"My martial art is better than yours, nyaa!"

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But the lesson is that in the clutch situation, just pounding on the other guy generally is what will happen.
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Well, that's exactly what happened in the first UFC's, except with grapplers. The truth is not that "fancy" stuff like Aikido, Kung Fu, Taekwondo or whatever are *worse* than Wrestling, Jiu-Jitsu or Judo, the thing is their techniques are a lot harder to pull off then the latter and a lot, *a ****ing lot* less practical.

Bruce Lee is quoted as saying that someone with 1 year of training in Boxing and Wrestling would be able to beat the vast majority of black belts. He was a man ahead of his time, as we all know.
 
For one on one, grappling styles are far better. For multiple opponents kung fu and similar styles are much better. All there is to it.
 
El Duke said:
But the lesson is that in the clutch situation, just pounding on the other guy generally is what will happen.
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Well, that's exactly what happened in the first UFC's, except with grapplers. The truth is not that "fancy" stuff like Aikido, Kung Fu, Taekwondo or whatever are *worse* than Wrestling, Jiu-Jitsu or Judo, the thing is their techniques are a lot harder to pull off then the latter and a lot, *a ****ing lot* less practical.

Bruce Lee is quoted as saying that someone with 1 year of training in Boxing and Wrestling would be able to beat the vast majority of black belts. He was a man ahead of his time, as we all know.
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What do you mean by "fancy stuff"? Many of the things you see people doing in martial arts are not things they would try to pull off in an actual fight, just things that work on speed, agility, etc. Another important point is that the way a martial artist would react in an actual fight situation is different than what they would do if they were sparring in a tournament. In a tournament you want clean, well-executed techniques that will score you points, not groundfighting where the judges can't really see anything clearly. Just because you don't see people using grappling etc in tournaments doesn't mean they don't know how to use it.

Also, do you have a link for that quote? It's not that I don't believe you, just that I want to know more about it. (Couldn't find anything on google.)
 
No link to that quote, it's actually just something his students quote him as saying (it's in one of the many documentaries about him, Dan Inosanto says it), not something he wrote or said in an interview.

What do you mean by "fancy stuff"? Many of the things you see people doing in martial arts are not things they would try to pull off in an actual fight, just things that work on speed, agility, etc. Another important point is that the way a martial artist would react in an actual fight situation is different than what they would do if they were sparring in a tournament. In a tournament you want clean, well-executed techniques that will score you points, not groundfighting where the judges can't really see anything clearly. Just because you don't see people using grappling etc in tournaments doesn't mean they don't know how to use it.
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Well, what are you saying? That Taekwon-do black belts are masters of ground fighting?  :roll: . I"m not trying to crap on any martial arts here, we are just discussing wich is more effective, and that's a highly circunstantial/debatable thing. If you are a 6'1 freak with legs like tree trunks and a good kowledge of grappling (a.k.a Mirko Filipovic) kicking someone on the head might be a possibility, but on a really tight spot, do you think anyone can solely rely on roundkciking someone in the head? It will be very hard doing it to a bigger, faster opponent, specially one that knows his stuff. It will be only one chance at doing it, after that, avoiding a clinch is *very* hard and when jumping around kicking you are *very* vulnerable to takedowns. It's just easier and better to learn some boxing and grappling if we are talking about fighting.
 
Judo is a great martial art. My friend takes it and I take TKD. Between this, it's a matter of knowing the opponent's fighting style. I know not to kick from far away because he'll rush in and grab me and take me down. Judo wins. But if I'm careful and see an opening, I go for it. Sometimes it makes him dizzy. Sometimes it's a head kick so I win.

Yes. Some styles are considered better than others. I don't know what is the best, but I love TKD. I just think that people are more skilled at their fighting style or their fighting style is easier to pick up and learn than others. Some have more rigorous training than others.

Also, fighting in a tournament or a ring is different than in real life. In rings, judges want clean hits.

PS: TKD=Tae-Kwon-Do to clear up some things.
 
El Duke said:
No link to that quote, it's actually just something his students quote him as saying (it's in one of the many documentaries about him, Dan Inosanto says it), not something he wrote or said in an interview.

What do you mean by "fancy stuff"? Many of the things you see people doing in martial arts are not things they would try to pull off in an actual fight, just things that work on speed, agility, etc. Another important point is that the way a martial artist would react in an actual fight situation is different than what they would do if they were sparring in a tournament. In a tournament you want clean, well-executed techniques that will score you points, not groundfighting where the judges can't really see anything clearly. Just because you don't see people using grappling etc in tournaments doesn't mean they don't know how to use it.
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Well, what are you saying? That Taekwon-do black belts are masters of ground fighting?  :roll: . I"m not trying to crap on any martial arts here, we are just discussing wich is more effective, and that's a highly circunstantial/debatable thing. If you are a 6'1 freak with legs like tree trunks and a good kowledge of grappling (a.k.a Mirko Filipovic) kicking someone on the head might be a possibility, but on a really tight spot, do you think anyone can solely rely on roundkciking someone in the head? It will be very hard doing it to a bigger, faster opponent, specially one that knows his stuff. It will be only one chance at doing it, after that, avoiding a clinch is *very* hard and when jumping around kicking you are *very* vulnerable to takedowns. It's just easier and better to learn some boxing and grappling if we are talking about fighting.
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Well, I never claimed that taekwondo black belts were "masters of groundfighting". I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to other comments in the thread in that particular part of my above post.
Also, I don't think I ever said that in a real fight kicks to the head would be practical, on the contrary, I said quite the opposite.
When I said that martial artists studying Taekwondo know how to grapple, I was simply pointing out that we know more techniques than the ones you see us doing on TV or on youtube, which is what many people who have posted in this thread seem to think.
 
Thus spake Nosferatu said:
For one on one, grappling styles are far better. For multiple opponents kung fu cross country and similar styles are much better. All there is to it.
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That, I believe, is what you meant to say.  Note:  Driving, sprinting, biking, parkour, free-running, and other forms of rapid egress all have their uses depending on means, terrain, and environment.  :razz:

You were thinking of parkour.  Added, and thanks. 
 
Merentha said:
Thus spake Nosferatu said:
For one on one, grappling styles are far better. For multiple opponents kung fu cross country and similar styles are much better. All there is to it.
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That, I believe, is what you meant to say.  Note:  Driving, sprinting, biking, and other forms of rapid egress all have their uses depending on means, terrain, and environment.   :razz:
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Heh, what's the name of that french thing where folks jump buildings and stuff..."Parcour"?  :lol:

There are also very light handguns that can hold 15 or more shots (Glock?)  :razz:

I think easily beating ( or just beating for that matter!) multiple enemies is something only seem on movies. I can't even picture the thoughest son of ***** in the world beating 3 or 4 guys ganging up on him, 3 or 4 guys that are not starving emo kids that is. Specially 3 or 4 guys that can fight ( Except if we are talking about Fedor Emelianenko or Chuck Norris ).

Jack Dempsey knocked out two young thughs who tried to mug him when he was in his 60's. That's a rare case study  :wink:
 
alexyoo93 said:
Judo is a great martial art. My friend takes it and I take TKD. Between this, it's a matter of knowing the opponent's fighting style. I know not to kick from far away because he'll rush in and grab me and take me down. Judo wins. But if I'm careful and see an opening, I go for it. Sometimes it makes him dizzy. Sometimes it's a head kick so I win.

Yes. Some styles are considered better than others. I don't know what is the best, but I love TKD. I just think that people are more skilled at their fighting style or their fighting style is easier to pick up and learn than others. Some have more rigorous training than others.

Also, fighting in a tournament or a ring is different than in real life. In rings, judges want clean hits.

PS: TKD=Tae-Kwon-Do to clear up some things.
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Well, like I said for one on one wrestling and other grappling will win hands down. Very easily. Boxing has the best chance, but very little.

I wrestled back in the day and my brother does jiu jitsu with the ultimate fighting guys.

It's hard to compare a fight between semi normal people and experts with goofy mismatched fighting styles, but I think with two normalish guys with a modicum of training but are not the best in the world, there is no real doubt that anyone knowledgable gives that it is the best thing. Just try to punch a guy who is used to any form of grappling. You get one shot, and that's it. If he is prepared you probably can't land a punch on him. I have had some guys who were well trained boxers try and completely fail.

HOWEVER, like I said this is pretty useless against multiple opponents.

Wein chun or kung fu are the bomb then, but kung fu takes an inordinant amount of training to be really effective, and is more for fighting with weapons than barehanded.
 
Thus spake Nosferatu said:
alexyoo93 said:
Judo is a great martial art. My friend takes it and I take TKD. Between this, it's a matter of knowing the opponent's fighting style. I know not to kick from far away because he'll rush in and grab me and take me down. Judo wins. But if I'm careful and see an opening, I go for it. Sometimes it makes him dizzy. Sometimes it's a head kick so I win.

Yes. Some styles are considered better than others. I don't know what is the best, but I love TKD. I just think that people are more skilled at their fighting style or their fighting style is easier to pick up and learn than others. Some have more rigorous training than others.

Also, fighting in a tournament or a ring is different than in real life. In rings, judges want clean hits.

PS: TKD=Tae-Kwon-Do to clear up some things.
Click to expand...

Well, like I said for one on one wrestling and other grappling will win hands down. Very easily. Boxing has the best chance, but very little.

I wrestled back in the day and my brother does jiu jitsu with the ultimate fighting guys.

It's hard to compare a fight between semi normal people and experts with goofy mismatched fighting styles, but I think with two normalish guys with a modicum of training but are not the best in the world, there is no real doubt that anyone knowledgable gives that it is the best thing. Just try to punch a guy who is used to any form of grappling. You get one shot, and that's it. If he is prepared you probably can't land a punch on him. I have had some guys who were well trained boxers try and completely fail.

HOWEVER, like I said this is pretty useless against multiple opponents.

Wein chun or kung fu are the bomb then, but kung fu takes an inordinant amount of training to be really effective, and is more for fighting with weapons than barehanded.
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I agree with you that any martial arts against grappling techniques is kind of useless. The guy taking martial arts has one chance to knockout someone before the other guy can come in and grapple you. Unless you're REALLY strong or skilled, it's near impossible to do that.
 
You all have to admit that there's one fighting technique that can drop almost any wrestler, boxer or kung-fu master with a single blow, and you can't do anything about that.
I'm talking about the Sacred school of Hokuto, and the technique of the Fist of the Northstar can kill you outright regardless if you're one on one, or one against ten thugs:
ken.jpg


You are already dead while you're reading this post. So take your time to repent of your sins... if you wish.
5... 4... 3... 2...
 
I have absolutely no martial arts training, and when fighting I go for grabbing ASAP because a few punches can knock you down, so, as I can't effectively hit (or hurt) my opponent with kicks and punches, my only solution is close combat at which I am surprisingly successful (considering my lack of training).

Also, as many of you said, after a while, all 'real' fights will turn into grabbing and the likes, so few martial arts can actually be effective.

As such, I believe Wrestling, Judo and Greco-Roman Fight are the best for real combat situations.
 
Corinthian Hoplite said:
As such, I believe Wrestling, Judo and Greco-Roman Fight are the best for real combat situations.
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I firmly believe that RUNNING AWAY is the best for real combat situations, especially those involving sharp, pointy implements of violence... Hence, parkour (being able to jump across walls and fences without losing speed is definitely a skill worth mastering)!
If forced to fight against ONE opponent, I agree that it's best to know how to grapple, since it's inevitably going to end that way... I'm a judo black belt, took a few years of Aikido classes, and I can say that untrained (at least, not trained in martial arts) are quite difficult to fight because of the unpredictability of their moves; one the other hand, there's a lot that can be done by twisting people's wrist, elbow and shoulder articulations, and that's where judo can have its uses...
 
actually, the most effective and dangerous joint dislocator I've ever seen was a jiu jitsu guy. Where judo throws you around, jiu jitsu just breaks every bone you can find in your body in a way you can't do anything against it..
 
Some martial arts teach you pressure points. (TKD, Ju Jitsu, Judo *Probably are more but these are the ones I'm sure about*) Those are sometimes useful.

Running away is only a good option if:
A) You know you're faster
B) The guy has a sharp/blunt weapon (Baseball bat, knife, etc.)
C) The guy DOES'NT have a gun
 
Merlkir said:
actually, the most effective and dangerous joint dislocator I've ever seen was a jiu jitsu guy. Where judo throws you around, jiu jitsu just breaks every bone you can find in your body in a way you can't do anything against it..
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Dunno, never actually tried ju-jitsu... From your post, I'd surmise you never saw a REAL judo competition, in which quite a lot of the fights are ended grappling on the ground (most of the other ones end with an Ippon because one of the two was made careless by fear of being grounded...): we actually KNOW how to break articulations (they snap easier than bones), it's just that it's unpolite to do so :smile:
My aikido teacher often chose me for demonstrations, and bent my wrists, elbows and shoulders in very painful ways, and with no real effort...
 
Boxing owns all.  :grin:

I do boxing, and i used to do Greco-roman wrestling.




EDIT: oh yeah and a bit of Aikido too, but Aikido isnt much twisting wrists or breaking bones, Aikido is to be able to defeat an opponent thats much heavier and stronger than you by using their own weight against them.It requires almost no effort. It's also not competitive, so you wont be seeing Aikido competitions going on unless your in japan lol.

 
Russian Knight said:
Boxing owns all.  :grin:
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...untill a wrestler puts you in a double arm-bar and knifes you in the back, yes.

Russian Knight said:
I do boxing, and i used to do Greco-roman wrestling.
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Remind me to never get in a fight with you.  :lol:

Russian Knight said:
EDIT: oh yeah and a bit of Aikido too, but Aikido isnt much twisting wrists or breaking bones, Aikido is to be able to defeat an opponent thats much heavier and stronger than you by using their own weight against them.It requires almost no effort. It's also not competitive, so you wont be seeing Aikido competitions going on unless your in japan lol.
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Either way, it is leverage (to controll your opponent), psychology (no better advantage), and raw strength (doesn't matter who you're fighting if you can take them down with one hit) that are the deciding factors in fighting. Thus any martial art which trains the fighter in all of the above will be effective.
 
Archonsod said:
Mr Molotov's art of cocktails, even government soldiers fear his disciples.
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Yes we do.

However, if the person who threw it at you doesn't throw it right and it doesn't break, he's in for a hell of a time.

I couldn't tell you how much I hated those things.  :mad:
 
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