Some good European Longsword technique

I do not know the provenance of this clip, but it shows some very good application of 15th c European Longsword technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m13oWgh7Hng&eurl=

BTW Easy-kill, this is from a German Fencing school also

http://www.zornhau.de/index.php

Good video. 

Edit:  My one problem with it-they're not going full contact, which can really change the techniques you use.

Yes yes i know this technique but i never practiced it. And i assure you it is 100 percent true it existed in 15 century so as fightin with daggers,flachions,halberds and so and so.

Sean Hayes directed me to a higher quality version of the clip with some commentary by the guys in it.

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=810721#post810721

Thats Mr. Clements speaking there Merentha.
Full force certainly has its place, but it is not always desirable. Keep in mind these guys are basically just screwing around.



Playlist: 


1. Salut
2. Abnehmen from Hangetort
3. Nachreisen left
4. Nachreisen right
5. Zornhau-Mutieren
6. Zornhau-Einwinden
7. Zornhau-Einwinden-Auswinden
8. Zornhau-Abnehmen
9. Unterhau-Verhängen
10. Stich with Pflug absetzen
11. Schielhau
12. Krumphau from Schrankhut on the hands
13. Krumphau from vom Tag against weapon, duplieren
14. ""
15. Zucken
16. ""
17. ""
18. ""
19. ""
20. Mittelhau abschneiden (Meyer), Stechen
21. Unterhau abschneiden (Meyer), Stechen
22. Unterhau abtragen, Stechen
23.simple Halbschwert against Mittelhau (Talhoffer)
34. Halbschwert-Block against Scheitelhau
35: ""
26: Schwertnehmen (von Danzig)
27: ""
28: simple Halbschwert against Mittelhau (Talhoffer)
29: Armringen (De Liberi)
30: Armringen (von Danzig)
31: ""
32: ""
33: Ringen am Schwert (von Danzig)
34: Halbschwert ansetzen
35: Halbschwert Hebel and Ansetzen against obere Stiche, (Ringeck)
36: Halbschwert Hebel and Ansetzen against untere Stiche, (Ringeck)
37: Halbschwert and Ansetzen against obere Stiche (Ringeck) with 5. Hut!
38: Schwertnehmen (Talhoffer)
39: Durchlaufen, (Ringeck)(right arm, rright leg)
40: Durchlaufen,(Ringeck)(left Arm, left leg)
41: Salut

The duplieren they were doing was really well done, gotta give them that. 

Brasidus, how do you do schrankhut?  One thing we found during practice that a high schrankut, with you looking between your arms, works amazingly as a counter-guard.  The written schrankhut has it relatively low, but that was nowhere near as versatile as the high one.  At least, that's what we found.

Also, in theory, a shielhau was supposed to be used to engage an ochs, yes?  We could never, ever get that to work.

Beautiful durchlaufen though.  I wish they had used kron more, the throws you can get from there are simply amazing.  One of my favorite counters, next to the all-purpose hangen.

Great, really great,  Brasidus!!!
I wanted to post the Zornhau-Link yesterday but had to go to work!

Just feel like pointing out that whereas the video displays good technique, it does not demonstrate application of technique. What I see here is what the Eastern martial arts are often being criticized for: having a willing partner. The attacker only performs one technique, and then simply waits for the other guy to do his stuff. I want to make clear, though, that this is in no way a critique of their technique, but what they show doesn't tell us much. It's the kind of training that benefits them more than the observer.

Hmmm great videos.

brasidus said:

BTW Easy-kill, this is from a German Fencing school also

http://www.zornhau.de/index.php

Click to expand...

Cheers for the link, but Offenbach is a little far away from me.  I am down south with the Tyroleans.

Those clips were awesome. I love how they aren't afriad to get physical and grapple with the opponent. Victory by any means

Ezias said:

Those clips were awesome. I love how they aren't afriad to get physical and grapple with the opponent. Victory by any means

Click to expand...

They actually didnt show a lot of grapple moves.  The had a great durchlaufen, but all the kron-based moves weren't there.

I apologize, I use the term grapple loosely. When I said grapple I merely meant that their bodies got close together and they would use knees/hands/whatever.  And although they don't do it every time you can tell that they don't shy away from the 'dirty' stuff.

Ezias said:

I apologize, I use the term grapple loosely. When I said grapple I merely meant that their bodies got close together and they would use knees/hands/whatever.  And although they don't do it every time you can tell that they don't shy away from the 'dirty' stuff.

Click to expand...

No, you're also right.  I was commenting that there are even more grapple moves.

In Ninjitsu, the idea is to defeat the opponent using as little energy as possible, hence if you can take him down without drawing your sword, all the better.

Also, drawing your sword narrows the possibilities of what you can do next, you pretty much have to use the sword. 

Easy-Kill said:

In Ninjitsu, the idea is to defeat the opponent using as little energy as possible, hence if you can take him down without drawing your sword, all the better.

Also, drawing your sword narrows the possibilities of what you can do next, you pretty much have to use the sword. 

Click to expand...

That seems so ridiculous to me.  If you have a tool designed for killing, why not use it?  You're perfectly capable of dropping the sword and instantly moving into a grapple, whereas drawing a sword takes time.  Drawing it seems to give you more options rather than fewer.

Once you have chosen the tool, then you must use it in some way shape or form.  If you draw the sword then the enemy can narrow what you are likely to do based on the way you are holding it.  If you drop it, you have to keep an eye on it because someone else might pick it up. 

My favourite techniques are the ones which half draw the sword and use it.

Merentha said:

The duplieren they were doing was really well done, gotta give them that. 

Brasidus, how do you do schrankhut?  One thing we found during practice that a high schrankut, with you looking between your arms, works amazingly as a counter-guard.  The written schrankhut has it relatively low, but that was nowhere near as versatile as the high one.  At least, that's what we found.

Also, in theory, a shielhau was supposed to be used to engage an ochs, yes?  We could never, ever get that to work.

Beautiful durchlaufen though.  I wish they had used kron more, the throws you can get from there are simply amazing.  One of my favorite counters, next to the all-purpose hangen.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind that I am just now beginning to get back into action and it has been six years of wrangling children for me since I last picked up a blade to train, and I was much more familiar with the Italian schools then. Furthermore, these days there is MUCH more material and better translations out there than from when I was active.

Schrankut seems to be a bit confusing to many of us, myself included. As a high guard It is very effective, and reminiscent of several Japanese forms, but the manuals show it low...and without much explanation. 

On the left I have never seen much viability to it. On the right it can be quite useful though. If I do start up again at Die Schaltschule I hope he can show me how to implement this better. It seems like it is very useful, but that I am missing something with it.

I'm not very good at describing these things with words I fear. As for shielhau it is one of my favorites. I am not certain about your question. Personally I like Meyers Fechtbuchs explanations.

http://www.schielhau.org/Meyer.p11.html

Where do you get hung up there? If I recall correctly I mainly used it in countering an oberhau, or ochs/pflug and wind up in ochs myself if I recall.
BTW if you are in an active studygroup they are probably far more qualified to comment on this than I. Right now I am in my office trying to refresh my aged memory of placement and terminology by mimicking the moves. My co-workers know I’m odd, but this must look particularly weird. 


Im probably not making a lot of sense I fear.

Heh, Thanks Merentha. You've really pointed out just how far I have to go to get back into the swing of things.


Besides my recall abilities sucking even in just the 6 years I have been inactive there has been so many good translation and papers written it is like a whole new world out there.  If only these rescources had been available back in 84 when I started trying to dig this stuff up!

I intend to be attending my first session with Die Schlatschule this Saturday, lets hope I dont suck wind too bad.

Brasidus, at this point in time, I AM my active study group.  The rest of them are four hours away because I left for school.  The only WMA group in the area is SCA, and the only person who knows any longsword is studying this wierd style he calls English longsword, completely different from the German.  Anyway, I can do a shiel pretty effectively, but not against an ochs. 

BY the way, where are you, and what is this Die Schlatschule you speak of?