Shield bash?

I reakon the button/s to press would be hold right click for block and left click while still holding the right button to bash...and i love this idea, there are few games that have it but the ones that do i reackon benefit from it. The affect of the bash would either push them to the ground(depending on strength and speed) or just stop them from attacking(like what i do with a lance at slow speed againts an archer).

Keep up the cool suggestions.

I'm all for shield bashes. I think this would be a good way to keep in uncluttered:

Tap right mouse = bash
Hold right mouse = block

Or perhaps pressing attack while holding down block.

Ingolifs said:

Or perhaps pressing attack while holding down block.

Click to expand...

Naa, that would make it a little confusing when you get excited resulting in shield bash instead of attack or vice versa.

I think the best implementation would be a double click on the right mouse button (aka, the Sacred Button of Defending). Although there's another consideration, which is the ability to push people away from you.

In reality, when you're fighting with a polearm against an opponent with a shield, his optimal strike range is WITHIN your range of attack; that is, he's too close for you to hit him. When that happens, the best course of action is to put your pole against his shield, like you were going to cross-check him and push him away. (Actually, in real life, the best course of action is a "J-step", but the computer reacts to quickly for that to be effective.

(The way a J-step works is that when your "sword & board" opponent runs towards you, you side-step so that you're beside him, turn 90° so that you're facing him, and back away. His momentum keeps him moving forward long enough that he ends up in your optimal striking range facing to the side and away from you- about 10 o'clock. I've been annoyed many times at how quickly the computer is able to respond instantaneously to your changes in direction. I think there should be a half-second delay put in, since that's how long it takes an average person to respond as well. Perhaps the NPC's could have an additional "response-time" stat so that higher level fighters react more quickly, but it should never be instantaneous.)

Of course, this opens up a whole can of wyrms (Ha ha) for game alterations. For instance, which fighter moves more when a shield is pushed should depend on relative strength, weight, and momentum; and how much damage it deals should be based on how fast the shield is moving when it hits. My idea is to have it push your opponent away and deal a default damage of 0 and give it a high speed-modifier variable, like charges.

For poles and two-handed weapons, the shield-strike button should either push the opponent away or strike them with the butt of the weapon- with a great sword, you can even strike with the cuillions. Of course then you would need to design weapons with butt-spikes so players can take advantage of this, which inevitably leads to the introduction of the best defensive weapon ever:

The MADU!

The madu in use is held so that the spikes are vertical, and easily and quickly can defend either side of the body, though it is vulnerable to overhand strikes. The best use of it is to parry a blow then put the bottom-spike into your opponent's face. In close quarters, you can reach around your opponent and strike him in the side with the top spike.

Simple Madus are wooden poles with thin metal strapped to make them survive against cutting damage. Believe me, once you've fought Madu, you never go back. But I'm going to make another thread for all this.

... assuming I don't find another in the "common suggestions" thread.

lock it lost lamb

Lord Jaden said:

lock it lost lamb

Click to expand...

errr.... what for?

It's better that starting a new thread

Bigwig said:

I'm all for shield bashes. I think this would be a good way to keep in uncluttered:

Tap right mouse = bash
Hold right mouse = block

Click to expand...

Best suggestion i think!

wxs said:

Bigwig said:

I'm all for shield bashes. I think this would be a good way to keep in uncluttered:

Tap right mouse = bash
Hold right mouse = block

Click to expand...

Best suggestion i think!

Click to expand...

But when you are moving quickly, sometimes a tap is all you use to block. What about stealing a page from Mac's and using CTRL + Right Click? Then CTRL + Left click could do a pommel/butt punch with your weapon.

Alright, so I'm bumping this one last time, mostly because I never stop thinking of small, elegant things to add to combat.

First off, whatever key he maps bashing to, it doesn't really matter.  Bind it to the Use key, give it a seperate key, I'm just going to remap it to the middle mouse button.  Who has a two-button mouse nowadays anyways?

Next, How much effect should the bash have with regards to stunning, pushing, and damage?  I think it makes sense that the sooner in the "bash" you make contact with your opponent the more it should push them, but the less it should hurt them or stun them.  I also think that once you make contact with an object the animation should slow about 25 to 50%.

Finally, what other alternatives should their be for other weapon configurations?  I've come up with ideas for what the shield-bash button should do if you have a spear (thrusting pole), polearm (swinging pole), two-hander, or one-hander without a shield.

For the spear and pole, the obvious choice is a cross-check, but I think they should be handled differently.  For a spear, you lead more heavily with the top hand so that the spear point stays pointed out and you can get back into a thrusting position quickly.  For a pole, you lead with the bottom hand so that you're in position to swing your weapon.

For the two-handed sword, the best idea I came up with was a bash with the cross-guard.  The motion is a simple two-handed punch.

The one-handed sword without shield I figured would be fast enough for a pommel bash.

Using my MS-Paint MasteryTM I created a quick illustration of each attack as seen from above.  To avoid confusion (and too much work on my part) I left out the arms, so the fighter only has a head, shoulder pauldrons, and hands.



Another idea would be to allow either direction of cross-check for all poles and either method of bashing for all swords, with advantages and disadvantages for each, and have them controlled by mouse-movement/enemy-position like attacks.  Now that I've thought of it, I like this idea best.

Lastly, I truly hope that the effect (damage, knock-down) of a bash is tied to the relative speed, strength, and weight of the two fighters.  It would be funny if a peasant that tried to bash a charging Sargeant got knocked on his ass (or off his ass if he's mounted. )

One more suggestion, and one that is necessary, in my opinion.  A tackle option.  When you only have a one-handed weapon and no shield, you push them down and then stab them, ignoring armor.  Whether or not the tackled person frees himself is based on opposed strength tests, I suppose.  To avoid making it unbalancing, this should actually take a while, during which they can swing at you, as can their allies.  Also, if you are hit while trying to tackle, it cancels the effect.

I feel this needs to be put in, because by adding a shieldbash, stunning should become less of a maneuver with a sword and more the shield.  I am currently all for the stunlock effect to simulate grappling, but when shieldbash comes in, and alternate attacks being suggested, I felt it was worth throwing in my $.02

It is very cool to see these moves in game. But I don't think they would work for the advantage of the player character.

Enemy can use them faster than your characters (more precisely, they can re-commencing the attack faster than player characters) so you'll certainly ended up with being bashed and then smash! while you're stunlocked, rather than bashing your opponents. And if you're facing multiple opponent, you're dead.

It tends to be like that anyway already, and if you get a bash in that manages to get some distance between you...

This is a really great idea!

Shield bashing would be perfect for Roma Invicta mod!

No new bindings are needed. The best control suggestion was on the first page:

Run into someone while blocking.

This should cause knockback, stun and possibly knockdown.

Easy, elegant sophistication.

Eird-Way said:

No new bindings are needed. The best control suggestion was on the first page:

Run into someone while blocking.

This should cause knockback, stun and possibly knockdown.

Easy, elegant sophistication.

Click to expand...

I agree entirely. Shield bash should be simple, easy to use, and relatively realistic. Above all, though, it just needs to be in the game.

Eird-Way said:

Run into someone while blocking.

Click to expand...

And if you're shield-bashing him to put some space in between you so you can run away?

You can do an about-face pretty quickly, I think. If the shield bash leaves him unable to attack for a moment, you should be able to get away just fine.

Bind it to the 'f' button, or when you have a block up and press attack.