Author Topic: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?  (Read 196436 times)

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Piédalf

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2015, 12:31:19 PM »
Only beda dislikes her

Lohi-soturi

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2015, 07:46:48 PM »

I'm pretty sure you missed Solveig: she is nowhere in your list.

That topic is very important with reforged

No, I didn't. If you take a look at the Ivan Khan's relationships information you'll notice that nobody likes Solveig and she is hated by three. Now how likely you think it is that a person like that is going to show up in the largest stable parties listing?

As a matter of fact: even if she  is not present in the 8 member strictly stable parties,  she is present at one of  9 member stable parties, albeit it's one with relatively many members with morale penalties. I know that because I am using that exact  party configuration in my own game at the moment. (Solveig is one my favorite companions.)

Piédalf

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2015, 12:27:58 AM »

I'm pretty sure you missed Solveig: she is nowhere in your list.

That topic is very important with reforged

No, I didn't. If you take a look at the Ivan Khan's relationships information you'll notice that nobody likes Solveig and she is hated by three. Now how likely you think it is that a person like that is going to show up in the largest stable parties listing?

As a matter of fact: even if she  is not present in the 8 member strictly stable parties,  she is present at one of  9 member stable parties, albeit it's one with relatively many members with morale penalties. I know that because I am using that exact  party configuration in my own game at the moment. (Solveig is one my favorite companions.)

I see, the number 5. Do you also add Morgant? It makes 10 companions and looks stable to me.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 08:39:34 AM by Piédalf »

Lohi-soturi

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2015, 07:17:04 AM »

I see, the number 5. Do you also Morgant? It makes 10 companions and looks stable to me.

Adding Morgant would mean that there are two people who dislike Solveig in the party, which means that the party is by definition no longer stable. If Ivan Khans relationship information is correct (and it seems to be!) the parties I've listed earlier are the maximal parties that satisfy the conditions for "strictly stable" or "stable", I.e. one cannot add anyone to the listed 8 member  stable parties or the 9 member stable parties without breaking those definitions.

As noted earlier in this thread, with good enough persuasion and/or gifting bracelets one can keep even all the companions together. But it's harder and hence I do not consider those party  compositions stable. See the Brytenwalda thread about this subject for explanations what is meant by stable and strictly stable in these lists.

matlock14

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2015, 10:41:26 PM »

I see, the number 5. Do you also Morgant? It makes 10 companions and looks stable to me.

Adding Morgant would mean that there are two people who dislike Solveig in the party, which means that the party is by definition no longer stable. If Ivan Khans relationship information is correct (and it seems to be!) the parties I've listed earlier are the maximal parties that satisfy the conditions for "strictly stable" or "stable", I.e. one cannot add anyone to the listed 8 member  stable parties or the 9 member stable parties without breaking those definitions.

As noted earlier in this thread, with good enough persuasion and/or gifting bracelets one can keep even all the companions together. But it's harder and hence I do not consider those party  compositions stable. See the Brytenwalda thread about this subject for explanations what is meant by stable and strictly stable in these lists.

Thanks for the good work.

Just want to add there are more combinations.

For example, if you want Solveig, this 9 member party is also stable:
You cam replace Dwywei with Donnchadh, it's still stable
11. Solveig      L-Brunhild           d-Reginhard         d-Egil                0-Like, 3-Hate   
15. Agathinos   L-Ailchu              d-Asbjorn            d-Beda              2-Like, 1-Hate
 7. Dwywei       L-Beda               d-Donnchadh       d-Caio             0-Like, 2-Hate
 6. Bodo           L-Asbjorn           d-Helgi               d-Solveig           1-Like, 0-Hate
 2. Egil              L-Brunhild         d-Clovis             d-Morgant          1-Like, 5-Hate
12. Asbjorn     L-Bodo                 d-Agathinos         d-Reginhard      1-Like, 2-Hate
14. Ailchu        L-Agathinos         d-Ceawlin            d-Brunhild         1-Like, 2-Hate
 3. Brunhild       L-Clovis             d-Reginhard     d-Ailchu              3-Like, 2-Hate
 9. Clovis         L-Brunhild           d-Egil                  d-Helgi             1-Like, 2-Hate

Also, You can have 10 member stable party, with Solveig as well. e.g.
11. Solveig      L-Brunhild           d-Reginhard         d-Egil                0-Like, 3-Hate   
15. Agathinos   L-Ailchu              d-Asbjorn            d-Beda              2-Like, 1-Hate
1. Caio             L-Egil                d-Beda             d-Dwywei            0-Like, 1-Hate
 6. Bodo           L-Asbjorn           d-Helgi               d-Solveig           1-Like, 0-Hate
 5. Morgant       L-Donnchadh      d-Solveig           d-Egil                1-Like, 1-Hate
4. Donnchadh   L-Morgant          d-Dwywei          d-Ceawlin           1-Like, 2-Hate
12. Asbjorn     L-Bodo                 d-Agathinos         d-Reginhard      1-Like, 2-Hate
14. Ailchu        L-Agathinos         d-Ceawlin            d-Brunhild         1-Like, 2-Hate
 3. Brunhild       L-Clovis             d-Reginhard     d-Ailchu              3-Like, 2-Hate
 9. Clovis         L-Brunhild           d-Egil                  d-Helgi             1-Like, 2-Hate
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 10:51:34 PM by matlock14 »

Lohi-soturi

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2015, 08:07:46 AM »

Thanks for the good work.

Just want to add there are more combinations.

For example, if you want Solveig, this 9 member party is also stable:
You cam replace Dwywei with Donnchadh, it's still stable
11. Solveig      L-Brunhild           d-Reginhard         d-Egil                0-Like, 3-Hate   
15. Agathinos   L-Ailchu              d-Asbjorn            d-Beda              2-Like, 1-Hate
 7. Dwywei       L-Beda               d-Donnchadh       d-Caio             0-Like, 2-Hate
 6. Bodo           L-Asbjorn           d-Helgi               d-Solveig           1-Like, 0-Hate
 2. Egil              L-Brunhild         d-Clovis             d-Morgant          1-Like, 5-Hate
12. Asbjorn     L-Bodo                 d-Agathinos         d-Reginhard      1-Like, 2-Hate
14. Ailchu        L-Agathinos         d-Ceawlin            d-Brunhild         1-Like, 2-Hate
 3. Brunhild       L-Clovis             d-Reginhard     d-Ailchu              3-Like, 2-Hate
 9. Clovis         L-Brunhild           d-Egil                  d-Helgi             1-Like, 2-Hate

Also, You can have 10 member stable party, with Solveig as well. e.g.
11. Solveig      L-Brunhild           d-Reginhard         d-Egil                0-Like, 3-Hate   
15. Agathinos   L-Ailchu              d-Asbjorn            d-Beda              2-Like, 1-Hate
1. Caio             L-Egil                d-Beda             d-Dwywei            0-Like, 1-Hate
 6. Bodo           L-Asbjorn           d-Helgi               d-Solveig           1-Like, 0-Hate
 5. Morgant       L-Donnchadh      d-Solveig           d-Egil                1-Like, 1-Hate
4. Donnchadh   L-Morgant          d-Dwywei          d-Ceawlin           1-Like, 2-Hate
12. Asbjorn     L-Bodo                 d-Agathinos         d-Reginhard      1-Like, 2-Hate
14. Ailchu        L-Agathinos         d-Ceawlin            d-Brunhild         1-Like, 2-Hate
 3. Brunhild       L-Clovis             d-Reginhard     d-Ailchu              3-Like, 2-Hate
 9. Clovis         L-Brunhild           d-Egil                  d-Helgi             1-Like, 2-Hate

We obviously have a different definition of stable. Here is mine:

a stable party is group where all members either

  • have no unwelcome persons in the group, or
  • have at most one unwelcome person  in the group while also having a person that they like
where unwelcome means any person who is either disliked by or who dislikes the member in question.

Any party that is not stable is called unstable. A strictly stable party is a stable party whose all members have no one they dislike in the group (equal to condition 1 of stable party).

This system stems from the Brytenwalda mod, where it was noticed that being only disliked by other person (but not disliking that person back) had the same effect on person's morale as disliking the other person herself. So although dislikes might be asymmetrical they still have the same effect as normal warbands symmetrical dislikes, hence the definition of unwelcome above. Since nobody has verified whether likes are also in practice symmetrical, they were only counted when explicitly declared (i.e. only one way).

In your first party both Clovis and Solveig dislike Egil.
In your second party both Bodo and Morgant dislike Solveig.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 08:27:14 AM by Lohi-soturi »

matlock14

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2015, 07:43:00 AM »

We obviously have a different definition of stable. Here is mine:

a stable party is group where all members either

  • have no unwelcome persons in the group, or
  • have at most one unwelcome person  in the group while also having a person that they like
where unwelcome means any person who is either disliked by or who dislikes the member in question.

Any party that is not stable is called unstable. A strictly stable party is a stable party whose all members have no one they dislike in the group (equal to condition 1 of stable party).

This system stems from the Brytenwalda mod, where it was noticed that being only disliked by other person (but not disliking that person back) had the same effect on person's morale as disliking the other person herself. So although dislikes might be asymmetrical they still have the same effect as normal warbands symmetrical dislikes, hence the definition of unwelcome above. Since nobody has verified whether likes are also in practice symmetrical, they were only counted when explicitly declared (i.e. only one way).

In your first party both Clovis and Solveig dislike Egil.
In your second party both Bodo and Morgant dislike Solveig.

Thanks for the clarifications Sir.
I simply thought one like cancels the dislike. so they cannot be disliked either.
The party you listed are the only ones that's stable, I think my experience in RE agreed with that.

Flavius Drusus

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2015, 11:33:52 PM »
Is there a new thread about the Reforged edition or we can continue this one? I'm asking in case some changes were introduced, because I believe some things might have changed. Here's my experience:

Egil never said he likes Brunhild and, at some point, he wanted to leave. I hoped that the girl could compensate for Clovis, but I was wrong. I don't remember how low was the party morale at time, so there is that.

Bodo said he dislikes Solveig but, as far as I remember, he never said he likes Asbjorn (I'm not 100% sure about this one, either). Asbjorn said he likes Bodo, though. When asked about the situation in the party, he's downright appalled at my choice of companions. He wanted to leave too, so now I have to keep the general morale higher than 60 to have him a bit happy.

My current party is: Solveig - Ceawlin - Caio - Brunhild - Clovis - Bodo - Asbjorn

kalarhan

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2015, 12:29:36 AM »
Is there a new thread about the Reforged edition or we can continue this one? I'm asking in case some changes were introduced, because I believe some things might have changed. Here's my experience:

Egil never said he likes Brunhild and, at some point, he wanted to leave. I hoped that the girl could compensate for Clovis, but I was wrong. I don't remember how low was the party morale at time, so there is that.

Bodo said he dislikes Solveig but, as far as I remember, he never said he likes Asbjorn (I'm not 100% sure about this one, either). Asbjorn said he likes Bodo, though. When asked about the situation in the party, he's downright appalled at my choice of companions. He wanted to leave too, so now I have to keep the general morale higher than 60 to have him a bit happy.

My current party is: Solveig - Ceawlin - Caio - Brunhild - Clovis - Bodo - Asbjorn

there were changes with RE and patchs since 2.0 like in 2.010 ish, so I would say start a new chart :XD for RE 2.1 (final patch)


Gogo

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2015, 03:00:05 PM »
1- Caio l 0 d 0                                        0 0
2- Brunhild l Clovis d Ailchu                      1 1   
3- Donnachadh l Morgant d Ceawlin           1 1 
4- Morgant l Donnachadh d Solvieg           1 1 
5- Bodo l Asbjorn d Solvieg                      1 1
6- Clovis l Brunhild d 0                            1 0
7- Ceawlin l Solvieg d Ailchu Donnachad    1 2
8- Solveig l Brunhild d 0                          1 0
9- Asbjorn l Bodo d Agathinos                  1 1
10- Ailchu l Agathinos d Ceawlin Brunhil    1 2   
11- Agathinos l Ailchu d Asbjorn               1 1   


I understand that this party isnt in the list of stables, the problem is that Ceawlin and Ailchu are going to eventually leave my party?

Flavius Drusus

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2015, 08:25:41 PM »
there were changes with RE and patchs since 2.0 like in 2.010 ish, so I would say start a new chart :XD for RE 2.1 (final patch)

I started a new char (some days) after RE was released. If the final patch will be compatible with old savegames, I'm not going to start over so soon XD

I understand that this party isnt in the list of stables, the problem is that Ceawlin and Ailchu are going to eventually leave my party?

When 2 companions hate each other, you have to choose one of them and send away/let go the other.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 08:30:16 PM by Flavius Drusus »

kalarhan

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2015, 08:42:43 PM »
there were changes with RE and patchs since 2.0 like in 2.010 ish, so I would say start a new chart :XD for RE 2.1 (final patch)

I started a new char (some days) after RE was released. If the final patch will be compatible with old savegames, I'm not going to start over so soon XD

Compatible is a weird concept.

Does your old (1.04 or older) savegame works with the new patch? Yes
Does your recent (2.000) savegame will works with the final patch (say 2.1)? Yes
How about the companions relations tree? That is created with your savegame, so it won't change with patchs ... that means that you will need to figure out if you should use a old or new chart :XD

Easiest way is to use a mod like this:
(click to show/hide)

Flavius Drusus

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2015, 11:24:09 PM »
Compatible is a weird concept.

Does your old (1.04 or older) savegame works with the new patch? Yes
Does your recent (2.000) savegame will works with the final patch (say 2.1)? Yes
How about the companions relations tree? That is created with your savegame, so it won't change with patchs ... that means that you will need to figure out if you should use a old or new chart :XD

Easiest way is to use a mod like this:
(click to show/hide)

I just read the thread about the patch notes and I believe I'm missing some changes. In them there are also some things related to the companions' interactions, which I'm interested in.

I guess I'll make a new save and delete the current one :(

For whoever is wondering: the relations' list in this topic isn't 100% valid, anymore.

stormwizzy

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2015, 02:56:29 PM »
Did a little run through the Remade edition, well companionwise (Sandbox).
There seems to be some new likes or dislikes. Here is what I've gotten so far.
(click to show/hide)
Thats my result so far after having them all in my company in one go, beating smaller bands to a pulp and occationally just letting days fly by. I posted this list when they stopped notifying me of their dislikes after beating several lesser bands in one go. So do anyone got confirmed Dislikes that I've not gotten so far?

Aetor

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Re: Largest Stable Companion parties chart please?
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2015, 10:20:39 AM »
1- Caio l 0 d 0                                        0 0
2- Brunhild l Clovis d Ailchu                      1 1   
3- Donnachadh l Morgant d Ceawlin           1 1 
4- Morgant l Donnachadh d Solvieg           1 1 
5- Bodo l Asbjorn d Solvieg                      1 1
6- Clovis l Brunhild d 0                            1 0
7- Ceawlin l Solvieg d Ailchu Donnachad    1 2
8- Solveig l Brunhild d 0                          1 0
9- Asbjorn l Bodo d Agathinos                  1 1
10- Ailchu l Agathinos d Ceawlin Brunhil    1 2   
11- Agathinos l Ailchu d Asbjorn               1 1   


I understand that this party isnt in the list of stables, the problem is that Ceawlin and Ailchu are going to eventually leave my party?

You can have Morgant as well and in 400 days no one has left