Dragon Skin and its effectiveness?

This isn't precisely "historical", but most war stuff seems to go here anyway.

So there was that controversy over Dragon Skin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Skin_body_armor.

What are your opinions on it? Is the US Army moronic to not approve it as standard-issue armor? And also, what about the contradicting test results from the Army and other testers?

Naridill said:

There's a Future Weapons test of the armour here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KS0pSwdQfbY

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Yep, seen it already. I'm wondering what YOUR thoughts on it are.

now that's freaky... imagine that you get up after taking a magazine of ak into the chest... your enemy will definitely **** bricks.
by the way; i wonder how they didn't come up with something like this before, it's almost the same principle with the sandbags

I would trust my life to Dragon Skin.  That said, I am already going to be trusting my life to Interceptor, so... *sigh*

In any case, this gradual trend towards increasingly complete body armor is a good thing.  The vest is nice, but it's the neck, groin, thigh and upper/under arm protection that makes walking around a battlefield a survivable prospect.  Now if we can just convince armor designers to stop reinventing the wheel and use historical models for articulation and weight distribution...

Destichado said:

I would trust my life to Dragon Skin.  That said, I am already going to be trusting my life to Interceptor, so... *sigh*

In any case, this gradual trend towards increasingly complete body armor is a good thing.  The vest is nice, but it's the neck, groin, thigh and upper/under arm protection that makes walking around a battlefield a survivable prospect.  Now if we can just convince armor designers to stop reinventing the wheel and use historical models for articulation and weight distribution...

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exactly; why not add shoulder protectors and tigh pads to improve protection rate. it is also important to protect arms and legs as the chest,since you consider heavy wounded personel is as useless as dead in the battlefield

I still you'd be dead by blunt force trauma, or even shock.

Buxton said:

I still you'd be dead by blunt force trauma, or even shock.

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that is the main difference of that armor already, it distributes blunt force among the other scales in order to dampen it

Kuzgun said:

Buxton said:

I still you'd be dead by blunt force trauma, or even shock.

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that is the main difference of that armor already, it distributes blunt force among the other scales in order to dampen it

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I was wondering about blunt trauma as well. Do you have a source that says dragon skin is better at absorbing/distributing blunt force than traditional 1-piece ceramic plate systems?

There was something VERY fishy going on with the Army's test.  They used a damaged armor and would not reveal how it was damaged, they said the ceramics delaminated and bullets went through like paper (!) but would not allow the armor to be inspected by the manufacturers, all personnel involved in conducting the test were not allowed to reveal or comment on any testing methods used during the test...  It's BAD.

And from personal experience I don't trust Army brass an inch further than I can throw them.  There's good men in the ranks up there, but from what I've seen they're thin, and I don't have any inclination to look for more.  Which is why I'm joining the Corps.

God bless America and all the wonderful people protecting it.

indeed.

Last I checked the Corps doesn't have enough line medics to go around and has to steal from the Navy. 

edit:  Yeah, they don't have any medics at all.  Huh.  That sucks for whichever navy corpsman joined the "safe" branch and then has to go out on patrol with Marines. 

Merentha said:

Last I checked the Corps doesn't have enough line medics to go around and has to steal from the Navy. 

edit:  Yeah, they don't have any medics at all.  Huh.  That sucks for whichever navy corpsman joined the "safe" branch and then has to go out on patrol with Marines. 

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I sure hope the Dutch ones do, since I'm planning on joining the Dutch Marines...

I don't know about that stuff.

In Bosnia, I sewed little strips of scrap metal into my vest and arms and pants, and it worked just fine. Most of us do fine just improvising. We don't need eggheads spewing more crap that won't come through in the clutch. My time is long since done, but I fear for the boys of today, who have to deal with a more and more inept, 'high-tech' force.

The Corps has never had medical personnel, ever, and never will.  There are no non-combatant positions in the Corps -"Every Marine a Rifleman," you know.  Navy Corpsmen have always gone out with us.  They volunteer for the position, they go where we go, do what we do, and eat what we eat.  They have the right to wear our uniform.  It's an honor and a privilege to serve with them, and they seem to consider the feeling mutual.  Getting stuck never enters the equation. 

*sigh*

I suppose this is as good a place as any to announce that I was given my orders today.  I'm to report for Officer Training on the 19th.  I'll probably be pretty quiet for a while. 

Destichado:  I think your ideas about military service are a bit different from mine.   

For instance, on seeing that you are going to OCS (congratulations, by the way) my first thought wasn't "congratulations for the honor" or something similar, but "hey, that means you're less likely to die."

Destichado said:

I would trust my life to Dragon Skin.  That said, I am already going to be trusting my life to Interceptor, so... *sigh*

In any case, this gradual trend towards increasingly complete body armor is a good thing.  The vest is nice, but it's the neck, groin, thigh and upper/under arm protection that makes walking around a battlefield a survivable prospect.  Now if we can just convince armor designers to stop reinventing the wheel and use historical models for articulation and weight distribution...

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You are obviously a new recruit.  Not that it's a bad thing...you'll learn.  Or you are a senior officer...which makes me sad...because it means you'll never learn.  The neck, groin, thigh, and arms protectors are stupid.  They are hot, heavy, restrict dexterity, decrease mobility, and don't really protect all that much.  Particularly the DAPS (Deltoid and Arm).  Those make no sense to me.  All they are is thin flexible kevlar...like the old flak vests...good for shrapnel...not so good for bullets.  I haven't seen the stats, but somehow, I don't think that the numbers of deaths we've sustained from shrapnel injuries to the shoulder justify the added weight or hindrance in shouldering our weapon.  The groin protector is only slightly less annoying.  The neck and throat guard I can live with....uncomfortable, but doesn't really hinder my ability to fight much. 

Na...in my experiences in combat, the ability to move fast and avoid being hit in the first place is of far greater importance than uparmoring the individual soldier to high hell in a futile attempt to protect them from every possible thing they could conceivably be hit with during a fight.  I'm an infantryman; not a tank.

That's why I liked my improv armor.

Just slap something on to Kevlar, keep it light and moveable, and you've just made something good better.

You don't need to be covered in armor to survive on the battlefield.

Look at 1st Chechnya, and you'll see scum up against... well, more scum, but better armored scum.

And they won.

Surviving on the battlefield has little to do with armor- it's more of a bonus.

That's my view anyways. I went from Abrams to infantry, and adapted pretty well.

PS- I hear you on the groin protector. Anything that even remotely resembles, or serves the same purpose as a cup is not something I'm a fan of... 

I don't know much about the armor people wear nowadays... other than it's heavy.

I have friends in both the Army and Marines... I must ask them about this.

Halden The Borch shooter said:

I don't know much about the armor people wear nowadays... other than it's heavy.

I have friends in both the Army and Marines... I must ask them about this.

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The interceptor isn't bad.  I liked it...until I was ordered to add under-arm SAPI's, Deltoid and Arm Protectors, Neck yoke, Throat Guard, and Groin Protector....then it sucked.  The concept is solid.  The basic vest isn't all that heavy...if you actually take the time to fit it snug to yourself instead of just throwing it on haphazardly, it wears well and the weight is well distributed...and you can just directly attach most of your mission essential equipment to it instead of wearing an over-vest....though some chose to wear an over vest anyway...mostly if their job didn't require them to have all their stuff immediately on them at all times.  It's when you are required, under threat of UCMJ, to wear all the little gee-whiz attachments that some stupid pogue-ass desk jockey decides you "need" that the system begins to fail.