Plate armor cartwheels.

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GreySaber

Veteran
For those of you who keep claiming that plate OUGHT to slow you down as much as it does, I offer you this video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm11yAXeegg

And this photo.

http://www.mediumaevum.com/josh/Picture%20008.jpg
 
Nice. Though for objectivity's sake I have to say it shows that plate armor doesn't restrict movement, but it doesn't actually show the guy running in it.
 
Sordid Sinister said:
Nice. Though for objectivity's sake I have to say it shows that plate armor doesn't restrict movement, but it doesn't actually show the guy running in it.

If you can do cartwheels, you can move at more then a slugs pace up a set of stairs.
 
GreySaber said:
If you can do cartwheels, you can move at more then a slugs pace up a set of stairs.

Run up stairs for a few minutes. Then imagine doing it with 20kg of steel on you. I think doing a cartwheel with additional weight is easier than doing something that requires more endurance than strength.

I'd like to see anyone doing the same tricks with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Maximilienne-p1000557.jpg
Because, you know, the acrobat's armor doesn't seem to limit movement as much as a full plate armour should. As far as I know, "proper" pauldrons would prevent doing cartwheels.
 
I'd like to point out that he was doing the cartwheels when he was still missing sections covering his hips.

I'd also like to point out that sporadic clips of him moving around don't really demonstrate anything other than for brief moments he could still move around.

Show me a video of a guy in plate that is fighting and running for more than a minute or so, then you might have proven something.

Also note that I'm not one of the ones that think plate armor made the soldier incapable of walking ... just that your video didn't exactly make a very good example of your point.

Narcissus
 
Perhaps you guys should go and watch a re-enactment of a large battle.  I'd suggest going to watch Tewkesbury if you live in the UK.  The battle lasts around an hour and a lot of the participants are in full plate.  It's hot, uncomfortable, and heavy, but you can move in it, and you can run in it.

You had to have good mobility in full plate.  If you didn't you would be run down, knocked over, and killed.

 
Narcissus has it.  It's not going to slow you down as if you were carrying lead weights on your back, but try running and fighting for a few hours, and I garuntee any plate armor will wear you out pretty quickly.

Furthermore, the type of armor he was wearing is a very late-era style steel design (1400 AD +).  The original full-plate (the kind you often see standing up in museums and what not), was so heavy that once a knight was knocked down, he couldn't stand up on his own.  They even had specially designed cranes to hoist knights onto their horses.

THAT is plate armor, yo. 
 
The picture is from the Brainiac : History Abuse part called "Men in Steel" or "Knight Fever". The suit is plate armour weighing over 20kg.

A well made suit of armour could weigh only 20kg, less than a modern infantrymen's gear and protection, also the weight is very well distributed. The weight was so well spread over the body that a fit man could run, or jump into his saddle.
 
Plebian said:
The original full-plate (the kind you often see standing up in museums and what not), was so heavy that once a knight was knocked down, he couldn't stand up on his own.  They even had specially designed cranes to hoist knights onto their horses.
That's exactly what was NOT the case. No armour (armour meant for actual use, anyway) anywhere in the world has ever been that heavy at any point in history. Such armour would be absolutely useless in any sort of combat, because you wouldn't be able to do anything in it. Mobility is paramount in a fight. The plate you are referring to didn't pop up until Hollywood.
 
"The notion it was necessary to lift a fully armed knight onto his horse with the help of pulleys is a myth originating in Mark Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, and only rarely occurred in the 19th century. Even knights in enormously heavy jousting armour were not winched onto their horses. This type of "sporting" armour was meant only for ceremonial lancing matches and the design had to be extremely thick to prevent severe accidents, such as the one causing the death of King Henry II of France."

Wikipedia is your friend.

 
Plebian said:
Narcissus has it.  It's not going to slow you down as if you were carrying lead weights on your back, but try running and fighting for a few hours, and I garuntee any plate armor will wear you out pretty quickly.

Furthermore, the type of armor he was wearing is a very late-era style steel design (1400 AD +).  The original full-plate (the kind you often see standing up in museums and what not), was so heavy that once a knight was knocked down, he couldn't stand up on his own.  They even had specially designed cranes to hoist knights onto their horses.

THAT is plate armor, yo.

I think you missed part of my post ...

Narcissus said:
Also note that I'm not one of the ones that think plate armor made the soldier incapable of walking ... just that your video didn't exactly make a very good example of your point.

:grin:  Narcissus  :grin:
 
Plebian said:
Narcissus has it.  It's not going to slow you down as if you were carrying lead weights on your back, but try running and fighting for a few hours, and I garuntee any plate armor will wear you out pretty quickly.

I am not running around in plate armor. You are probably not running around in plate armor. The question is whether people whose lives and jobs depended on wearing armor for extended periods were able to move while wearing it.

I think they were able to do it. Look at soldiers or firemen. These people are in good shape.
How many people you know could actually use a 150lb longbow? That doesn't make it unrealistic to put it in the game.
 
Armor is VERY VERY well distributed, unlike chain mail. Chain mail vs armor is like wearing a heavy backpack(the weight is on your shoulders) and wearing an equal amount of weights worth of small packs.

don't talk about how armor was so heavy it was impossible to get on a horse. That is just Bullsh*t. Ive tried on armor before (half plate) but i was only 13. It was about what the guy in the video was wearing when he did cartwheels. I can tell you that , as a mediocre healthy kid who was only 5'3" at the time that it was not heavy and i could easily run in it. If you were full grown and trained with it your whole life, you can easily march for long periods of time and definitely be able to sprint for a bit.
 
yep. Someone mentioned firemen.  I train with a volounteer emergency response crew, and when we are fully dressed in fire gear, breathing apparatus and harnesses, on top of heavy boots and helmets, we carry about 15-20 kilos each.  I can quite easily skull-drag a 100Kg man even when weighed down with all this extra gear.  I can run in 40 degree heat, wearing all of this, for five minutes.
If it was steel plate, or chain-link, it would still be only the same 15 to 20 kilos.  The only difference might be in ease of movement.  Plate is by definition NOT flexible, so unless it is made with plenty clever joints, movement will be a bit stiff-limbed.
Chain is flexible, so only the weight is a factor.
 
Sordid Sinister said:
Amman de Stazia said:
Unless it is made with plenty clever joints...
It is.

Quite right. Here's a closeup of some joints.
Reproduction, 'pretty good' quality.
http://p7.hostingprod.com/@illusionarmoring.com/arm16th2.JPG

Better image of the joint connector.
http://p7.hostingprod.com/@illusionarmoring.com/Picture103.jpg

Reproduction, excellent quality. Notice the fingers on the Gauntlets.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/bob.html

A foot. Notice the seven joints in the foot to allow the foot to flex properly.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/morespurs.html

Elbow joint, Antique.
http://www.myarmoury.com/albums/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=215

Elbow and shoulder, antique.
http://www.myarmoury.com/albums/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=216
 
chain mail seems hard to do aerobics in, i would think your shoulders would start hurting or your back since chain mail isnt distributed too well.
 
GreySaber said:
If you can do cartwheels, you can move at more then a slugs pace up a set of stairs.

Yeah, but you should be able to swing a war-hammer/maul quicker than the animation allows. The truth is all weapons and people move too slowly in the game (making it playable with the simple interface). There is certainly a proportional loss of speed to wearing armor.
 
Swords and weapons are terribly heavy though. In some cases the armour might help to increase the speed of the swing, because as soon as you've got the sword moving, it's not going to stop.
 
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