So unfortunate
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harnas1977
Sergeant at Arms
I agree - it's a real shame there are so little players online. I wonder about the reason for this state of affairs... There is nothing seriously broken in this mod... I wonder how the latest patch would perform on a full server... Nowadays it's difficult to find 10 players online globally...
[15th]Harvain
Veteran
harnas1977 said:
Many people, like NW for the melee, IE takes that out in 95% of moments. Public events was needed from the start, no private events. Most servers didn't use Conquest mode, which literally was and always will be IE's bread and butter. And finally, there is no auto-update for IE for patches. Most random public people would never look back at the forums to get a patch or news.
Mod has not been updated for a long time. Two fractions is already too small. Conquest is a poor way option.
1. The mod was updated a little more than two weeks ago and a patch will be released very soon. That is not a long time at all. Do you seriously expect a non profit mod team to release weekly updates? Not even some high budget triple A teams do that. Also, since patches have been unsuccessful in bringing significant amounts of people back to the mod, it cannot be assumed that the lack of patches is a reason for empty servers.
2. It's factions, not fractions. But yes, you have a valid point. That is why in recent patches have focused on adding to the current factions and we're currently working on Britain.
3. Warfare on the Western Front was a war of attrition, push and pull and involving vast amounts of soldiers. Conquest is almost perfect for representing these aspects.
The team has many plans for reviving interest in the mod. You'll learn some of these ideas in the next dev-blog.
2. It's factions, not fractions. But yes, you have a valid point. That is why in recent patches have focused on adding to the current factions and we're currently working on Britain.
3. Warfare on the Western Front was a war of attrition, push and pull and involving vast amounts of soldiers. Conquest is almost perfect for representing these aspects.
The team has many plans for reviving interest in the mod. You'll learn some of these ideas in the next dev-blog.
I did not mean patches, but updates, content. Rifle-grenade is good, but a little.
Conquest has many disadvantages this module. For example, too simple respkill. Or situation, you kill me, I appeared on my spawn, took two steps and shot at your back, through half of the map. Best mode is Battle. But we have too many open spaces very accurate weapons. I would like more maps with cities. Or the ability to crawl.
Conquest has many disadvantages this module. For example, too simple respkill. Or situation, you kill me, I appeared on my spawn, took two steps and shot at your back, through half of the map. Best mode is Battle. But we have too many open spaces very accurate weapons. I would like more maps with cities. Or the ability to crawl.
Duke Daniel Milutin
Banned
I think there should be some sort of invasion mode where players defend the trench from attacking bots. Also scripting the bots map-specifically so they would attack in a loose formations instead of just clustering up into being a easy target, could make such bot-battles quite challenging and entertaining. I think an invasion mode could help the mod be alive cause it also doesn't even require a lot of players to be fun and gives a bit variation to the mod.
Ah yes, the respawn killing is indeed a big problem. However, this will be fixed soon by adding a feature where flags under attack cannot be used for spawning. WWI is not about urban warfare and so it will never be the main focus of the mod. People interested in WWI play the mod to experience trench warfare. Trench maps are unsuited to battle mode due to how quickly people will die due to the new weaponry.NightHawkreal said:I did not mean patches, but updates, content. Rifle-grenade is good, but a little.
Conquest has many disadvantages this module. For example, too simple respkill. Or situation, you kill me, I appeared on my spawn, took two steps and shot at your back, through half of the map. Best mode is Battle. But we have too many open spaces very accurate weapons. I would like more maps with cities. Or the ability to crawl.
harnas1977
Sergeant at Arms
I second to this. Proper bot battles (player led or not) would keep this mod alive - just look at Full Invasion mod.Danik said:
Arty and HMG could show it's full potential.
Danik said:
Not a bad idea. But requires strict limit on ammunition and firearms for bots. At least, the old native weapons like bots in BF. By the way, may use the old faction of NW. German experiments with time machine.
Rigadoon
I do not need to attack the spawn is enough for me to see it. Through the crosshair.
Yes, their interest is brilliantly demonstrated, using empty servers. The First World War had the battles in the cities. Especially if we are dealing with small detachments.
Obviously spawns will be in protected locations. Even when they aren't, it takes half a second for them to hop into cover. Now this is a different issue entirely. I talked about disallowing respawning on flags under attack in response to you saying that people trying to capture a flag get shot due to defenders respawning right on the flag.NightHawkreal said:Rigadoon
I do not need to attack the spawn is enough for me to see it. Through the crosshair.
Yes, their interest is brilliantly demonstrated, using empty servers. The First World War had the battles in the cities. Especially if we are dealing with small detachments.
Your second point is complete bull**** and you're fully aware of it, at least, I hope so. The focus of the mod being trench warfare is clearly not the reason for the mod's death. You are the only person who has told me that the trench warfare focus of the mod negatively affects the mod. The lack of people on the servers is due to the lag in earlier versions of the mod, certain bugs, lack of enough proper trench maps and perhaps the nature of the community. I also never denied that WWI had urban warfare, I simply said that the focus of the mod should be trench warfare as that is the spirit of WWI. That doesn't mean that we can't have city maps. Honestly, if you're going to continue arguing the this WWI mod should focus on urban warfare, which was an incredibly rare thing on the Western Front, there's no point in arguing with you as clearly nothing will get through to you.
I meant the opposite - the vulnerability of the defenders. They do not even have time to make one step after the revival, instantly getting shot.
I am one of a few who do speak on the forum. Besides, I know a few players with the same opinion.
I do not propose to throw out all the trenches and build Paris. Just add variety, in the form of city maps. This should benefit if the server has a few players. I even wanted to personally create one or more such maps, but without blank maps it is too time-consuming.
The First World War is also considered dull, but the soldiers had no choice, they could not leave the server.
I am one of a few who do speak on the forum.
Besides, I know a few players with the same opinion.I do not propose to throw out all the trenches and build Paris. Just add variety, in the form of city maps. This should benefit if the server has a few players. I even wanted to personally create one or more such maps, but without blank maps it is too time-consuming.
The First World War is also considered dull, but the soldiers had no choice, they could not leave the server.
Duke Daniel Milutin
Banned
People who wants urban warfare do so because it gives room for a lot of tactical gameplay. The trench maps just need more environmental cover and rework of no man's land to make the gameplay more balanced between attackers and defenders. Pretty much any type of infrastructure and landscape could be inside no man's land, so there's much room for creativity.
I know what you meant. As I said, it's a different issue entirely which is why I was lost as to why you would use that as a response to my comment. Again, spawns can be put in better locations and it's fairly easy to get back in cover quickly after spawn.NightHawkreal said:
I speak to people on two forums, the people on my Steam friends list and the people who frequent the mod's ModDB and steam pages. I have literally heard the opinions of thousands and that is what I'm basing my statement on.I am one of a few who do speak on the forum.
Live I have said repeatedly, I have no issue with city maps. I think it is a great idea for their to be more map variety. Creating a blank map is quite easy and quick, so if you ever find the time to make one, we'd be glad to include it in the mod.
I've been thinking of creating some more ruined building scene props as the current ones are rather bland. Edit:
I fully agree. Doing some major working on our trench maps is vital to the mod's revival. There's definitely a lot that can be improved, such as more environmental cover and improving no man's land as you said as well as improving spawn locations and adding more details to the trenches.Danik said:
On invasion mode, it is something we have considered. Due to the amount of work it will take, it is not one of our main priorities at the moment, but it's likely we will give it a shot at a later time.
Danik
We just want to be able to move. With open spaces and accurate rifles it is very difficult, especially if there's not enough players. All are forced to sit in the trenches. I do not dispute that the First World War was just that. But it was boring.
Rigadoon
Blank map is a map with a blank and flat field, which you can add to the module so that anyone could edit it and send it to you. And If you like some variant, you add it in the next version.
We just want to be able to move.
With open spaces and accurate rifles it is very difficult, especially if there's not enough players. All are forced to sit in the trenches. I do not dispute that the First World War was just that. But it was boring. Rigadoon
Blank map is a map with a blank and flat field, which you can add to the module so that anyone could edit it and send it to you. And If you like some variant, you add it in the next version.
harnas1977
Sergeant at Arms
[15th]Harvain said:
Coming back to the melee weapons discussion... I'd recommend to boost 1h weapons such as clubs and knifes to reflect the fact that rifle fixed bayonets were too cumbersome for general use in trench warfare in close-quarter.
I understand that it'd be difficult to get to melee in most cases esp. in open field maps, but when one does, this should be and easy kill.
I know this thread is now semi-old and the discussion has died off, but what the hell, I'll reply anyway.
I think the problem with Iron Europe is that it tries to represent a part of WW1 that is simply impossible to represent on Warband. Soldiers wouldn't jump into No Man's Land in broad daylight without lots of artillery support and careful preparations beforehand, but this mod, due mostly to engine limitations I imagine, lacks many crucial elements to represent the kind of warfare seen in big offensives, like the ability to go prone and off-map heavy artillery (even light artillery plays a negligible role).
In my opinion, trying to stick to the stereotypical view of WW1 in spite of Warband's limitations is folly, as it will only be somewhat enjoyable for people who are *really* into WW1, even though the mod plays nothing like actual WW1, and for everyone else the gameplay flaws become too obvious once the novelty wears off.
My suggestion would be to acknowledge the limitations of Warband and to make the best of them. Big offensives with loads of artillery preparation and large numbers of soldiers are impossible to depict even remotely accurately, but night patrols and trench raids aren't. Change the focus of the game to that. Trench raids were carried out with much less arty preparation, with low visibility and with an element of surprise (it's not easy for the defenders to just shoot everybody dead if they don't know where they're coming from and can barely see them). Trench raids would often come to close quarters, using both specialized and improvised weapons. Taking prisoners was an important part of trench raiding, and with the surrender animations and some imaginative thinking this could even become the base of a game mode. Night patrols would often entail small groups fighting in No Man's Land without proper support, and in close quarters, as they'd stumble upon one another over a crater in the darkness. That should be well within Warband's capabilities, especially if you can add an option to go prone.
It would be more fun AND more accurate, I think.
I think the problem with Iron Europe is that it tries to represent a part of WW1 that is simply impossible to represent on Warband. Soldiers wouldn't jump into No Man's Land in broad daylight without lots of artillery support and careful preparations beforehand, but this mod, due mostly to engine limitations I imagine, lacks many crucial elements to represent the kind of warfare seen in big offensives, like the ability to go prone and off-map heavy artillery (even light artillery plays a negligible role).
In my opinion, trying to stick to the stereotypical view of WW1 in spite of Warband's limitations is folly, as it will only be somewhat enjoyable for people who are *really* into WW1, even though the mod plays nothing like actual WW1, and for everyone else the gameplay flaws become too obvious once the novelty wears off.
My suggestion would be to acknowledge the limitations of Warband and to make the best of them. Big offensives with loads of artillery preparation and large numbers of soldiers are impossible to depict even remotely accurately, but night patrols and trench raids aren't. Change the focus of the game to that. Trench raids were carried out with much less arty preparation, with low visibility and with an element of surprise (it's not easy for the defenders to just shoot everybody dead if they don't know where they're coming from and can barely see them). Trench raids would often come to close quarters, using both specialized and improvised weapons. Taking prisoners was an important part of trench raiding, and with the surrender animations and some imaginative thinking this could even become the base of a game mode. Night patrols would often entail small groups fighting in No Man's Land without proper support, and in close quarters, as they'd stumble upon one another over a crater in the darkness. That should be well within Warband's capabilities, especially if you can add an option to go prone.
It would be more fun AND more accurate, I think.
Valken
Recruit
So unfortunate.....I had been eyeing this mod for a long time last year before having my fill of Warband and moving on to other things.
Now I come back to find out that it was released six months ago and died not soon after. Such a shame since I really am a big WW I fan and was dying to play this mod.
Maybe what this mod requires to revive itself would be some kind of skill that artillery 'spotters' can use to call down a heavy artillery bombardment that engulfs a large area of the battlefield and creeps forward towards the enemy lines at a slow pace causing a lot of destruction and a large cloud of dust allowing the infantry to advance under the cover and assault the enemy trenches in hand-to-hand combat. This would encourage infantry officers, mortar brigades and artillery spotters to co-ordinate their attacks.
To avoid making the artillery too deadly, a cover system could be employed. If a player kneels down at a certain depth ( at the bottom a trench or crater ) he would have a higher chance of surviving the bombardment but would not be able to fire his weapon at the advancing enemy. For those of you who are not familiar with WW I history ( though I am sure all of you are ) artillery was used as a shield for friendly troops by suppressing the enemy fire by forcing them to duck for cover. At least until the barrage was over.
A grande sense of scale could also be given to the battlefield by giving each infantry player on both sides a small squad of bots for them to command. This would help make the battles feel bigger and make the server less reliant on the number of players currently playing.
I have no idea how to mod and I apologise if I have said stuff that was already said before. But I think it could be done. I remember the old M&B had a China WWII mod that had artillery you could call in if you had a radio in your inventory.
I think if you increased the scale of the battles with bots. Gave special player classes powerful skills with long cooldowns heavy artillery bombardements, poison gas shells and small air strikes? Forcing players from all classes to co-ordinate together and plan their attacks ahead of time. It could make a massive revival.
Whether or not these ideas are implemented I still hope the work will continue on this mod and that it makes a big comeback. ( Perhaps artillery will be easier to mod in with M&B II. I hear they are planning to do something new with siege engines.)
Now I come back to find out that it was released six months ago and died not soon after. Such a shame since I really am a big WW I fan and was dying to play this mod.
Maybe what this mod requires to revive itself would be some kind of skill that artillery 'spotters' can use to call down a heavy artillery bombardment that engulfs a large area of the battlefield and creeps forward towards the enemy lines at a slow pace causing a lot of destruction and a large cloud of dust allowing the infantry to advance under the cover and assault the enemy trenches in hand-to-hand combat. This would encourage infantry officers, mortar brigades and artillery spotters to co-ordinate their attacks.
To avoid making the artillery too deadly, a cover system could be employed. If a player kneels down at a certain depth ( at the bottom a trench or crater ) he would have a higher chance of surviving the bombardment but would not be able to fire his weapon at the advancing enemy. For those of you who are not familiar with WW I history ( though I am sure all of you are ) artillery was used as a shield for friendly troops by suppressing the enemy fire by forcing them to duck for cover. At least until the barrage was over.
A grande sense of scale could also be given to the battlefield by giving each infantry player on both sides a small squad of bots for them to command. This would help make the battles feel bigger and make the server less reliant on the number of players currently playing.
I have no idea how to mod and I apologise if I have said stuff that was already said before. But I think it could be done. I remember the old M&B had a China WWII mod that had artillery you could call in if you had a radio in your inventory.
I think if you increased the scale of the battles with bots. Gave special player classes powerful skills with long cooldowns heavy artillery bombardements, poison gas shells and small air strikes? Forcing players from all classes to co-ordinate together and plan their attacks ahead of time. It could make a massive revival.
Whether or not these ideas are implemented I still hope the work will continue on this mod and that it makes a big comeback. ( Perhaps artillery will be easier to mod in with M&B II. I hear they are planning to do something new with siege engines.)
You may have a point that the mod needs a change of focus. However, I still believe that we can successfully create the aspect of WWI that the team is going for. Reviewing the issues with the current mod, we have noticed that there are quite a lot of things that can be improved to give a better trench warfare experience. Map design needs some serious work and some new features can be added to make game play more interesting. I will give a lot more information on our plans when the next developer blog comes around. We're going to give open trench warfare another shot before completely changing the focus of the mod. That is not to say that there is no room for trench raids. You have some great ideas and it could definitely be a unique game-mode.hrotha said:
Calling down artillery has actually already been added to the mod. It still needs a ton of tweaking, but once it's done, it should make open assaults more feasible. As cool as it would be to have a fifty or hundred more soldiers on the battlefield through bots, it would probably just be annoying since they're likely to get stuck in all the barbed wire, craters and trenches on our maps.Valken said:
Thank you both for offering your opinions. They are very much appreciated. It's great that you guys are enthusiastic for a mod revival and are offering constructive feedback rather than being complete downers and believing the mod is over, as many other people are.
