Historic Thread for Floris Workshop Development.

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Ephafn said:
Anyway, I played a little version 0.05 (starting from scratch), and I get the feeling I installed it incorrectly, as there are a bunch of text errors all over the place. For example, when using the new deploy mode, I get told to press 'G' to start the battle (this make me drop my weapon), while the correct button is 'F'. When using the F* buttons in battle, the extra options are labelled A,B,C,D,... instead of F5,F6,F7,F8,... Oh, and when I died in a tournament, the message about the camera mention dousing out fires or something...
Sounds like something is out of alignment for the strings.  If you started a new game, is it still doing it?

As for the new feature, the only can comment on is the new morale system. While I really like the idea, especially as it promises to allow decent morale with the large late-game armies, it is not very fun when you start out with small armies. I had desertions happen when I was at around 30 troops, too poor to afford better food, and too low level to have good charisma/leadership morale bonus. The only way I could see to make the early game more playable, but without sacrificing the late game improvement, would be to add some kind of bonus that would only be relevant for small (<50) armies. Maybe a "plenty of food" bonus of +1 morale for every day of food you have in your inventory?
I'll look into the plenty of food idea.  It is a good one as I do not want smaller parties destroyed by the morale change.  I do want you to be forced to think about how long you're on the march, how often you're engaging in battle, what kind of troops you're packing and the circumstances you're entering fights with.  The native mechanic of simply penalizing you for party size was done as a balancing measure, but makes absolutely no sense.  Even if I thought they were all a bunch of asses, I'd still rather have 300 soldiers on my side of the conflict vs. 30 loyal friends if we're going up against 300 enemies.  Yet there should be some benefit for a small party with a certain level of unity.

I'm tempting to have a few other factors count in.
Days without combat -> positive modifier.  I know I'd be happy if you kept me from trying not to die daily.
Mercenaries -> negative modifier.  They care nothing for your goals, have no love of your fellow soldiers and desire only coin.
Party Unity -> positive/negative depending on circumstances. 

Start with a base positive value: + [(combined leadership scores of every companion + player)*3]
[*] Subtract by 1 for every 3 troops you have of the same faction as yourself.
[*] Subtract by 1 for each troop you have of a faction not your own.
[*] Subtract by 2 for each troop you have that is a mercenary.
 
Hey windy,

Sorry i haven't been active lately.... finally landed a decent job and they've been initiating me so it going to a rough first few weeks. Anyway your new Morale system seems interesting but how will it interact with quatlity of troop morale mod already in floris? I know your running on vanilla so it's probably not included now but if your planning on putting it into floris, is is it a replacement or an addition? I also usually prefer to run with a smaller force on purpose. For various reasons from food to wages i've always had a preference for a small elite army and not a massive horde. I guess my question here is whats the definition of a small, medium and large army in relation to this new morale system?
 
Bankoleva said:
Sorry i haven't been active lately.... finally landed a decent job and they've been initiating me
Congrats :smile:

Anyway your new Morale system seems interesting but how will it interact with quatlity of troop morale mod already in floris?
I can't say this will ever make it into Floris unless it is proven to be a stable and viable alternative to what Floris already has.  Thus exactly why I want to introduce and tweak it here.  I do believe a change for the Floris mod's morale system is needed, however, as morale is never an aspect of challenge in the game and it certainly should be.  Either that or it should simply be removed.  Adding in the companion management system's storekeeper allows a party to carry far more food variety than it likely would have natively (or in Floris) which could use a tweak to the morale system to compensate.

I know your running on vanilla so it's probably not included now but if your planning on putting it into floris, is is it a replacement or an addition?
Assuming this system is tweaked into a good value range it would likely be a replacement.

I also usually prefer to run with a smaller force on purpose. For various reasons from food to wages i've always had a preference for a small elite army and not a massive horde. I guess my question here is whats the definition of a small, medium and large army in relation to this new morale system?
I am all for that.  The changes in v0.05 were a bit overly harsh to smaller parties, but I wanted to see what folks thought on their own without me expressing that as much.  The party unity factor would definitely favor a smaller, faction based force though.
 
Windyplains said:
Ephafn said:
Anyway, I played a little version 0.05 (starting from scratch), and I get the feeling I installed it incorrectly, as there are a bunch of text errors all over the place. For example, when using the new deploy mode, I get told to press 'G' to start the battle (this make me drop my weapon), while the correct button is 'F'. When using the F* buttons in battle, the extra options are labelled A,B,C,D,... instead of F5,F6,F7,F8,... Oh, and when I died in a tournament, the message about the camera mention dousing out fires or something...
Sounds like something is out of alignment for the strings.  If you started a new game, is it still doing it?
I tried starting a new game, and I got the same problem. I find it strange that I'm the only reporting such an error. Does anyone have any clue why my particular install differ that way?

Edit: Playing a little more and becoming a vassal, I had an even worse problem: the homesickness morale penalty doesn't get better when I am resting in my faction (Rhodok) how territory... I don't think my current -47 morale is going to be manageable...
 
I will release 0.06 tomorrow to resolve this and a few other bugs.  A toggle option will be put in to use the native morale system or mine with native being the default (for now).  That will give me more time for testing the effects and still allow for a way to reset things for folks.
 
Just my opinion, but I do not care for the new sounds that replaced soldiers' voice responses in battle.  Especially the cheering after a battle victory.  I Prefer the originals.

Other than that, some neat stuff and thanks for the mod to the mod.
 
12oz Jesus said:
Just my opinion, but I do not care for the new sounds that replaced soldiers' voice responses in battle.  Especially the cheering after a battle victory.  I Prefer the originals.
I have removed Brognar's voice acting pack, which is where all of the non-native sounds came from, for v0.06.  It was included originally for humor value while I was testing stuff out and I just keep forgetting to disable it.  It could also be disabled by simply removing the sound files in the "..\sound" folder too.

Other than that, some neat stuff and thanks for the mod to the mod.
Thanks.

Version 0.06 has been released to resolve the morale issues in v0.05.  I'll post a more complete change log when I have time to do so.  The new version is save compatible with v0.05.
 
Windyplains said:
12oz Jesus said:
Just my opinion, but I do not care for the new sounds that replaced soldiers' voice responses in battle.  Especially the cheering after a battle victory.  I Prefer the originals.
I have removed Brognar's voice acting pack, which is where all of the non-native sounds came from, for v0.06.  It was included originally for humor value while I was testing stuff out and I just keep forgetting to disable it.  It could also be disabled by simply removing the sound files in the "..\sound" folder too.

Other than that, some neat stuff and thanks for the mod to the mod.
Thanks.

Version 0.06 has been released to resolve the morale issues in v0.05.  I'll post a more complete change log when I have time to do so.  The new version is save compatible with v0.05.

A lot of the soldiers voice battle responses don't work for me. All of the insults do not seem to trigger and I'm not sure how to fix it. Are they disabled for anyone else?

 
Windyplains said:
Are you saying they are not working in v0.06?

Sorry. I should of been more specific. They don't seem to work in any version of Floris for me. Including v0.06
 
Windyplains said:
I have removed Brognar's voice acting pack, which is where all of the non-native sounds came from, for v0.06.  It was included originally for humor value while I was testing stuff out and I just keep forgetting to disable it.  It could also be disabled by simply removing the sound files in the "..\sound" folder too.

Brognar's sounds still active in v0.006.

I don't see any mention of "brognar" in sound folder, so I don't know which to delete to remove them.
 
I played the new version for a little while, starting from scratch again, and here are some of my impressions:

I don't know if I feel sad or happy about the removal of the custom sound files. I guess I found them "So Bad It's Good", especially "Don't axe me, brother" and "My shield is broken" (after I destroy a target in an arena). The fact that they were all carefully pronounced make them even sillier...

The lords constructions being announced is a new feature, correct? Or were they simply never building anything in version 0.05?

I was asked by the Rhodok King to join them, while I still wasn't a mercenary. Is this a new feature of the mod, as it's the first time I've seen it happened (OK, second actually, the first being with the previous version).

Once I reached a big enough size, I switch to the new morale system, which was fine. Although I'm wondering about the "Party Unity" negative modifier. My troops were all Rhodoks except for my companion, and I still had a -10 or so penalty. And at another point, I disbanded the three non-Rhodok units I had, which did improve the party unity by a few points. Oh, and when I started, I fielded half-Rhodoks, half-Sarranids, for a big round -30 penalty. So I didn't really understood this modifier. Is it only to penalize player who mix and match troops from different factions? Or is there something else to it? And if it to penalize mixed armies, I find a -30 penalty pretty harsh for only using two factions, although that may make Mercenaries more attractive if they don't cause a lowered unity.

And lastly, I really like the aggressive garrison feature (it made me reload a few times when I wasn't careful), but it still need work. Here are a few bug/misfeature I saw when playing:
- A patrol from my own castle got out, but never got back inside the castle. They are still waiting outside, doing nothing. "My AI is broken" would be the reaction of the voice pack...
- I go to siege an under-defended castle with 90 troops against their 40. But a patrol of 30 get out of it, then start running away! Being a good sport, I allow them to get back in by going away. But everytime I get back close to them, they leave the castle again... This happened a good 5 times or so, until I was tired of this and attacked the now severely under-defended castle... If I had to make a suggestion, patrols should go straight to their castle if it ever get besieged and be allowed to enter despite the siege. And they should leave any fight they currently in (I think I've seen this happen a few times, so hopefully the AI can be told to leave a battle).


Anyway, I really enjoy testingplaying this mod, even though some of its features are still experimental.
 
Ephafn said:
I don't know if I feel sad or happy about the removal of the custom sound files. I guess I found them "So Bad It's Good", especially "Don't axe me, brother" and "My shield is broken" (after I destroy a target in an arena). The fact that they were all carefully pronounced make them even sillier...
These could always be downloaded and added separately.  I generally thought they were pretty amusing.

The lords constructions being announced is a new feature, correct? Or were they simply never building anything in version 0.05?
They were building stuff back in v0.04 actually.  The announcing of what they're building is actually a bug (its a debug message that should have been disabled).

I was asked by the Rhodok King to join them, while I still wasn't a mercenary. Is this a new feature of the mod, as it's the first time I've seen it happened (OK, second actually, the first being with the previous version).
This is native design.  You just had a high enough renown to be worth inviting.

Once I reached a big enough size, I switch to the new morale system, which was fine. Although I'm wondering about the "Party Unity" negative modifier. My troops were all Rhodoks except for my companion, and I still had a -10 or so penalty. And at another point, I disbanded the three non-Rhodok units I had, which did improve the party unity by a few points. Oh, and when I started, I fielded half-Rhodoks, half-Sarranids, for a big round -30 penalty. So I didn't really understood this modifier. Is it only to penalize player who mix and match troops from different factions? Or is there something else to it? And if it to penalize mixed armies, I find a -30 penalty pretty harsh for only using two factions, although that may make Mercenaries more attractive if they don't cause a lowered unity.
Party Unity can be either positive or negative.  The larger your party is the more negative it will become.  It favors smaller "cohesive" parties over larger ones so it is constantly at odds with the party size morale effect.  It gains points based upon the combined leadership scores of you and all of your companions.  They're effectively keeping folks working as a cohesive unit on and off the battlefield.  As you add any type of troop it will lower.
[*] Your faction troops cause -1 for every 3 troops.  These solders are your countrymen and share your goal of unifying the land under your faction's banner.
[*] Non-faction troops cause -1 for every troop.  This will probably shift to -1 for 2.
[*] Mercenaries cause -2 for every troop.  These troops could care less about your goals for a unified kingdom.  They don't care to get along with the rest and only are present for the cash.  They're basically a disruptive force that may be a necessary evil for a commander to make use of.
[*] The entire morale effect is limited to -30 to +30.
I had a -24 unity effect in my party during testing in a party of 160 with most of them being of another faction so it didn't seem too penalizing.  Especially considering the straight negative morale of -1 for 1 troop from the native party size modifier was altered in exchange.  Putting this factor in returned some of that penalty, but mainly for troops that were not your kinsmen.  Something has to be a negative. :smile:

I do, however, have a very large revamp of the kingdom management options in the works for v0.07 that will expand upon this concept (along with many others).  So that you can choose what kind of "military diversity" your culture uses which will improve or worsen some of these effects.  It is not ready for screenshots to elaborate with yet.

And lastly, I really like the aggressive garrison feature (it made me reload a few times when I wasn't careful), but it still need work. Here are a few bug/misfeature I saw when playing:
- A patrol from my own castle got out, but never got back inside the castle. They are still waiting outside, doing nothing. "My AI is broken" would be the reaction of the voice pack...
- I go to siege an under-defended castle with 90 troops against their 40. But a patrol of 30 get out of it, then start running away! Being a good sport, I allow them to get back in by going away. But everytime I get back close to them, they leave the castle again... This happened a good 5 times or so, until I was tired of this and attacked the now severely under-defended castle... If I had to make a suggestion, patrols should go straight to their castle if it ever get besieged and be allowed to enter despite the siege. And they should leave any fight they currently in (I think I've seen this happen a few times, so hopefully the AI can be told to leave a battle).
I'll get back to this in a little bit.

Anyway, I really enjoy testingplaying this mod, even though some of its features are still experimental.
Thank you.  I definitely can use all of the feedback & suggestions I can get.  The more of them I get hit with the more likely I'll keep working on this vs. playing something else on a given day. :wink:
 
Windyplains said:
The lords constructions being announced is a new feature, correct? Or were they simply never building anything in version 0.05?
They were building stuff back in v0.04 actually.  The announcing of what they're building is actually a bug (its a debug message that should have been disabled).
By the way, is there a way to see what improvement have been built in non-owned fiefs?

Party Unity can be either positive or negative.  The larger your party is the more negative it will become.  It favors smaller "cohesive" parties over larger ones so it is constantly at odds with the party size morale effect.  It gains points based upon the combined leadership scores of you and all of your companions.  They're effectively keeping folks working as a cohesive unit on and off the battlefield.  As you add any type of troop it will lower.
[*] Your faction troops cause -1 for every 3 troops.  These solders are your countrymen and share your goal of unifying the land under your faction's banner.
[*] Non-faction troops cause -1 for every troop.  This will probably shift to -1 for 2.
[*] Mercenaries cause -2 for every troop.  These troops could care less about your goals for a unified kingdom.  They don't care to get along with the rest and only are present for the cash.  They're basically a disruptive force that may be a necessary evil for a commander to make use of.
[*] The entire morale effect is limited to -30 to +30.
I had a -24 unity effect in my party during testing in a party of 160 with most of them being of another faction so it didn't seem too penalizing.  Especially considering the straight negative morale of -1 for 1 troop from the native party size modifier was altered in exchange.  Putting this factor in returned some of that penalty, but mainly for troops that were not your kinsmen.  Something has to be a negative. :smile:
That makes sense, so my problem was likely that I tried staying at maximum party size and I didn't had any companion with leadership. But is it me, or charisma no longer in the picture at all? Is it to balance the fact that CHA now give +2 party size per point?
 
www.taleworlds.com - right click the warband downloader - copy adress/link - paste it - change 1153 to 1143
 
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