Author Topic: Early Rusĭ Names  (Read 5927 times)

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hrotha

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Re: Early Rusĭ Names
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2014, 01:06:10 PM »
It might work as a nickname ("falcon guy", so to speak)
Sokol - yes, most likely it was a nickname. In the sagas/fairy tales is synonymous with brave, bright hero.
Sokolov - a modern surname.
Ah, makes sense. Thanks!
For the event, I thought takin' the name: Sŭpanŭ Sokolov but is Sŭpanŭ Sokol more earlyish and acceptable Rusĭ name for the event or should I rethink?
Well, neither Sokol nor Sokolov (or rather, Sokolŭ and Sokolovŭ, to use a transliteration scheme more suitable for the late 10th century) seem to be entirely appropriate, although I suppose Sokolŭ *might* just work. Regardless, if you're fighting as a Fer Áraig, you might want to come up with a clan tag together with those of your clan mates who feel like changing their names for the events instead of using a nickname or a patronym. I suggested an Old East Slavic clan name to Celtic to use it when you guys sign up in the event thread, so you can ask him to see if that'd be fine.

Poem of Maeror

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Re: Early Rusĭ Names
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2014, 01:12:53 PM »
It might work as a nickname ("falcon guy", so to speak)
Sokol - yes, most likely it was a nickname. In the sagas/fairy tales is synonymous with brave, bright hero.
Sokolov - a modern surname.
Ah, makes sense. Thanks!
For the event, I thought takin' the name: Sŭpanŭ Sokolov but is Sŭpanŭ Sokol more earlyish and acceptable Rusĭ name for the event or should I rethink?
Well, neither Sokol nor Sokolov (or rather, Sokolŭ and Sokolovŭ, to use a transliteration scheme more suitable for the late 10th century) seem to be entirely appropriate, although I suppose Sokolŭ *might* just work. Regardless, if you're fighting as a Fer Áraig, you might want to come up with a clan tag together with those of your clan mates who feel like changing their names for the events instead of using a nickname or a patronym. I suggested an Old East Slavic clan name to Celtic to use it when you guys sign up in the event thread, so you can ask him to see if that'd be fine.

Roger that. Thanks, Hrotha!
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Yngvald

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Re: Early Rusĭ Names
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2014, 01:23:40 PM »
For the event, I thought takin' the name: Sŭpanŭ Sokolov but is Sŭpanŭ Sokol more earlyish and acceptable Rusĭ name for the event or should I rethink?

An entire post was previously dedicated to your query, wherein the same was addressed at length. Attention span, much?  :lol:


Poem of Maeror

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Re: Early Rusĭ Names
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2014, 01:29:06 PM »
For the event, I thought takin' the name: Sŭpanŭ Sokolov but is Sŭpanŭ Sokol more earlyish and acceptable Rusĭ name for the event or should I rethink?

An entire post was previously dedicated to your query, wherein the same was addressed at length. Attention span, much?  :lol:



Keep yer whinin' on yerself, none are interested.
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Yngvald

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Re: Early Rusĭ Names
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2014, 02:49:39 PM »
It was readdressed during my posting, so never mind and keep the Slothing strong.

Gadric

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Re: Early Rusĭ Names
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2014, 06:02:24 PM »
Really good work on this. Hats off.

hrotha

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Re: Early Rusĭ Names
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2014, 09:48:40 PM »
Thanks, Gadric!

Partizan_Rusi

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Re: Early Rusĭ Names
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2014, 09:42:28 PM »
ŭ and  ъ at the end , ignore them when saying the word.

+ ancient rus names

Eng    Cyr.
Zluk    Злюк   - means evil man.


Also :

Svyatopŭlkŭ   Svjatopъlkъ   Свѧтопълкъ - means sacred host(about army).
Bandyukŭ   Bandjukъ   Бандюкъ  -  bandit.


Don't take these names :]
Rache   Rače   Раче
Rachĭ   Račь   Рачь
Rachĭnŭ   Račьnъ   Рачьнъ
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 01:01:08 PM by Partizan_Rusi »

hrotha

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Re: Early Rusĭ Names
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2014, 10:20:52 PM »
ŭ and  ъ , ignore them when saying the word.
Actually, the consensus seems to be that both yers (ъ and ь) were still pronounced as distinct ultra-short vowels during the period Víkingr deals with; they wouldn't be dropped until some time later. To get an approximate idea of what they sounded like, you may compare them to Japanese devoiced u.

For our time period, the back yer ъ (ŭ) was probably closer to [ɵ] than to Japanese [ɯ]. The front yer ь (ĭ) was probably [ɪ] as in English bit but shorter.

I should write up a section on pronunciation I guess.

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Re: Early Rusĭ Names
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2014, 01:02:06 PM »
ŭ and  ъ , ignore them when saying the word.
Actually, the consensus seems to be that both yers (ъ and ь) were still pronounced as distinct ultra-short vowels during the period Víkingr deals with; they wouldn't be dropped until some time later. To get an approximate idea of what they sounded like, you may compare them to Japanese devoiced u.

For our time period, the back yer ъ (ŭ) was probably closer to [ɵ] than to Japanese [ɯ]. The front yer ь (ĭ) was probably [ɪ] as in English bit but shorter.

I should write up a section on pronunciation I guess.
I forgot to add that - "ŭ and  ъ at the end , ignore them when saying the word."
So Svyatopŭlkŭ  -   Свѧтопълкъ will sound as Svyatopolk like in current russian, and ѧ is я = ya.
Letter ѣ or ъ in the middle of the word is wierd grammar rules of ancient russian, it can be O or A or E.
Like :
Běla   Бѣла    - white(female name)
Bělina   Бѣлина

Bezĭdrugŭ Bezьdrugъ Безьдругъ - says Bezdrug, means "without friends"  (drug = friend you know :] )

Bozheta   Božeta Божeта and  Bozh-Божь  - variants of "godly"
Bozhĭkŭ      Божькъ - "lesser god".

Svyatoslavŭ Svjatoslavъ Свѧтославъ - say Svyatoslav.
Not all names are oudated, one of my uncles is Svyatoslav(means "to glorify holiness") and this name frequently goes as short "Slava" , which means glory you know. Female version - Svyatoslava .

Many meanings we have now came from verbal tradition after christianization. Runic language and culture that was before cyrrilic alphabet mostly lost to time and earth.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 01:28:59 PM by Partizan_Rusi »

hrotha

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Re: Early Rusĭ Names
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2014, 01:59:05 PM »
No, I mean they were still pronounced even in final position, and the strong yers hadn't developed into о and е yet. In a word like пълкъ, the final ъ was weak, and therefore the preceding ъ was strong and developed into о. Historically:

пълкъ > полкъ > полк
стрѣльць > стрѣлець > стрелец

But for our time frame we're still at the first stage of that development, with later forms popping up in our sources, like the Primary Chronicle, because they were written after our period.

Partizan_Rusi

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Re: Early Rusĭ Names
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2014, 10:13:21 PM »
Well, to pronounce ancient russian(before 13th c. Old russian version is used in church even now) totally right you need to take special philology course in one of our universities or read few russian books about ancient russian. If you don't want to bother with such nuances then use later version.
Also big chunk of old word construction left in russian used by our church.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 10:16:44 PM by Partizan_Rusi »

hrotha

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Re: Early Rusĭ Names
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2014, 12:29:25 AM »
Thread updated. I made some minor changes to better explain the patronymics and added a note on the transliteration of е, where I don't necessarily follow the BGN/PCGN system.

Jurgen

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Re: Early Rusĭ Names
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2018, 06:47:33 PM »
Good!