Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord Old Discussion Thread

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VictorF@ Even if not at the base game, i would love to see raidable places like dungeons, ruins and the like, a few mods/dlc have them, from my mind i remember some quests from ACOK which you fight people in abandoned groves/ruins, also Brytenwalda and Viking Conquest are full of these places where you can get some of the best weapons and armors of the game after clearing them. Since the base game will at least have dungeon sets available to modders, i'm sure people will find all kinds of cool uses for them (if they are going to have dungeons in multiplayer maps the sets will be there to use and expand to our hearts content)
 
Uesugi Kenshin said:
AmateurHetman said:
Some interesting points I found in the PCgamer article:
-Quests will be procedurally generated and have multiple choices/outcomes.
-One faction will be openly hostile to you from the onset of your walkthrough; the Khuzaits. Perhaps they are like a mongol horde attempting to invade Calradia.
-Tournaments are better balanced and offer bigger rewards; the character in the playthrough recieved 'expensive armour'.
-NPCs can recruit troops for you, depending on your relation, you will get better and more troops if you are friendlier with them.
-Interesting scenario mentioned, where player has the option to be honest or lie, which in my opinion will provide a really immersive experience, as you can determine what your character's personality is like through actions/dialogues.
The sentence is not very clear but I think it is more like"Each campaign will have you start at odds with a faction e.g: the Khuzaits for Yasmine.
I suppose that makes sense. Perhaps depending on which splinter of the faction the player goes through at the beginning will determine which factions will dislike them.
 
Hoping we see that "hour"  vid and not just a blog-post telling us about it nor a 5 min vid going over the "major" things. I'm thinking it'll be a good idea to have deployables (traps or anit-cav spikes, or walls made out of wagons/dead people) for particular battles (ambushes, defense while encamped).

Hope they go into detail about those Quests as well :grin: 
 
I'm just excited to see how they make Battania specialized in forest warfare. Better be some special ability such as hiding in forest areas or something.
 
Reus said:
I'm just excited to see how they make Battania specialized in forest warfare. Better be some special ability such as hiding in forest areas or something.

My guess is other factions get a speed penalty while travelling thru Battanian land or just forests, Battania might get a speed buff so they can replicate the hit and run tactics. It'll be impossible to chase them down and you'll be prone to a lot of ambushes do to your speed.
 
My bet is they wont make any special feature and just added the forest warfare thing for lore.

Like... Sarranids are specialized in desert warfare arent they? Do they gain bonuses when fighting on deserts? No. And i doubt they will.




Lower your hype everybody. LOWER IT.    DO IT
 
Wulfburk said:
My bet is they wont make any special feature and just added the forest warfare thing for lore.

Like... Sarranids are specialized in desert warfare arent they? Do they gain bonuses when fighting on deserts? No. And i doubt they will.




Lower your hype everybody. LOWER IT.    DO IT

I thought the Sarranids had better army compositions for desert warfare? Highly mobile light cavalry and mounted archers make better use of the wide open terrain.

For forests you'd need to have a high infantry speed for flanking and big, two-handed axes/swords for chopping through shield walls, plus cavalry that are highly maneuverable and light. Melee would be the main focus of forest "warfare", archers and cavalry distant seconds with melee-capable ranged infantry supporting your heavy melee troops. The Nords, basically.
 
Its what im saying, specialized in forest warfare probably just meant army composition, and not a campaign map or even battle map bonus when in such situation.
 
Reus said:
I'm just excited to see how they make Battania specialized in forest warfare. Better be some special ability such as hiding in forest areas or something.

Maybe there will be a simple stealth element. AI have a line of sight. If they don't see you or troops, you aren't there.
 
This may have already been discussed, but I'm going to say it anyway. Something I'm really hoping from this game is that becoming a lord/ruler is not the only mid/late game option. Bandit lord, mercenary party, these things should be fleshed out as a playstyle, rather than as stepping stones on the only path you can take. For one, attacking caravans should not garner any negative relation with a faction unless people are able to successfully flee from you. This alone makes attacking caravans a viable option for mid game players who are unable to take on lords, and can give a lot of gold and make this type of play sustainable. More mercenary missions--clearing out ruins, killing bandits, etc, should be available, as well as participating in wars only for a certain amount of time. Sometimes I don't want to become a lord, but the gameplay before a lord is only a precursor in warband, as it's nearly impossible to sustain large numbers any other way. Making a bandit hideout or mercenary outpost, these should be part of these alternative paths.
 
Flying Dutchman said:
Grimaldus said:
For one, attacking caravans should not garner any negative relation with a faction unless people are able to successfully flee from you.
You have my vote :party:
So long as the caravan attacked Isn't in visible range of other parties or nearby fiefs I agree with this.
 
Wulfburk said:
My bet is they wont make any special feature and just added the forest warfare thing for lore.

Like... Sarranids are specialized in desert warfare arent they? Do they gain bonuses when fighting on deserts? No. And i doubt they will.




Lower your hype everybody. LOWER IT.    DO IT

Sadly, probably you are right but i want to believe there are special features in combat mechanics.
 
Wulfburk said:
My bet is they wont make any special feature and just added the forest warfare thing for lore.

Like... Sarranids are specialized in desert warfare arent they? Do they gain bonuses when fighting on deserts? No. And i doubt they will.

There is an Ambush mechanic (or at least it has been alluded to as we are short on details). Presumably Battanians would be the ambush faction and maybe gain bonuses to it?

Lower your hype everybody. LOWER IT.    DO IT

hype.jpg
 
Here is the entire text if you wanna read it from here.

[quote author=Nani_The_Great(From-Reddit)]Mount and Blade is an unlikely success story of the kind that only happens on PC. Awkward, weird, and not particularly pretty, it's nontheless a triumph of sandbox design. It mixes tactical combat, RPG progression and strategic simulation, all in a sandbox world full of possibilities. In Mount & Blade: Warband, 2010's standalone expansion and easily the best game in the series so far, the players have free rein to explore a massive, politically intriguing medieval kingdom.
Now, after years of waiting, a full sequel is on the way. TaleWorlds' sizeable, dedicated fan base has been clamouring for Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord ever since it's announcement back in 2012. It's one of my most anticipated games of the year, and I'm excited to find out how it has progressed since the first footage shown at last year's PC Gamer Weekender.
TaleWorlds doesn't disappoint, and I get to watch as community manager Frank Elliott plays through an hour of a new campaign.
A new character, Yasmin, is created. She's spawned into the Southern Empire - a once mighty Imperial power, now on the brink of collapse. Bannerlord is set 200 years before Warband, and depicts the early days of some of this world's great powers. Despite the fictional nations, this is not fantasy land. Weapons, armour and architecture are all designed to resemble historical equivalents from between 600 and 1100 AD.
Character creation is skipped in the demo - TaleWorlds has previously shown off the varied creation sliders, but isn't ready to detail the full extent of customisation. Needless to say, there should be plenty of options, including new builds that are part of an improved progression system. "Bannerlord's skill system builds upon what we had in Warband," says CEO Armagan Yavuz, "but it is vastly improved and in many ways much deeper and more fun. We have traits, skills and perks that work together in an interesting and unique way. Each skill has its own kind of XP category and is exercised individually. For example, you improve the Tracking skill by finding older and more difficult to find tracks."
Entering the nearby city of Syronaea, Yasmin goes looking for a job. As in Warband, settlements can be traversed on foot, or via a menu. You're free to explore each town, village, and castle, or, if you're in a hurry, can choose to instantly access essential services. New for Bannerlord, important NPCs can be directly accesssed through the meny too, teleporting you to their location to instantly pick up a quest.
Settlements are also where you expand your army. This is an important part of Mount & Blade. You can travel alone, but you'll be at the mercy of bandits and rival factions. It's better to have at least a small band of troops.
In Warband, you could visit villages and attempt to rally volunteers to your cause. In Bannerlord, troops are provided by important NPCs. The better your relationship with that person, the more soldiers you'll receive for your gold. Of course, each major NPC has different desires and allegiances, and working with one may put you at odds with another. Bannerlord isn't just about building alliances with the people you meet. In most situations you'll be picking a side, and that will have effects both on the specific people involved and the population at large.
ALLIES AND ALLEYS
As a new character with no notoriety, Yasmin is only able to acquire a single soldier per each 100 gold she pays. She nevertheless hires a few troops, and accepts a quest from Suterios the Sutler, a local merchant. He has a problem with a local gang of smugglers, who have taken over an alley that coujld otherwise be used for legitimate market stalls. Yasmin is tasked with clearing them out. This quest ties into what Yavuz describes as a desire to make towns more interesting by adding "oppurtuniities for you to get into trouble." Towns and villages have back alleys and other areas of interest that are a point of conflict. The controlling faction can change based on your actions - it's even possible to take ownership of them yourself.
Yasmin's new troops can't enter the settlement, and so can't help clear the alley. Instead, Yasmin heads to the nearby tavern to find mercenaries for hire. These, as in Warband, are named companions with a backstory and special traits. Yasmin chooses Garitops the Golden, a heavy-set cavalryman, and Urios the Bull, a heavy-set swordsman. Less than ten minutes in, and she already has a type.
Companions are more expensive to hire than regular soldiers, but worth it if used effectively. Here, Yasmin has them follow her to the alley as backup. As she approaches, the smugglers stand up for their turf. It's the usual tough talk between the two sides who are readying for a fight, but the smugglers reveal that they are friends with the Oath Keepers - a local syndicate. They give Yasmin the option to switch sides - betraying Suterios and the merchants. "We are trying to make it so all quests have multiple ways to resolve them," Yavuz tells me.
Because of its sandbox nature, Mount & Blade's quests are procedurally generated around a number of set templates. They can have a great effect on the overall story of your campaign, but no individual quest ever felt like a compelling story by itself. Not only is Bannerlord attempting to increase the complexity of these scenarios, but their generation is now based on what's happening out in the world. That means you'll only get a quest to hunt down bandits if a settlement has a bandit problem.
Everything is tied more fully into the sandbox. That's important, because the simulation is the story. The narrative changes based around your actions. While there will be a more traditional story, it's mostly optional, and designed purely to get new players familiar with Bannerlord's world and systems. [Editors note: This part of the album was an absolute nightmare to discern and took me at least half a minute more than it should have.]
SMUGGLERS' DOOM*
Yasmin stays local and attacks the bandits. As in Warband, Bannerlord's swordplay is about directional strikes and blocks. It's not a complicated system, but does require some finesse. Your character's stats have an effect, as do your weapons and armour, but most important is your own ability. No matter your experience or equipment, you've got a better chance of survival if you can avoid being hit.
With the smugglers dead, Yasmin hands over control of the alley to Suterios. Not only is she given a reward, and the chance to steal and sell the bandits' loot, but the reputation increase means Suterios will now offer more mercenaries per payment of 100 gold - doubling the basic rate. Pretty soon, Yasmin is leading a small army.
Getting to know an important NPC doesn't just confer a recruitment bonus. Later in the game, your friends will offer more services. "For example," says Yavuz, "if you need to kidnap someone, that will be much easier if you have some friendly NPC's in the town. They open up oppurtunities for mischief." The service is based on the type of NPC you befriend. "Merchant NPCs give you an advantage in trading. A gang leader can give you advantages in 'special operations'," Yavuz says.
Before leaving the town, Yasmin joins a local tournament. Arena tournaments were a feature of Warband, but here they've been rebalanced so that each side is wielding the same equipment. In the first round, Yasmin, Urios, and two other fighters are up against a team that includes Garitrops the Golden. Yasmin wins, and, partnered with Urios, progresses through to a final round where they're pitted head to head. Yasmin walks out the victor, and earns some expensive-looking armour for her efforts.
Tournaments, as in Warband, are just a small part of the bigger game, but feel important for the fantasy. For me, Mount & Blade finds a captivating midpoint between Skyrim and Crusader Kings II. The former is reflected by your freedom, and the ability to choose any role, from noble lord to fiendish bandit. But instead of a linear progression around set narratives, Mount & Blade's story is emergent - a trade-off between your actions and that of the other AI characters. It feels grand in scope, but still lets you focus in on personal achievements and actions.
Victory achieved, Yasmin and her army leave the town. It's here, on the world map, that the sandbox meets the simulation. On the map, you can see traders, knights and bandits, all scurrying around to complete their task. One such group - a band of forest bandits - intercepts Yasmin as she journeys to a nearby castle. This triggers a dialogue scene in which the player can choose to fight, surrender or negotiate. The bandits are tough, and the two sides are evenly matched. Not one to back down from a fight, Yasmin charges into battle.
You directly control your character at all times, whether fighting a handful of smugglers, or leading an army against a gang of bandits. The difference when fighting out in the world is the ability to command your troops. It's a simple system, letting you give basic orders and place markers to set positions. This is no Total War - the AI is much more autonomous - but it's still possible to set up cavalry flanking charges, or to move archers to a more advantageous position.
KING OF THE HILL
In Bannerlord, armies can be asked to attack or defend a location. This has a major effect on the behavior of the enemy AI. A defending army won't necessarily charge at your position, and may instead move to a higher ground. That won't always be the case, though. Even a defending army will hunt you down if they think they've a chance to quickly take you out. TaleWorlds hasn't yet decided on a unit cap for battles. It's possible to have hundreds of soldiers per side, but too many causes performance issues. This battle is composed of just 18 soldiers, and so there's little need for advanced tactics. The bandits are taken out with ease.
The battlefield is looted, and prisoners are captured. Both loot and prisoners acn be traded for money to buy new equipment and food to sustain the army. In addition, some of Yasmin's soldiers have levelled up. It's one thing to have a large army, but basic recruits are quickly dispatched. Here, too, there are advantages to having friends among the right locals. Certain NPC's can recruit more experienced volunteers of different specialities. Carrying out missions for the right people can lead to a more varied and effective army.
Eventually, Yasmin meets with Sanion, a lord of the house Mestricaros. She's asked to train up a small band of his troops - leading them into small skirmishes to gain experience. Such missions can be more lucrative than those undertaken for a merchant, but have a greater impact on the sandbox. The danger is in drawing the ire of a rival lord, potentially leading to a deadly confrontation. With a bolstered retinue, Yasmin tracks down more bandits to test her borrowed recruits. A few battles later, and they've gained the necessary experience - although two were killed in the process. The outcome of the quest depends on how many troops survive. Just a few casualties, and the lord should be pretty pleased. But too many deaths could sour your relationship.
Yasmin returns to Sanion's castle, but he's not there. Lords are always on the move, leading their armies on campaigns across their territory. It's possible to find the last known location of the lord through the game menu, or by talking to the NPCs in their castle, but sometimes you just have to ride out and attempt to hunt them down. As Yasmin scouts the hills within Sanion's territory, she encounters a man called Ilatar. He proclaims peace, and asks who he's talking to. Yasmin answers truthfully, and Ilatar reveals he's from a clan in Khuzait. When you start a Bannerlord campaign, one of the other world powers will be openly hostile to you. The Khuzait - a nation of skilled horse arhers, are Yasmin's enemies, and Ilatar prepares to attack. She's outnumbered; he's commanding 66 men to her 18. The battle is quick, and Yasmin is captured.
DISMOUNTED
That's how it goes in Mount & Blade. The simulation is always moving, and indifferent to your actions. Why Ilatar was in the Southern Realms doesn't matter - it led to a chance encounter that left Yasmin imprisoned and her army destroyed. It can be frustrating to run into such a powerful opponent so early, but gives the world a sense of unpredictability and danger. No two sessions are the same, and Bannerlord aims to heighten that variety.
This is where the demo ends, but, had it not, Yasmin's journey still wouldn't have been over. Prisoners will escape after a time, and, even when you're stripped of your soldiers and resources, the relationships you build remain intact.
It's clear from what I've seen that Bannerlord isn't revolutionising Mount & Blade. This is a major progression of the series, focused primarily on tweaks and improvements. "We have been working on almost all aspects of the game," says Yavuz. "There are many other new features that we couldn't show in the demo such as the political and diplomatic system, better town management, a new and revamped character development, a crafting system, to name a few." Add to that multiplayer improvements and better mod support, and it's a significant overhaul of a familiar experience.
It explains why Bannerlord has been so long in the making. "We are trying to make the best game we possibly can," says Ali Erkin, TaleWorlds' managing director, "and this unfortunately has meant going back to the design board in certain cases, rethinking certain features, or rewriting a piece of code that doesn't perform as well as it should." By way of an example, Erkin reveals that the character development system has been reworked three times from scratch. "When all is done and we see a system working really well, we feel that it was worth the extra time and effort," Erkin continues. "While we missed our 2016 target, we are confident we'll be able to get the game out in some form this year."
I hope so. Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord probably won't be the most polished game released this year, but, all being well, it will be a deep, varied sandbox game that welcomes new players and satisfies existing fans. TaleWorlds has made one of PC gaming's most endearing cult favourites, and the studio seems set to improve on it in almost every way. If this extra development time pays off, Bannerlord could well prove to be one of the year's best RPGs.
BONUS
Calradic Empire - A diminished, once dominant empire, now locked in a three-way civil war. Specializes in: Armoured cataphracts and skilled archers.
Aserai - Desert people who farm at oases, springs and the shore of the great southern lake. Specialises in: Fast-moving medium cavalry with spears.
Vlandians - The best faction. Specialises in: Oh, we wouldn't want to make the rest of you feel inferior.
Battanians - Inhabitants of northwestern Calradia, holed up in the mountains after imperial expansion. Specialises in: Forest warfare, and use of longbows.
Sturgians - Natives of the northern forests, and traders and adventurers from the far north. Specialises in: Infantry fighters in shield-wall formations.
Khuzaits - Swept out of the eastern steppes and seized a chain of frontier trading city-states for themselves. Specialises in: Deadly, fast-moving horse archers.[/quote]
 
Pilum said:
Plovercrest said:
Maybe there will be a simple stealth element. AI have a line of sight. If they don't see you or troops, you aren't there.

Is that confirmed, AI line of sight?

For units? I dont recall anyone ever saying anything like that, not to mention that it would be stupid. You would have to search the enemy inside the keep and then lead your soldiers to it. Or if they searched on their own it would just make the battle longer without any action happening.
 
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