ROCK General Information and Discussion : Current
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I really view this campaign as more of a test phase rather than a fully competitive event. If it had been billed as a test run, maybe there wouldn't be so many disgruntled teams.
As for last night I was disappointed. The main problem I have is that no one ask me if it was ok to reschedule the Telhrog
siege. It seems all lordships present should have a say, yet I was simply told the second siege is not happening tonight.
By the time I knew what was going on KoA had left and we were informed that the event was over for tonight. It may be
frustrating for a team to play overtime but its also frustrating to have to reschedule an event, especially when we have our guys there ready to fight.
The idea of having two siege events in one night was my idea. I do not think it was unreasonble, if the event had started even close to the time suggested there would have been no problem . I know you guys waited for LES to finish their match and I'm grateful for that, as we would have surely lost without their help. LES was late and KoA left early, both were agreed upon by the rock admins. The next few battles should be played out as scheduled reguardless of who is late or who leaves early. LES fought at Sargoth without RA and that's the way it should have been handled. I had several players drop last night because they had to leave, fortunately more GK Rebels joined to replace them, but even if we had no replacements we would have finished the match.
Map imbalances are no ones fault really, as the campaign was launched early. I understand they had to get this thing going
before testing was actually completed.
The ruleset maybe simple, or maybe I'm too simple to understand the simple rules. The main problem with the rules is that
they are not very intuitive. You use logic to make your move and a totally illogical but perfectly legitimate rule hinders your plan. I'm with Orion and Sal on the castle upgrade being lame. I do not fault the loyalist because it was within the confines of the rules, however, carpenter/ninja/engineers should probably be disallowed in future sieges.
I'm not upset with anyone in this campaign and I know **** happens and we are all new to this massive undertaking. I still
salute the organizers of this event because while far from perfect, it would never have happened at all without their hardwork and hours contributed. This event does emcompass the dedication to the community that I certainly admire.
As for last night I was disappointed. The main problem I have is that no one ask me if it was ok to reschedule the Telhrog
siege. It seems all lordships present should have a say, yet I was simply told the second siege is not happening tonight.
By the time I knew what was going on KoA had left and we were informed that the event was over for tonight. It may be
frustrating for a team to play overtime but its also frustrating to have to reschedule an event, especially when we have our guys there ready to fight.
The idea of having two siege events in one night was my idea. I do not think it was unreasonble, if the event had started even close to the time suggested there would have been no problem . I know you guys waited for LES to finish their match and I'm grateful for that, as we would have surely lost without their help. LES was late and KoA left early, both were agreed upon by the rock admins. The next few battles should be played out as scheduled reguardless of who is late or who leaves early. LES fought at Sargoth without RA and that's the way it should have been handled. I had several players drop last night because they had to leave, fortunately more GK Rebels joined to replace them, but even if we had no replacements we would have finished the match.
Map imbalances are no ones fault really, as the campaign was launched early. I understand they had to get this thing going
before testing was actually completed.
The ruleset maybe simple, or maybe I'm too simple to understand the simple rules. The main problem with the rules is that
they are not very intuitive. You use logic to make your move and a totally illogical but perfectly legitimate rule hinders your plan. I'm with Orion and Sal on the castle upgrade being lame. I do not fault the loyalist because it was within the confines of the rules, however, carpenter/ninja/engineers should probably be disallowed in future sieges.
I'm not upset with anyone in this campaign and I know **** happens and we are all new to this massive undertaking. I still
salute the organizers of this event because while far from perfect, it would never have happened at all without their hardwork and hours contributed. This event does emcompass the dedication to the community that I certainly admire.
Outlawed
Sergeant Knight
Well KissMyHax, can you explain why only Tihr was half-assed but Sargoth was a monstrous city?
You can't sit there and deny that the 'last' minute adjustments or whatever you guys did to the map would have been equally half-assed if Tihr was YOUR city.
That's what pisses me off to be honest. Its the only real thing that pissed me off. That your cities are excellently constructed as per the 'minimum' when ours don't even have ladders up to the walls, but barely slanted planks. I'm sorry, but that is just unacceptable. You should do as blak did and just apologize for that. I don't know why you're still defending it.
i.e. Your map was better designed than ours. And I can probably guarantee that when the ROCK mapper was making it for his team, he put more effort, time and thought into the whole process. THAT is my only problem in this predicament.
I don't mind towns being different, but I think all castles should have the same format or have like 2/3 known castles that you cycle between.
You can't sit there and deny that the 'last' minute adjustments or whatever you guys did to the map would have been equally half-assed if Tihr was YOUR city.
That's what pisses me off to be honest. Its the only real thing that pissed me off. That your cities are excellently constructed as per the 'minimum' when ours don't even have ladders up to the walls, but barely slanted planks. I'm sorry, but that is just unacceptable. You should do as blak did and just apologize for that. I don't know why you're still defending it.
i.e. Your map was better designed than ours. And I can probably guarantee that when the ROCK mapper was making it for his team, he put more effort, time and thought into the whole process. THAT is my only problem in this predicament.
I don't mind towns being different, but I think all castles should have the same format or have like 2/3 known castles that you cycle between.
Grad
Regular
Orion said:
No worries - none taken
Orion said:
There was a change in policy that was not accurately reflected in the changing of the listed rules. Initially, income generated during a turn wouldn't be available until the next turn. When Wappaw purchased their Tier 2 upgrade a while back, they were incorrectly using the income generated from the current turn, but Mad Dawg decided to go through with it to prevent confusion (guess he failed in that regard!). Since then, that has been the standard - I know this because I spotted the mistake myself and questioned him about it a few weeks ago.
It is a great effort on the part of the organizer's here. I would prefer this be considered a test phase and we make amendments to the rules for any future events. This campaign can work, we just need to iron out the details and not take this first trial too seriously. Let us finish the course under the current rules then we can discuss, modify and insure future discrepancies are avoided.
First of all, Sala, same as with Marnid, this is the last such message from you that I'm reading, let alone answering. Please, in future, refrain from provoking a confrontation or accusing the developers in all mortal sins -- otherwise your message will fall on deaf ears. Additionally, the sub-forum rules specifically prohibit the kinds of messages you and Marnid have posted: I can only see it as an act of generosity from the forum moderators that your messages haven't been removed.
Once again, drop the consumerist attitude.
I am saddened by the attitude towards the developer and administration team. Even after we have spent a great deal of effort on this community event, you still accuse us of cheating etc. Personally, I don't know what else can I do to prove you our goodwill. Heck, I don't think anything could work at all -- and even if something did, a bunch of ungrateful consumerist fat kids are not worth the effort.
Well, I wasn't there, so I don't know for sure. I think the earlier post by Blak has summed it up pretty well: **** happened and Blak has cleaned it up as much as he could in the time given. Personally, I'm sorry I wasn't there to help him with that. That said, I trust that he did the best he could.Outlawed said:
They were last minute -- if you don't believe that, we have nothing to talk about. Sargoth was, in a sense, a last-minute map too: I did the bulk of the work in the hour preceding the start of the engagement. I have just looked at Tihr and I can't say that Tihr is half-assed. There are a few major differences from Sargoth: the walls haven't been finished so that you can run around the whole city on the walls (this is a disadvantage for the attackers), and one could not enter the keep (this is a disadvantage for the defenders). I might offer that both shortcomings might compensate each other, but I already sense your attitude will prevent you from agreeing. Might I have done a better job at the map myself? Maybe. But I haven't worked on Tihr before, so I have no idea the initial state of the map. But if it's even remotely like that of Sargoth, Blak has done a lot: replaced the towers and the gatehouse, installed openable doors and a portculis, replaced the walls for the damaged ones and placed ramps to them. All and all, the map is 100% within our mapping guidelines, which is what the "minimal mapping" is aimed to achieve. You have fumed about the ramps before -- but, honestly, do the make so much difference compared to siege ladders? And yes, I *can* sit here and tell you that the mappers try to do an equally good job at all the castles and cities, given the time constraints -- because I *know* for a fact that that's really the case.Outlawed said:
Why, thank youOutlawed said:
Both yours and our cities meet the minimal requirements. Some of the maps might be more polished (Curaw, Ismirala Castle and Village, Tehlrog Castle) just because we had more time to work on them. But, all of the maps I've seen meet the requirements set beforehand (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,187724.msg4899054.html#msg4899054)Outlawed said:
I have nothing to apologize for, mister. And I don't think Blak has too. We have been working hard for you guys. You haven't even lifted a finger to make your own maps. In fact, only 2 mappers outside of the dev team have contacted us with an interest in mapping, both were on the Loyalist side, and we are yet to see their mapsOutlawed said:
Once again, drop the consumerist attitude.Okay, I have already stated that this is not true. However, since you seem to believe it so fervently, why haven't you found your own mapper to put his love, effort time and thought in your city or castle? Huh?Outlawed said:
Duly noted.Outlawed said:
I am saddened by the attitude towards the developer and administration team. Even after we have spent a great deal of effort on this community event, you still accuse us of cheating etc. Personally, I don't know what else can I do to prove you our goodwill. Heck, I don't think anything could work at all -- and even if something did, a bunch of ungrateful consumerist fat kids are not worth the effort.
Outlawed
Sergeant Knight
I'm not saying they were not last minute. I'm saying the fact that they indeed were last minute ONLY would have happened if the cities belonged to the team you guys were not on. I can guarantee you that the mapper would have made the map in advance and made it defensible if it belonged to the Balion lordship as opposed to Ra or any other Rebel lordship.
I don't know why you're trying to make it sound like I'm attacking you guys. I'm just upset.
I've stated before in posts that I emphasize with you guys...
Yet you're sitting there accusing me of being lazy.
The reason we don't have our own mapper is because we don't have a mapper lol.
None of us really know how to make maps and we didn't sign up for a campaign expecting to have to make our own maps. The scening part was introduced later in the rule section, after registration and trust me, I know the rules section. I was asking questions, making suggestions and trying to clear things up from the moment I found the threads. Yeah I appreciate you guys doing it, but no one forced you to.
When you present something to the community you cannot expect people not to point out your weaknesses. Even more you cannot take a position of 'don't complain, do it yourself'. When you offer someone a service and then ask them to take it or leave it, you're not really presenting much; when you do that you sort of come out as scumbag Steve. I personally haven't attacked anyone but the mapper of Tihr, who explained themselves and apologized. That's all I wanted. (Also, Tihr shouldn't be modified during this campaign run imo)
You didn't see the map. You don't understand where I am coming from...
Tihr actually broke the specifications of scening. We are supposed to have two ladder entry points, a back door and a main gate correct? We didn't have ladders. We had those planks that people could ride their horses up on.. The enemy team could just ride up our god damn walls.. Talk to a neutral who was spectating the match. Hell even Blak himself said it; that map was total bs. I don't know why you're taking it as an insult when its blatantly true. I'm just trying to point out a problem with this system of yours and you're completely bypassing the main core of my post.
Why are our maps left to the last minute, when yours are given so much thought and are quite defensible?
Your 'job' as an organizer is to create fair and balanced maps for everyone, THEN look to make your own cities and forts a bit more extravagant.
Not make our cities ****holes while yours are citadels.
Instead of viewing that question from a negative perspective, you can think of it as a time management issue on the ROCK team's part. People make mistakes, and accordingly learn from them. I just wanted the mapper to step up, apologize and try to avoid it in the future. Why? Because it means easier future campaigns.
I don't know why you're trying to make it sound like I'm attacking you guys. I'm just upset.
I've stated before in posts that I emphasize with you guys...
Yet you're sitting there accusing me of being lazy.
The reason we don't have our own mapper is because we don't have a mapper lol.
None of us really know how to make maps and we didn't sign up for a campaign expecting to have to make our own maps. The scening part was introduced later in the rule section, after registration and trust me, I know the rules section. I was asking questions, making suggestions and trying to clear things up from the moment I found the threads. Yeah I appreciate you guys doing it, but no one forced you to.
When you present something to the community you cannot expect people not to point out your weaknesses. Even more you cannot take a position of 'don't complain, do it yourself'. When you offer someone a service and then ask them to take it or leave it, you're not really presenting much; when you do that you sort of come out as scumbag Steve. I personally haven't attacked anyone but the mapper of Tihr, who explained themselves and apologized. That's all I wanted. (Also, Tihr shouldn't be modified during this campaign run imo)
You didn't see the map. You don't understand where I am coming from...
Tihr actually broke the specifications of scening. We are supposed to have two ladder entry points, a back door and a main gate correct? We didn't have ladders. We had those planks that people could ride their horses up on.. The enemy team could just ride up our god damn walls.. Talk to a neutral who was spectating the match. Hell even Blak himself said it; that map was total bs. I don't know why you're taking it as an insult when its blatantly true. I'm just trying to point out a problem with this system of yours and you're completely bypassing the main core of my post.
Why are our maps left to the last minute, when yours are given so much thought and are quite defensible?
Your 'job' as an organizer is to create fair and balanced maps for everyone, THEN look to make your own cities and forts a bit more extravagant.
Not make our cities ****holes while yours are citadels.
Instead of viewing that question from a negative perspective, you can think of it as a time management issue on the ROCK team's part. People make mistakes, and accordingly learn from them. I just wanted the mapper to step up, apologize and try to avoid it in the future. Why? Because it means easier future campaigns.
KissMyAxe said:
I know organizing a tournament takes considerable time and effort, but using that as an excuse and shield against criticism is nothing but a cheap cop-out. If you can't handle the pressure yourself, ask for help. There are members in this community that are willing to take an active role. Sala's got it right. You can't present yourself to the community and expect them not to point out your short-comings. If I truly was an ingrate ******* bastard, I would have just said "this **** sucks lol" and ****ed off to my happy place. I want you guys to improve your concept, and I'm telling you what I think is wrong with it. Part of that is the administration itself.
Why do you think I have administrators for NASTe? I can't attend every match, and if I tried to reign supreme on all disputes (some of which could potentially involve my team) I would be in the same situation I currently see the ROCK administrators in. You refuse to acknowledge my criticism because I was frustrated when I wrote it and it shows. That does not invalidate it. You then attempt to shift blame onto me (again) with your "consumerist" rant and accusations that I tried to do nothing about the situation when it mattered. The first is your response to unwanted criticism (so I won't dwell on it, because I know it's not what an organizer wants) but the second is entirely false. Mad Dawg refused to discuss the issues with me before the Curin siege. I tried, and the administrator wouldn't even give me the time of day. What am I supposed to do then? Tell me, I'm curious. These forums are my best point of access to you guys, and I can't very well post while I'm fighting a lopsided siege. I made the mistake of trying to contact Mad Dawg directly about some issues I had noticed before Sunday night, but I only saw him during the Nations Cup practice and we both had other responsibilities during that.
So, I think I have succeeded in not insulting you with this post. Show me the courtesy I have shown you regarding reading opposing viewpoints.
@John: I don't get home Mondays until the time you guys left last night (10 CST). It's literally the worst day of the week.
Lot's of text walls. I'm not even going to entertain them.
Ok, big bold letters:
MATCH WAS RESCHEDULED DUE TO IT BEING 11:00PM ON A SUNDAY NIGHT AND NO OTHER REASON. I AM NOT GOING TO FORCE SOMEONE EXPECTING A 9:30PM START TIME AS OUTLINED IN THE SCHEDULING THREAD TO FIGHT AT 11:00PM EASTERN.
If you thing it's because of any other reason you are completely wrong.
Where any lordship chooses to go from here is their prerogative. Just let me know in writing if you don't intend to continue. (which would be pretty selfish to your allies but whatever)
-Mad
Ok, big bold letters:
MATCH WAS RESCHEDULED DUE TO IT BEING 11:00PM ON A SUNDAY NIGHT AND NO OTHER REASON. I AM NOT GOING TO FORCE SOMEONE EXPECTING A 9:30PM START TIME AS OUTLINED IN THE SCHEDULING THREAD TO FIGHT AT 11:00PM EASTERN.
If you thing it's because of any other reason you are completely wrong.
Where any lordship chooses to go from here is their prerogative. Just let me know in writing if you don't intend to continue. (which would be pretty selfish to your allies but whatever)
-Mad
Mad Dawg said:
Gf ROCK administration.
Orion said:
Oh, I might have Blak tell you how I made Sargoth in the last hour or so before the siege.Outlawed said:
Of course. But one thing is to point shortcomings and offer reasonable suggestions and, maybe, help -- and another is *****. However, you seemed to have toned down your posts, and I'm responding to you.Outlawed said:
I've seen the map before writing the post. I even did a quick comparison of Tihr and Sargoth there.Outlawed said:
Screen shots? There were AI barriers at the bases of the planks, so I don't think horses should have been able to ride up.Outlawed said:
I'm only taking as an insult the fact that you seemed to be alleging that the mappers intentionally made Balion castles and cities strong while the others are weak.Outlawed said:
Okay, point taken. Even though, the developers already understood that making maps on short notice isn't the best way to go.Outlawed said:
Outlawed said:
In short: technical difficulties.blak said:
I still don't think Tihr was a ****hole.Outlawed said:
First of all, Blak has apologized -- even though it wasn't his fault. Heck, it wasn't anyone's fault -- something happened with Mad Dawg's files and he lost his work on Tihr. I will do my best to avoid things like this in the rest of ROCK. That said, if you guys want to do anything like that in future -- go on, but without me.Outlawed said:
Also, you seem to forgetting that in one turn, the dev team has produced 3 maps: Tihr, Hrus and Chalbek. If you only had issue with Tihr, I think it's still a pretty big success.
It's now what you said, it's how you said it.Orion said:
Where were they at the start of ROCK?Orion said:
Oh, I'm not expecting that. What I'm expecting is people communicating with reason and a level head.Orion said:
Heated disputes usually don't solve problems. As long as you and Sala take emotions out and approach the issues with reason and consideration, I'm personally open for discussion.Orion said:
PM another admin. If you don't like Mad Dawg or me, there's Suriell and Peasant.Orion said:
You're saying my entire post is without reason because of my vocabulary? Really? I'll just choose to ignore all opposing arguments from now on if they are presented with any spelling or grammatical errors, then. How about that? I have just invalidated your entire last post. There's at least one grammatical error in it.
Look! I can pick some arbitrary justification for ignoring people I don't like too! Now nothing will ever be accomplished!
I'll quote this every time it's valid.
KissMyAxe said:
Look! I can pick some arbitrary justification for ignoring people I don't like too! Now nothing will ever be accomplished!
Orion said:
I'll quote this every time it's valid.
C-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-combo breaker!!!
Ok, had a great meeting with most (excluding Ra and sorry you missed it because I didn't see you on steam and it was impromptu however feel free to join Vent and discuss anything I miss here) of the Rebel lordship leaders last night. Very productive, very informative, very civil and yes that even means Marnid.
Basically a long list of misunderstandings and some really tough battles for the Rebels lead to walls of text and strong feelings. After everything was discussed and many questions had been answered everyone basically found common ground is and looking forward to continuing in the ROCK campaign.
Here is just a quick list of some of the main concerns:
1. It is 100% guaranteed that ROCK_Admin_Mad_Dawg and Balion_Lordship_Mad_Dawg are completely seperate with their intentions. The point was stressed many times and also a valid point was produced that noone would be willing to do this amount of work without participating themselves. I feel it is now completely understood that all ruleset decisions have been and are made by an impartial party working within the ruleset and original intent with no specific benefit that is looked to be gained by that party. I'm sorry if you can't believe that, but it a simple truth.
2. There are a number of "additional and interpretating" clarifications that have been spread through many formats. Either via multiple threads, or PM's, or discussion. A better job by me personally should have been done to reformat and update the rules as additional clarifications came out. For this I apologize and am working to better this.
3. The match from Sunday night was rescheduled due to the 11:00pm EST start time and no other reason. KoA had expected and agreed to a 9:30pm EST start time approximately. No blame is placed on why the engagement started so late. The match was delayed specifically per the wishes on KoA's request to reschedule due to time. (Recieved from John via Steam after I queried in Vent.)
4. No penalty was given to KoA because the engagement was fought within the allotted turn. (Bravo to all the lordships that stepped up and made that happen.)
5. The pallisade at Curin Castle, while seemingly illogical due to a besieging army, was within the ruleset and is an option to all lordships to perform. It was also agreed that I did not months ago write some type of loophole in the rules because I knew we would need it. (That's just absurd) It was agreed that any future campaigns should specifically make a clarification on this matter. Lastly, if you feel the besieging army would have stopped such construction, I offered we did it after one of their late night parties and everyone was passed out drunk. (That's a joke)
6. Attacking a castle or other defensive settlement is not and should not be balanced. (Seems pretty simple) The freedom with the format for battles in ROCK allows attackers honestly more options instead of making poor choices to try and reach some flag within a castle with the standard Siege mode. That said, sieging is very tough battles and honestly feel they should be.
7. It is every lordship's responsibility to arrange or perform the scening work they want done to a specific settlement they recieved or conquer. The Tutorial Thread was formatted and published before the official start of ROCK and has always been present. The ROCK administration is only responsible for Minimum Scening Guidelines. All scening for "Balion's" settlements has been done by the Balion participants, not ROCK administration. That being said, a very nice castle was produced for Ra at Hrus Castle by the administration. That cannot be denied. A very nice city of Tihr was lost by me personally after overwriting my work with a module update when I thought I had multiple backup's. The Tihr they recieved was the best that could be done with the allowed time, fully met the obligation set forth in the Minimum Scening rules, and frankly was far more advantageous than say a field battle. In addition, no instructions were given with Ra's preferences to the construction of Tihr even when it was specifically offered. http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,209850.msg5130985.html#msg5130985 (Please understand this is explanation, not accusation.)
8. The equipment delay vs equipment instantly issue. A miscommunication between ROCK administration lead to Wappaw not being corrected about the "income" being delayed 1 turn. (making the upgrades be delayed 1 turn for the money to catch up, or in other words that's why it would be delayed 1 turn) Basically all lordships started with 0 gold as laid out in the rules. The announced income for a lordship was not to be processed until the end of each turn meaning for all of Turn 1 everyone was at 0 gold. At turn 2 Wappaw "purchased" Tier 2 equipment. The matter was seen by the administration, however due to said miscommunication, was never made known to Wappaw. At the end of Turn 3 and beginning of Turn 4 a decision was made by myself with Kiss and Harald present that due to no immediate reprecussions during the Turn 2 I would allow Wappaw's rule interpretation to take precedent over my original intent to prevent the confusion of trying to fix something a week and a half after the fact. This decision actually helped the Rebels during Turn 4 where Ra fought with Tier 2 equipment during the Siege of Tihr when they had just purchased it during Turn 4. So honestly the ruling no only did not hurt or disadvantage the Rebels, but helped Ra make a great stand against 2 large clans. In addition, the decision was made when it would not benefit or hinder anyone and was made simple for the purpose of trying to eliminate confusion. (which has obviously failed, thanks for pointing that out) (Also to Kiss and Harald you were right, 'nough said.)
9. ROCK is supposed to be fun. I realize everyone wants to win but the massive time, effort, and energy that has been placed into ROCK by many, many people is for the benefit of the whole NA community at a cost of trying to understand some rules and showing up. We're not recieving any awards for this so this is gift to you. This does not disqualify any short comings of ROCK, it just hopefully helps to encourage everyone to work together the best we can understanding the open sacrifice made be the people who put together and admin ROCK.
10. ROCK is continuing as intended and as scheduled for the duration of the campaign. In my eyes it is still anyone's game. The Loyalists have a long road ahead of them sieging and capturing some pretty tough settlements.
Good luck to everyone and thanks for helping to make this a working reality as intended.
-Mad
Ok, had a great meeting with most (excluding Ra and sorry you missed it because I didn't see you on steam and it was impromptu however feel free to join Vent and discuss anything I miss here) of the Rebel lordship leaders last night. Very productive, very informative, very civil and yes that even means Marnid.
Basically a long list of misunderstandings and some really tough battles for the Rebels lead to walls of text and strong feelings. After everything was discussed and many questions had been answered everyone basically found common ground is and looking forward to continuing in the ROCK campaign.
Here is just a quick list of some of the main concerns:
1. It is 100% guaranteed that ROCK_Admin_Mad_Dawg and Balion_Lordship_Mad_Dawg are completely seperate with their intentions. The point was stressed many times and also a valid point was produced that noone would be willing to do this amount of work without participating themselves. I feel it is now completely understood that all ruleset decisions have been and are made by an impartial party working within the ruleset and original intent with no specific benefit that is looked to be gained by that party. I'm sorry if you can't believe that, but it a simple truth.
2. There are a number of "additional and interpretating" clarifications that have been spread through many formats. Either via multiple threads, or PM's, or discussion. A better job by me personally should have been done to reformat and update the rules as additional clarifications came out. For this I apologize and am working to better this.
3. The match from Sunday night was rescheduled due to the 11:00pm EST start time and no other reason. KoA had expected and agreed to a 9:30pm EST start time approximately. No blame is placed on why the engagement started so late. The match was delayed specifically per the wishes on KoA's request to reschedule due to time. (Recieved from John via Steam after I queried in Vent.)
4. No penalty was given to KoA because the engagement was fought within the allotted turn. (Bravo to all the lordships that stepped up and made that happen.)
5. The pallisade at Curin Castle, while seemingly illogical due to a besieging army, was within the ruleset and is an option to all lordships to perform. It was also agreed that I did not months ago write some type of loophole in the rules because I knew we would need it. (That's just absurd) It was agreed that any future campaigns should specifically make a clarification on this matter. Lastly, if you feel the besieging army would have stopped such construction, I offered we did it after one of their late night parties and everyone was passed out drunk. (That's a joke)
6. Attacking a castle or other defensive settlement is not and should not be balanced. (Seems pretty simple) The freedom with the format for battles in ROCK allows attackers honestly more options instead of making poor choices to try and reach some flag within a castle with the standard Siege mode. That said, sieging is very tough battles and honestly feel they should be.
7. It is every lordship's responsibility to arrange or perform the scening work they want done to a specific settlement they recieved or conquer. The Tutorial Thread was formatted and published before the official start of ROCK and has always been present. The ROCK administration is only responsible for Minimum Scening Guidelines. All scening for "Balion's" settlements has been done by the Balion participants, not ROCK administration. That being said, a very nice castle was produced for Ra at Hrus Castle by the administration. That cannot be denied. A very nice city of Tihr was lost by me personally after overwriting my work with a module update when I thought I had multiple backup's. The Tihr they recieved was the best that could be done with the allowed time, fully met the obligation set forth in the Minimum Scening rules, and frankly was far more advantageous than say a field battle. In addition, no instructions were given with Ra's preferences to the construction of Tihr even when it was specifically offered. http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,209850.msg5130985.html#msg5130985 (Please understand this is explanation, not accusation.)
8. The equipment delay vs equipment instantly issue. A miscommunication between ROCK administration lead to Wappaw not being corrected about the "income" being delayed 1 turn. (making the upgrades be delayed 1 turn for the money to catch up, or in other words that's why it would be delayed 1 turn) Basically all lordships started with 0 gold as laid out in the rules. The announced income for a lordship was not to be processed until the end of each turn meaning for all of Turn 1 everyone was at 0 gold. At turn 2 Wappaw "purchased" Tier 2 equipment. The matter was seen by the administration, however due to said miscommunication, was never made known to Wappaw. At the end of Turn 3 and beginning of Turn 4 a decision was made by myself with Kiss and Harald present that due to no immediate reprecussions during the Turn 2 I would allow Wappaw's rule interpretation to take precedent over my original intent to prevent the confusion of trying to fix something a week and a half after the fact. This decision actually helped the Rebels during Turn 4 where Ra fought with Tier 2 equipment during the Siege of Tihr when they had just purchased it during Turn 4. So honestly the ruling no only did not hurt or disadvantage the Rebels, but helped Ra make a great stand against 2 large clans. In addition, the decision was made when it would not benefit or hinder anyone and was made simple for the purpose of trying to eliminate confusion. (which has obviously failed, thanks for pointing that out) (Also to Kiss and Harald you were right, 'nough said.)
9. ROCK is supposed to be fun. I realize everyone wants to win but the massive time, effort, and energy that has been placed into ROCK by many, many people is for the benefit of the whole NA community at a cost of trying to understand some rules and showing up. We're not recieving any awards for this so this is gift to you. This does not disqualify any short comings of ROCK, it just hopefully helps to encourage everyone to work together the best we can understanding the open sacrifice made be the people who put together and admin ROCK.
10. ROCK is continuing as intended and as scheduled for the duration of the campaign. In my eyes it is still anyone's game. The Loyalists have a long road ahead of them sieging and capturing some pretty tough settlements.
Good luck to everyone and thanks for helping to make this a working reality as intended.
-Mad
Wall of text, will not read.
(Dirty secret: actually read the whole thing)
I went over a few of the rules we've had issues with and submitted slight changes of wording to Mad Dawg that fall within his current interpretation of the rules, I think. While keeping them short and simple, I tried to clarify the things we've left open to interpretation so far.
(Dirty secret: actually read the whole thing)
I went over a few of the rules we've had issues with and submitted slight changes of wording to Mad Dawg that fall within his current interpretation of the rules, I think. While keeping them short and simple, I tried to clarify the things we've left open to interpretation so far.
Outlawed
Sergeant Knight
Since Ra is out, and is no more.
All I will say is that Tihr was garbage and shouldn't be modified anymore. The holders of Tihr now must fight with it in the same way, without changing anything.
Also Mad_dawg. A Ladder =/= slanted plank.
Hence the 2 ladder entrances 'requirement' was broken for Tihr.
All I will say is that Tihr was garbage and shouldn't be modified anymore. The holders of Tihr now must fight with it in the same way, without changing anything.
Also Mad_dawg. A Ladder =/= slanted plank.
Hence the 2 ladder entrances 'requirement' was broken for Tihr.
So you guys know, the looting incomes from last turn are as follows:
LES = 717
GKR = 717
TMW = 450
Wappaw = 450
The formula is simple and we would like for each lordship to post their looting income as it is laided out in the template.
1. Take the total number of kills
2. Divide by 100.
3. Drop the remainder.
4. Multiply by 2.
5. Divide by the total number of lordships invovled.
Encourage all lordships to total and post their looting income.
LES = 717
GKR = 717
TMW = 450
Wappaw = 450
The formula is simple and we would like for each lordship to post their looting income as it is laided out in the template.
1. Take the total number of kills
2. Divide by 100.
3. Drop the remainder.
4. Multiply by 2.
5. Divide by the total number of lordships invovled.
Encourage all lordships to total and post their looting income.
Hello ROCKers, a few updates.
[list type=decimal]
[*]The Rebel lordship League of Extraordinary Swordsmen has been dissolved upon request of their leaders.
[*]GK Rebels is taking over the LES fiefs (Sargoth, Curin Castle, Fenada, Vayejeg) and armies (army 1 garrisoned in Curin castle (F-13) with 140 troops, upgrade level 2)
[*]Curin Castle siege is going to be played in Turn 11 (March 27th-April 2nd), however it is going to be counted in Turn 10. The armies participating in the Siege are going to have an extended deadline for movement orders to accommodate for the late engagement resolution. Lordships involved in the siege, please, kindly start scheduling it.
[*]We apologize for the delay in resolving the situation that kept us stalling. We are declaring last week a break: Turn 11 is resuming on Tuesday, but you can post your orders any time. We are back on track with the regular schedule, all orders are due Wednesday, March 28th.
[*]Historiograph and the Turn 11 Engagement summary were updated accordingly
[/list]
PM me know if you have any questions.
[list type=decimal]
[*]The Rebel lordship League of Extraordinary Swordsmen has been dissolved upon request of their leaders.
[*]GK Rebels is taking over the LES fiefs (Sargoth, Curin Castle, Fenada, Vayejeg) and armies (army 1 garrisoned in Curin castle (F-13) with 140 troops, upgrade level 2)
[*]Curin Castle siege is going to be played in Turn 11 (March 27th-April 2nd), however it is going to be counted in Turn 10. The armies participating in the Siege are going to have an extended deadline for movement orders to accommodate for the late engagement resolution. Lordships involved in the siege, please, kindly start scheduling it.
[*]We apologize for the delay in resolving the situation that kept us stalling. We are declaring last week a break: Turn 11 is resuming on Tuesday, but you can post your orders any time. We are back on track with the regular schedule, all orders are due Wednesday, March 28th.
[*]Historiograph and the Turn 11 Engagement summary were updated accordingly
[/list]
PM me know if you have any questions.
Ok guys,
Things with have finally been straightened out with LES and that match has been booked. Basically the past turn (Turn 11) has been on hold pending a resolution to the situation.
We are moving ahead with Turn 11 now with a deadline for turn posts tomorrow at 11:50pm. (Respective to timezone of posting member)
Let's focus these following weeks so we can:
1. Enjoy the remainder of ROCK
2. Accomplish the goal of completing the campaign.
-Mad
Things with have finally been straightened out with LES and that match has been booked. Basically the past turn (Turn 11) has been on hold pending a resolution to the situation.
We are moving ahead with Turn 11 now with a deadline for turn posts tomorrow at 11:50pm. (Respective to timezone of posting member)
Let's focus these following weeks so we can:
1. Enjoy the remainder of ROCK
2. Accomplish the goal of completing the campaign.
-Mad
