A Guide to Organizing a Historical Event

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The Normans can represent the contempotary Western Franks (at a time when it'd be more appropriate to just call them French) reasonably well, but using them for the Ottonians would be a stretch. Lenzen would involve Normans cosplaying as the Ottonians and, huh, Norsemen, maybe? cosplaying as the Slavs. Nah. There's plenty of other appropriate scenarios that can be used instead.

Also, Víkingr does not cover the whole Viking Age anymore.
MarchHare said:
Has the Battle of Clontarf been played? One would think such an important battle would be one of the first involving the Goidels against the Nordmenn, but I don't see in the list.
No, Clontarf hasn't been done. Here's why.

I suppose the Goídil could represent an allied Gael-Norse army, having the Gallgoídel class stand for the Norse, but it's far from ideal.
 
I guess the Goidil have quite a Bunch of norse-gael gear (I guess like 1-2 swords, axes and norse shields) so it could work.
So what exact timeframe does Vikingr now cover?
 
Yeah, the Gallgoídil are literally the Norse-Gaels, so they have the equipment. But while it could work (and Brunanburh was much worse in this regard), it scores Clontarf some minus points in my book.

As for the timeframe, it's not set in stone, but it's usually thought of as roughly the century leading to Hastings. And yes, there are leftover inconsistencies from earlier installments. :razz:
 
I'd say Ashingdon/Assandun would fit than. Or maybe a battle of th norman conquest of Ireland. It's 100 years after the timeframe of the Mod, but it would be something quite new and probably interesting.
 
100 years is a massive difference, though. We've only had one event after 1066, and quite reluctantly at that, even though it was only set in 1069 (Eoferwic).
 
hrotha said:
The Normans can represent the contempotary Western Franks (at a time when it'd be more appropriate to just call them French) reasonably well, but using them for the Ottonians would be a stretch. Lenzen would involve Normans cosplaying as the Ottonians and, huh, Norsemen, maybe? cosplaying as the Slavs. Nah. There's plenty of other appropriate scenarios that can be used instead.

Also, Víkingr does not cover the whole Viking Age anymore.
MarchHare said:
Has the Battle of Clontarf been played? One would think such an important battle would be one of the first involving the Goidels against the Nordmenn, but I don't see in the list.
No, Clontarf hasn't been done. Here's why.

I suppose the Goídil could represent an allied Gael-Norse army, having the Gallgoídel class stand for the Norse, but it's far from ideal.

Thats why I said Lenzen would fall out of the time frame. Later Ottonians could be represented somewhat okayish in my opinion. Equipment for the Ottonian and later Salian factions would have to be added on and changed. Sadly there is no oval shield which was often depicted in period art. Also a wider variety of round helmets without nasal would be required. For anything 10th century though the kite shield would be anachronistic. But sadly all this cant be done if I am not mistaken.
 
I agree with fysaga about a battle on the continent. Or at least something involving Normans. Civitate would be an interesting one to do, but depicting the Swabians, Italians and Lombards accurately would likely be an issue.
 
ThegnAnsgar said:
I agree with fysaga about a battle on the continent. Or at least something involving Normans. Civitate would be an interesting one to do, but depicting the Swabians, Italians and Lombards accurately would likely be an issue.
What about the battle of Alnwick? It was fought between scots and normans. In 1093 though. I've got no idea if the norman armour or weapons changed until this time, but I dont believe so for the scots and so we'd have a battle involving the Norman faction once more
 
Indeed, but I dont know Any battle in which the normans fought anyone else than french or bretons before the conquest of England, and as most people would enjoy the normans in the next event they should also be included I think. The other battles would be similar to Vallesdunes I believe. But probably you know a battle in the right timeframe involving Normans and possibly another Vikingr factions :wink: Sorry I am not really a normans freak:grin:
 
How about Vlaardingen ? I think the Germans under Henry II. could be represented by the Normanns, but I am not quite sure about the Frisians, maybe the Engle faction would suit them best though I think they could do with horses aswell.
 
Representing the Frisians with the Engle Faction. There are just so many Angelo-saxon unique items with this faction
Also if the Eastern Franks (HRE) are similar enough  to the Normanns is also discussable. Like Hrotha said you could let the West Franks be represented by the Normanns, as they were very, very similar but also the East Franks? The Eastern part was typically germanic, if you can express it this way. The western Empire was Gallo-roman and this wasnt just shown by their language
Nevertheless I must admint that this battle would be really interesting and cool. But we would need a possibility to make an ambush map ( maybe with 5-6 different spawnpoints for the frisians?)
 
I have already described the equipment needed for a true Ottonian/Salian German faction some posts ago. Later Empire adopted quite some of the Norman equipment. I choose engle for frisian due to them having access to both round and kite shields. But the Frisians had also cavalry, as far as I understood the accounts. Its quite early for kite shields, longer on cavalry specialized maille and some other stuff, but we look at a difference of some 12 years minimum. Also mind please, the Gallo-Roman influences survived stronger in some regions than in others in West Francia (for example Aquitania). Germans (if you want to talk about Germans at the time -  I am of the opinion that local ethnicity mattered more, like being Bavarian or Saxon) were known for the usage of round helmets, oval shields etc.

Dark_Ages-59-60-Ottonian_Heavy_Cavalry.jpg


Drawings based on contemporary Ottonian Art.

lotharingen.jpg
 
Well thats what I ment earlier. You cant generalize the german tribes/kingdoms/regions, but they are very different to the Gallo-Romans, but again we'd need oval shields here too.
To the influence you mentioned I agree that it surely survived stronger in some areas, and especially the normans would have some germanic influence or more off norse, but still they were romanized at some point and this means Gallo-Roman culture. The two frankish kingdoms also became more individual after the centuries of beeing seperated, thats at least what I would believe if I see the course of what happened after Charlemagnes death. The eastern part beeing proudly "germanic" and the Western part beeing proudly the "typical" "medieval" kingdom.
But anyways maybe we should actually consider really taking a setting, that  is easier doable with the factions. For example the battle of Ashingdon or so. But my wish for the eastfranks as a faction wont die anyways.

P.S. I really enjoy your footage, as I didnt really got an idea of the frankish army in the 10th century, so thanks
 
Well the seperation wasnt in its earnest until the 10th century. Charles the Fat was the last carolingian to rule all Frankish Kingdoms in the late 9th century. The split into Germany and France wasnt as drastic as some scholars liked to believe in the last century. And the "medieval kingdom" you describe, is if I understood you correctly, is called the Seigneurie Banale (SP ?). The situation developed not as drastic and even in the same forms as in the western half. Dukes still needed Königsnähe and smaller lords didnt have the same juridicial authority as should develope in France (and not even there in all regions, as strong counts and dukes reigned in power on themselves, with exceptions such as the lords of the Maconnaise). The so called feudal revolution is under heavy debatte by noteable scholars.

For equipment, Norman style equipment was used in many parts of Europe with time, though some so called "Norman" pieces arent even Norman in origin. If there ever will be work done on this mod again, Id really like to see a continental "Frankish" faction, preferably Ottonian.

 
I just ment that the Western part would see themselves as french more likely, while the german part was again very split between Alamanns, Saxons and so on and that it was develpoting towards a King having more power in France
And I totally agree. Next faction should be the Franks (likely the Ottonians anyways) or Frisians as they were also involved with the vikings, even more than the romanized normans
 
Well I dont want to derail the thread further, so Ill leave it as it is.

For another idea for an battle, how about Mortemer or Varaville ?
 
Seeing as how I don't see it on the list, there's probably an obvious answer to this question, but if we're looking at battles featuring the Normans against another faction in Vikingr, has there ever actually been a Hastings event (maybe an unofficial one)? It'd probably be more fitting to do something like that in October if it was going to happen, but it's just a thought.
 
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