroes. And their troop wages and party sixe would be tied to Playerd Leadersip skill, And may be have more than one regiment almost like hired mercanery groups. Like lvl 5 leadership you can have one regiment and lvl 8 you can have 2 of them. It just a tought you to consider, not real suggestion, i know you have alot of work to do with your magic system and other features.
Hmm I'm a little busy to think of adding this. That looks like it would use the code for a patrol from diplomacy.
We already have 2-3 variations of that; the difference you propose is a) simply to customize the troops [or maybe b) mix of troops].
A) Customized troops (that can change their gear constantly) messes with my encumbrance and resistance checks; I do that at game start and it may already be adding to significant delays at game start. I'd hate to have to re-do that constantly (like every battle) to catch any changes you made since the last time I checked troops.
B) mix of troops -- this is acceptable to me. Define your own patrol type and get a calculated bill for those troops - hiring at some sort of added cost because they weren't rounded up normally, and then the normal costs for guys you hire plus maybe some 15-35% since they aren't against your leadership limits.
I'd much more prefer to waste time in making "troops" that arent troops at all, but monsters that attack from the spirit world,
attack dogs, poison snakes, spiders and so on. Except I'm not sure I can get decent art for any of that.
Or for that matter, new troops (or existing ones remade) for heals and other effects in combat, casting without being told to by you. This would help all the people complaining on Perisno about elves have something else to worry about...
We already have 2-3 variations of that; the difference you propose is a) simply to customize the troops [or maybe b) mix of troops].
A) Customized troops (that can change their gear constantly) messes with my encumbrance and resistance checks; I do that at game start and it may already be adding to significant delays at game start. I'd hate to have to re-do that constantly (like every battle) to catch any changes you made since the last time I checked troops.
B) mix of troops -- this is acceptable to me. Define your own patrol type and get a calculated bill for those troops - hiring at some sort of added cost because they weren't rounded up normally, and then the normal costs for guys you hire plus maybe some 15-35% since they aren't against your leadership limits.
I'd much more prefer to waste time in making "troops" that arent troops at all, but monsters that attack from the spirit world,
attack dogs, poison snakes, spiders and so on. Except I'm not sure I can get decent art for any of that.
Or for that matter, new troops (or existing ones remade) for heals and other effects in combat, casting without being told to by you. This would help all the people complaining on Perisno about elves have something else to worry about...
GS: In regards to the Regiment system zincra mentioned previously, I would sincerely suggest you take a look at it yourself. Sword of Damocles has its ups and downs as a mod, but regiments in it are rather incredible. If you happen to decide to, it would take no longer than simply downloading the mod and launching into a game; by default new characters start with an army capable of creating a regiment.
I'm not suggesting you pull the system verbatim from SoD; in some ways I don't really feel it would fit in Phosphor/Perisno as is. However, the system is fairly unique and I suspect it would serve to help flesh out the world the way you seem to be trying, even if you simply take a look at consider the ramifications of implementing your own redesign. While I have no idea if it's at all connected to the Diplomacy mod, it does seem to stand rather distant from it. Or maybe the name "Diplomacy" is no longer as apt as it used to be.
Also, don't take this as some sort of "plz plz plz i neeeeed it" demand. While I enjoy the regimental system of SoD, it's hardly something I'd consider a necessity for Phosphor; I simply mean to point you toward another spin on things that you might enjoy considering.
I'm not suggesting you pull the system verbatim from SoD; in some ways I don't really feel it would fit in Phosphor/Perisno as is. However, the system is fairly unique and I suspect it would serve to help flesh out the world the way you seem to be trying, even if you simply take a look at consider the ramifications of implementing your own redesign. While I have no idea if it's at all connected to the Diplomacy mod, it does seem to stand rather distant from it. Or maybe the name "Diplomacy" is no longer as apt as it used to be.
Also, don't take this as some sort of "plz plz plz i neeeeed it" demand. While I enjoy the regimental system of SoD, it's hardly something I'd consider a necessity for Phosphor; I simply mean to point you toward another spin on things that you might enjoy considering.
