Religion.

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FerdiadITA

Squire
Now that monasteries raids are near to be implemented,I was thinking about increase religion power and consistency in the mod.
I don't really thought about how,so all the suggestions are more than welcome,or just share your opinion.
 
First off, excellent idea  :smile:

Seeing as native doesn't have anything resembling religion, this is a tricky one  :neutral:

Were you thinking of implementing a priest/monk?
The priest could be located in the monastery,
and the monastery could be in each (Christian) city
or be a location by itself, like a village - or in the village.
(I suppose you plan the latter).
The priest could give you missions such as:
1. Simply giving money to the maintenance of the monastery.
    And in return you would get renown or a special item (as in EGII if I remember correctly).
2. The  priest could ask you to hunt down some heathen raiders
  before they reach their destination at a Dane city
  (similar to the enemy raiders mission in v. 0.75x).

Having a good stance with the priests could increase your charisma,
making you able to command more men (larger party).
Or increasing the moral of your party.

And at last as a heathen, you could convert to Christianity, suddenly
changing your stance to the different factions - making it easier to change sides...
 
But this doesn't really implement religion, I know. I'm just brainstorming  :razz:

 
Idea :
Place monasteries around the map ,every monastery should have a few priests , if you talk to them , they give you advices and stuff.
And now the main idea : Riding Bandits attacking and conquering the Monasteries.You go and retake them, by killing the Bandits.After you kill them you chose :
Or you leave the monastery  to the priests , or you hold it for you , and if the priests do not agree that , you attack them ; or after you conquered it ,people will come daily ,and you would be able to  recruit from them (peasants , or even good soldiers).
When you enter in the monastery , you see people outside walking , even inside or whatever.

Summary -


-Every Monastery should have a few priests , giving you useless/usefull advices and morale to your party.By visiting it more often , you'r men's morale stands at high.

-Make The Monasteries Conquerable , other factions / bandits could attack and conquer them.If a faction takes one monastery , you cna go and retake it .Giving morale to your men.
-Peasants visiting the monastaries , you would be able to talk to them and even recruit.
 
Implement a significant religion would be hard,but I hope worthy.
Both of you gave me suggestions about monasteries and not religion,which gave me the idea instead of make monasteries a simple place to be raided,to make them the centre of religion(as they were).This mean that you can collaborate with the priests or just kill(rob,slave)them.
It will be a standalone place,but only lootable and not conquerable,as a village.
Priests will ask you to collect taxes from villagers,or a debt a lord has with them.Or other quests I'll write for them.
Donations to monastery will increase your relations with christians kingdoms.Visiting them will give high morale to the troops(but I'll have to find a way to don't give higher morale to heathen troops).
Peasants will be hireable in monasteries,and there'll be also a merchant.

Others suggestions?
And what about the Heathens?It would cut off the fair play to just add the Christianism,for the sake of history and because this would make too strong the Christians.

P.S.@MasacruTheArcher:happy that you decided to post here at the end.
 
I'm glad to see that my ideas were liked and  "approved" :smile: I hope you will add this stuff without any problem.


Suggestion :
I think it's hard and i'm not sure it will work :When you donate for the Monastary , the priests and citizens will build near some huts for the humans without home ,refuge people.That will increase the population(which means more money to collect , taxes)and more men to hire.
I was thinking at an wooden wall too.You pay now , they add a piece of wooden wall ,you pay after 1 week then they continue the wall and so  on (but at the end of the "project" the whole monestary will be surrounded by walls , it will look more like a base,so naa bad idea.
 
Adorno said:
Were you thinking of implementing a priest/monk?
The priest could be located in the monastery,
and the monastery could be in each (Christian) city
or be a location by itself, like a village - or in the village.
(I suppose you plan the latter).
The priest could give you missions such as:
1. Simply giving money to the maintenance of the monastery.
    And in return you would get renown or a special item (as in EGII if I remember correctly).
2. The  priest could ask you to hunt down some heathen raiders
  before they reach their destination at a Dane city
  (similar to the enemy raiders mission in v. 0.75x).

Having a good stance with the priests could increase your charisma,
making you able to command more men (larger party).
Or increasing the moral of your party.

Jeez, I was thinking the exact same thing ... even the Charisma bonus :smile:

Another idea for religion would be to act as a counterbalance to the current faction relation system. If you serve a certain faction and do quests for "their religion," then perhaps you could gain positive faction points with them and negative faction points with the other factions of other religions. This could potentially lead to a player choosing to betray his own faction through religion :smile: If he does lots of quests/whatever for an enemy religion (converts, so to speak), then eventually he will lose the alliance with his joined faction. Kind of a roundabout way to leave a faction rather than just "I quit."
 
I think adding religion(s) would be a great potential addition to the game.  Obviously implementation will be a bit tricky, but I think it will add another layer of gameplay for role players.  I really like the idea of building faction with a particular religion (why only have Christianity?) and getting missions etc. 

I like the idea or special items, or special troop lines even (paladins??).  Maybe even specific religion specific NPCs that can increase influence/persuasion with similar factions? 

I really like the idea of crusade style missions too.  For example, take a castle/city in the name of Christ or crush a range of heathen villages.  Maybe even smote a pagan shaman or warrior hiding in a village somewhere or track him/her down and their gathered followings.

 
@MasacruTheArcher:well that's would be more tricky I fear,but I'll give it a try.

@HardCode:Yes,that's something reasonable and give you the idea of have a real matter to leave a faction.But doing missions for the other religion could force you to leave the faction,also.I mean if the player will do a certain number of quests-donations or whatever,the faction will "abandon" him.

@Tulgar:There won't be only Christianity,but also paganism.Paladins sounds too fantasy to me,but religion fanatics going around could be a nice addition.
Special items?I don't know.. Specific NPC,yes that's reasonable.
The first crusade will be declared only in 1096,that is a bit late for this time period.But the pagan druid or maybe a heretic,or for the heathens a priest or a bishop,to slaughter could be a fair mission.

Great suggestions people,no one has any idea as for the heathens?
 
I will try give some suggestions, although my historical knowledge of Britain at this particular time is virtualy non-existant, and I also really dont know anything much about viking religion. So I will talk mostly about christianity.  I dont know anything about game mechanics and modding either.

Characteristics of monateries:
- the christian chirch (catholic mostly) was somewhat independent from the state - hence, monasteries should not belong to a faction;
- monateries often had patronage from a local lord - raid them and piss off the lord (Im not sure how characters may have personal relations with npc lords, but there seems to be something like it in vanilla) - he will directly attack you when he sees your party;
- monasteries were mostly located outside of cities and villages - they should have their own locations;
- monasteries where centers of culture - sell books at monasteries only, lootable books after raiding;
- monasteries tend to accumulate wealth - better monetary loot then villages, substantialy longer "looted" period than villages;
- monatseries have no direct military function - cant recruit from monasteries;

Religion:
- pick your (initial) religion when starting your character;
- lets say your character's "religion" is represented by a bar from 0 to 100 (the opposing "religion" will be another bar from 0 to 100). You start with 70 in your religion and 30 in the opposing religion, 50 being a middle mark where you would be considered "godless" and hated by all (so when one bar filles up, the other gets emptied).
- your religion bar should be dynamic: for example, each day you will loose one religion point gradually going down to the 50:50 ratio.  The way to up your religion bar would be to visit monasteries/temples, perform quests for them and such.
- your religion bar should have great impact on your charisma/leadership traits (who would follow a godless leader? religion was the "dope" of the masses at the time).
- morale: gain some points by simply visiting a monastery/temple (separate from "religion bar")
- religion and faction.  Europe was largely devided in antagonism mainly between christianity and everything else, so it will be enough to have just two religions for the setting.  Factions points should be linked to religion points.  This leads to changing faction on religious grounds, you will need to work hard and suffer consequences if you want to change faction through religion.  Lets say that the opposing religious facilities will both accept you only at the 50:50 ratio.  You will have to reach that ratio and suffer great penalties in charisma/leadership while doing so.
- different factions within the same religion: nonethical actions, such as looting (defenceless) villages of the oposing faction should give you religion penalties, hence forcing you to visit your religious grounds and doing quests for them more often, or forcing you to not loot villages. This is the ethical/honorable side within religion (killing infidels is another matter).

Well, this is off the top of my head, I hope I made some sense.
P.S. I were you, I would contact Ron Losey, as one the most (or rather the most) knowledgeable in history members of the modding community.
 
Hey,that was long.
I agree with you about the monasteries.Apart from the recruits,the reason you can recruit in monasteries is that they're visited by a lot of peasants,that may think would be a good idea to fight the horrible pagans.

The religion bar is something absolutely beyond me.But the way to leave the faction throw religion will be hard,that's for sure.Nonethical actions could give penalties,but only if doing that to your correligionars.
 
FerdiadITA said:
Hey,that was long.
I agree with you about the monasteries.Apart from the recruits,the reason you can recruit in monasteries is that they're visited by a lot of peasants,that may think would be a good idea to fight the horrible pagans.

And here comes the idea with the REFUGE people :smile: .I mean if the priests would build some huts around the Monastery for the people without a  home,a lot of refuge people will come to live at the Monastary.Not having jobs,or their own homes, they would join you to fight the pagans ,as you said.(I guess that not so many peasants would like to risk their lifes,not all peasants with a home are brave warriors)

If it's hard to code the thing when you donate ,and the priests build huts and stuff ,then you can try adding huts around the monastary from the beginning,without having to be built during the game.
 
FerdiadITA said:
Hey,that was long.
I agree with you about the monasteries.Apart from the recruits,the reason you can recruit in monasteries is that they're visited by a lot of peasants,that may think would be a good idea to fight the horrible pagans.

The religion bar is something absolutely beyond me.But the way to leave the faction throw religion will be hard,that's for sure.Nonethical actions could give penalties,but only if doing that to your correligionars.

The "bar" is just my way of visually explaining the concept, it is actually I guess just some calculations in the code, Im no expert though.

On recruiting from monasteries and refugees and monks building huts for the homeless, correct me if Im wrong, but "being humain" to the less fortunate is a virtue of modern days, rather than something of the middle ages. I doubt this took place at the time.  Monasteries were rather more secluded and comprised a scholarly and religious elitaristic society.  Maybe local parish churches were more involved with the populace's mishaps.
 
I guess  you're right.But still lot of pilgrims made a journey to visit sanctuaries that were in a monastery,so the recruitment will remain.
 
These are suggestion for the mod not reality suggestions.I mean you don't know exactly how the thing s happened in the old days.So improving something isn't a bad thing.Like adding more stuff et cetera.Besides it would be better with improvements.
 
Well, either way I will be happy, it was just my opinion. I do enjoy this mod very much as it is as well.
 
This looks promising  :smile:

So...
1. Monasteries to be raided.
2. Priests to give you missions.
3. Priests to be killed, robbed or enslaved.
4. Christian and pagan kingdoms.
5. Recruiting troops through monasteries (refugees perhaps).
6. Merchants at the monasteries.
7. Converting, to change relation with factions.
8. New NPC's in regards to religion.
9. Religious fanatics (besides vikings  :razz:).
10. Improving Charisma and troop morale through religion.

FerdiadITA said:
And what about the Heathens? It would cut off the fair play to just add the Christianism, for the sake of history and because this would make the Christians too strong.
I simply thought:
1. Heathens would have something similar to their gods (Stonehenge-like monument would be easy to build with a stone mesh :smile:  )
2. Heathens would gain charisma and boost troop morale by raiding  monasteries (simply reversing the bonus of the Christians).
 
Yes to all,but the heathens could use the berserkers as a sort of fanatics group.The berserkers were warriors that followed the ancient religion with zelo.So for gameplay reasons we could close an eye on historical accuracy and accept something simply realistic.

The suggestions for the heathens are good,but they should also have the same advantages of the Christians,so recuiting,missions,NPCs and so on.

Well,I think that we have the ideas,now it's time to put them in game.
 
FerdiadITA said:
@HardCode:Yes,that's something reasonable and give you the idea of have a real matter to leave a faction.But doing missions for the other religion could force you to leave the faction,also.I mean if the player will do a certain number of quests-donations or whatever,the faction will "abandon" him.

Exactly. A double-edged sword, so to speak :smile:
 
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