Historic Thread for Floris Workshop Development.
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Possible, yes. Sounds game balance breaking though. I could see giving a companion control of a patrolling force around your keep, but not letting them turn into a private army that tags along with you (thereby vastly extending your own).Hanakoganei said:
Yes, this is possible if the above were implemented.
I can see that, but would you handle these troops leveling up or how they recruit new ones? Or would you simply have them gain no troops and only gain what you specifically give them via troop exchange?
Most of the code to handle such a party already exists with the mercenary contract parties already in the Workshop. Those parties simply gain tier 1 recruits to top off their party to its ideal size weekly and monthly upgrade a % of each tier to the next. I would think with such a companion controlled army it'd probably just be via troop exchange though.
Most of the code to handle such a party already exists with the mercenary contract parties already in the Workshop. Those parties simply gain tier 1 recruits to top off their party to its ideal size weekly and monthly upgrade a % of each tier to the next. I would think with such a companion controlled army it'd probably just be via troop exchange though.
You know I like making presentations, but that is going a bit deeper down the rabbit hole than I would have planned.Duh said:
In terms of balance, I actually imagine it would be just about the same as being marshal of a faction, though these companion armies will always follow you instead of ignoring your summons if they think they "can do greater things". The size of their army could be dependent on their own Leadership skill, so they won't be leading 500-strong groups or anything. So it could be more worthwhile for those companions that already have some points in Leadership like Nizar, who isn't a noble and isn't a good idea to give a fief to unless you really want all the hate.
In addition, you're the one paying for the salary of all their troops as well. They don't have fiefs of their own, since they're not actually vassals, and don't have their own income other than what you pay them. Maybe even require the companion to bring and restock on food, since you're working on roles and stuff, or else face deserters.
I also like the idea of the number of total companion parties following you being based on your Leadership skill. Makes it more interesting for people like me who don't focus a lot of points in combat and focus in Int/Cha instead.
For the upgrading, if it's possible I'd like options for that. Either tell them to upgrade their soldiers by themselves like the Constable does, based on whether you want melee or ranged troops, or you can manually upgrade their troops for them via exchanging soldiers.
Also, for balance, even though they're in your employ, I think that they should act like other friendly lords' armies in that they won't follow your orders on the battlefield. They'll follow their own Formations AI ideas. If they do their own Formations AI though, it could conflict with your tactics (as other lords' armies tend to do), and therefore you have to think about how to complement their movements, their army composition and whether having them as a separate group is a good idea or if you should just re-absorb them into your group.
In addition, you're the one paying for the salary of all their troops as well. They don't have fiefs of their own, since they're not actually vassals, and don't have their own income other than what you pay them. Maybe even require the companion to bring and restock on food, since you're working on roles and stuff, or else face deserters.
I also like the idea of the number of total companion parties following you being based on your Leadership skill. Makes it more interesting for people like me who don't focus a lot of points in combat and focus in Int/Cha instead.
For the upgrading, if it's possible I'd like options for that. Either tell them to upgrade their soldiers by themselves like the Constable does, based on whether you want melee or ranged troops, or you can manually upgrade their troops for them via exchanging soldiers.
Also, for balance, even though they're in your employ, I think that they should act like other friendly lords' armies in that they won't follow your orders on the battlefield. They'll follow their own Formations AI ideas. If they do their own Formations AI though, it could conflict with your tactics (as other lords' armies tend to do), and therefore you have to think about how to complement their movements, their army composition and whether having them as a separate group is a good idea or if you should just re-absorb them into your group.
You should enjoy v0.3 then.Hanakoganei said:
The picture should speak for itself. Refined the center improvements to allow up to 3 improvements to be built in parallel. More could have been done, but I'd rather limit the script that checks every single village/town/castle for each improvement to only x3 native size versus something higher.
It should be useful even with native improvements.Bankoleva said:
But yes, I intend to add more center improvements and am planning on implementing Dunde's system that should make it easier, but that won't make it into v0.3 yet. I need to make sure his system is compatible with this setup.
What improvements would you like? And yes, this is an open invitation for folks to pile on the ideas here, but I will still balance them with the native ones as I feel necessary. I have been making some alterations to how improvements interact with the module system for easier addition...so here is some options for what improvements can do.Bankoleva said:
Some things to consider for balancing purpose:
- Improvements can now have a weekly upkeep cost.
- Improvements can now improve weekly income from that center.
- Completing an improvement could have a relation boost.
- Completing an improvement could have a permanent prosperity increase.
- Completing an improvement could have a one-time payout (then disappear).
- Having an improvement built could alter the inventory of a merchant.
- Completing an improvement could be used as a requirement to build a troop type.[/i]
Examples:
If you're going to add improvements please make a quote of them like I did above to keep things a little cleaner to read. Especially if you have multiple of them in a single post.
Some of will be inspirations and possible copy ideas from other mods
Not sure on this one. Can't remember the equationa dn calculations for how eeach trade caravan impacts the prosperity score. i actually what with this structure to tweak the impact up so it maintains the dependance on trade but ultimately the caravan has a larger impact on prosperity... If that makes sense at all.
Since all items are faction locked and the general prosperity issue keeps items even lower, i think this would help with finding the modified equipment that's practically impossible to find.
Will post more later.
Not sure on this one. Can't remember the equationa dn calculations for how eeach trade caravan impacts the prosperity score. i actually what with this structure to tweak the impact up so it maintains the dependance on trade but ultimately the caravan has a larger impact on prosperity... If that makes sense at all.
Since all items are faction locked and the general prosperity issue keeps items even lower, i think this would help with finding the modified equipment that's practically impossible to find.
Will post more later.
Feedback:
A few things I want folks to keep in mind.
1.) These improvements are for the Floris Workshop, not Floris at this time. I am agreeing to build and test them out and if the rest of the team likes them then we'll look into incorporating the system.
2.) Improvements can be damaged (by raiding) and destroyed (if damaged a few times without being repaired). Once damaged you'll need to repair them for a minor amount of their initial cost. This is partly why you are getting a few extra spots for building improvements at once.
3.) The AI will be able to add these improvements to their fiefs as well.
Accepted. I like it. (Edit: This is added and now working for v0.03)
I'll look into it. 2% weekly increase is a bit steep. I could see an 8% permanent increase though (these get reapplied after everything else).
I'll look into it. I'll have to look to see how high a chance the base % is before agreeing to a +50% increase on that. The improvement is good though.
Interesting.
Everything having high modifiers might not be good for folks feeding their armies. I'd prefer to avoid weekly increases to prosperity and focus more towards base increases.
A few things I want folks to keep in mind.
1.) These improvements are for the Floris Workshop, not Floris at this time. I am agreeing to build and test them out and if the rest of the team likes them then we'll look into incorporating the system.
2.) Improvements can be damaged (by raiding) and destroyed (if damaged a few times without being repaired). Once damaged you'll need to repair them for a minor amount of their initial cost. This is partly why you are getting a few extra spots for building improvements at once.
3.) The AI will be able to add these improvements to their fiefs as well.
I love the idea of damaged improvements as it means this is a contiual feature and not a build it and foget it feature. but in terms of villages that could get a bit.... well overly repetative. The AI building this stuff is definitely a must.
The weekly properity thing might be my lack of knowledge on how this is actually calculated and applied in game. Here's the problem i'm noticing... at least in my game. The general prosperity of Calradia is always on a downward spiral. Now understandably this is from constant warfare but i'm thinking its also from an imbalance of how long it takes to recover compared to extremely damaging war is. Villages are raided within days of of rocovering, taking cumulative prospreity hits and to some degree the same goes for towns. But the rate of recovery is really slow.
In my current game i was able to get through some strategic work and manipulation a really long peace... for myself. I'm not starting a war until i get Dhirim rich and my villages atleast average so my lords can build up their finances and armies. I'm seriously well into 2 months and my villages are still poor and Dhirim according to the reports is around 55 prosperity. This is with 2 months of pure peace, unrestrictive trade, 2 trade agreements and 40+ relation with town. It's taking way too long to get these places moving forward and like i said this is in ideal situation. In my game the average town Prosperity is 38.. Average village is 21. That's not good IMO.
My suggestions are looking in the direction of speeding up the prosperity recovery. I might be suggesting it the wrong way but that the goal i'm aiming for.
The weekly properity thing might be my lack of knowledge on how this is actually calculated and applied in game. Here's the problem i'm noticing... at least in my game. The general prosperity of Calradia is always on a downward spiral. Now understandably this is from constant warfare but i'm thinking its also from an imbalance of how long it takes to recover compared to extremely damaging war is. Villages are raided within days of of rocovering, taking cumulative prospreity hits and to some degree the same goes for towns. But the rate of recovery is really slow.
In my current game i was able to get through some strategic work and manipulation a really long peace... for myself. I'm not starting a war until i get Dhirim rich and my villages atleast average so my lords can build up their finances and armies. I'm seriously well into 2 months and my villages are still poor and Dhirim according to the reports is around 55 prosperity. This is with 2 months of pure peace, unrestrictive trade, 2 trade agreements and 40+ relation with town. It's taking way too long to get these places moving forward and like i said this is in ideal situation. In my game the average town Prosperity is 38.. Average village is 21. That's not good IMO.
My suggestions are looking in the direction of speeding up the prosperity recovery. I might be suggesting it the wrong way but that the goal i'm aiming for.
Well they won't get wrecked in 1-2 raids. More like 4-5 repeated raids without repair and I'll definitely let you know where things are getting broken. Think quests to from a village elder to help repair damaged structures (at any village) and requests from your village elder to repair nearly destroyed structures at your own fiefs.Bankoleva said:
As for prosperity...this gets recalculated on a regular basis and improvements aren't really taken into account there. Instead every 12 hours when are checked for completion there is a small check to see if you have X improvement and add Y prosperity. So in effect this prosperity bonus (the mill) is applied as a permanent base increase in prosperity regardless of any other state the village goes through. With improvements being indestructible this is a little overpowered if we start letting you add more bonuses to prosperity, but since you have to keep them maintained...I can live with that. It just means that as the place gets raided some buildings might get destroyed and others simply damaged. A wealth city that is raided should lose prosperity, but unless every building was razed to the ground it shouldn't be that hard to bounce back compared to starting a new city as well. Damaged improvements will probably only add half of their prosperity benefit until repaired to simulate this.
FafnirTheDragon
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I'm not sure, if these are suggestions you'd want as these imrovements are a bit more complicated.
I was thinking about adding possibility to comission upgrade for specific piece of equipment - giving an normal item, paying 10k and waiting some time for improved (masterwork, balanced, thick etc.) version of given item. This would work well as late game money sink, but at the same time would totally remove fun factor of getting rare loot after battles.
Another idea for late game cash sink:
I was thinking about adding possibility to comission upgrade for specific piece of equipment - giving an normal item, paying 10k and waiting some time for improved (masterwork, balanced, thick etc.) version of given item. This would work well as late game money sink, but at the same time would totally remove fun factor of getting rare loot after battles.
Another idea for late game cash sink:
Accepted. I like the idea, but will need to figure out how I want to go about it.
This I am not so sure of.
Pass. At least in the current state. It isn't that the idea is bad, but the farrier companion role will probably cover the first half of this. I'm am not going to create something with the second half as the new tournament rewards have a chance for these champion horses and I wouldn't want to make it easier than what that system requires.
Released v0.03.
Version 0.03 - 6/22/12
This will probably be the last update for a couple of weeks due to upcoming work schedule.
Version 0.03 - 6/22/12
- Save Game Compatibility: Maintained!
- Compatible Warband Version: 1.143 (Still awaiting WSE update for 1.153)
- WSE Minimum Required Version: 2.7.1 (included)
- Added new dialog options for noble prisoners held captive.
- You can attempt to persuade a captive king to make peace, but you must be a king or the marshal of a faction to do this. (persuasion based)
- You can attempt to intimidate a captive king into relinquishing his claim to the throne causing his kingdom to follow your banner. This is exceptionally difficult to do unless your empire easily out powers theirs. You must be a king to attempt this.
- You can attempt to ransom a noble for 60%. With a high enough persuasion you can increase this to 120%, but there is some penalties involved and it is a gamble on if it works. (persuasion based)
- Removed the thrusting attack from the two-handed Iron Mace. It looked silly.
- Disabling companion complaints also prevents a companion from leaving on their own.
- Skill Changes (testing these out):
- Power Draw now functions based upon the Agility attribute.
- Shield now functions based upon the Strength attribute.
- Persuasion now functions based upon the Charisma attribute.
- Party Size Changes:
- Players now receive same party size boosts the AI receive for fiefs, being marshal or being king.
- Charisma’s contribution to party size improved from 1 to 2/point.
- Leadership’s contribution to party size improved from 5 to 8/point.
- You now automatically gain relation boosts with allied heroes that fight in the same battle as you. Kings and marshals receive a small boost to this while enemies may ignore it.
- Fixed a dialog bug displaying incorrect text when granting a fief to a vassal.
- Center Improvements:
- Villages, castles & towns may now have three improvements building in parallel.
- Improvement construction time has been reduced by 33%.
- You can now cancel work on improvements mid-construction. All progress is lost.
- Improvements can now be damaged by raiding. Once damaged they must be repaired to get full benefit again. If allowed to deteriorate too far they will be destroyed.
- You will lose 2 relation with the town for each building destroyed.
- New Improvement: Local garrison (village) doubles the amount of time needed to raid a village and prevents bandits from infesting it. Costs a weekly upkeep.
- New Improvement: Planting Grain (village, castle) costs 3 bags of grain and takes 60 days to complete (unmodified by engineering), but returns 5,000 denars one time profit.
- New Improvement: Armoury (castle, town) allows replenishment of a siege defenders’ ranged ammunition during combat. Costs a weekly upkeep.
- New Improvement: Marketplace (any) improves prosperity by 3% and fief income by 5%.
- Companion Role Updates:
- The Gaoler will no longer attempt to sell 0 prisoners upon entering town when only hero prisoners exist in the party.
- The Gaoler will now transfer any prisoners available (including heroes) to a prison of a castle that you own upon entry.
This will probably be the last update for a couple of weeks due to upcoming work schedule.
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