Author Topic: Historical Discussion  (Read 153979 times)

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Rath0s

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Historical Discussion
« on: January 26, 2011, 02:02:07 PM »
As the title says, come here to discuss history within this period.

You can also point out historical accuracies in the mod here as well.

Jock

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Re: Historical Discussion
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2011, 02:57:48 PM »
First, didn't Russians have cavalry aswell?
Amidst the summer's shade of youth,
When father's sun had set -
I swore with blind and certain truth,
I never would forget.

I savoured every second's strain
In case he fell behind -
Embracing every ache and pain
To keep him in my mind.

Rath0s

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Re: Historical Discussion
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2011, 03:33:38 PM »
They have cavalry.  :?

Úlfvaldr

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Re: Historical Discussion
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2011, 03:41:46 PM »
Sorry, I created a theme and did not notice the existence of this!

Excuse me, but I do not speak English, and I write you this letter because of an online translator!
I could not understand see the following:
1) "Vikingr": Why in the singular and not plural, given the fact that the two factions (Saxons and Normans) you have named in the plural?
"Vikingr" is in the singular (as Saxon, Norman), but "Vikingar" is in the plural, as Saxons and Normans! Excuse me, but if you already have a predominant number of names that stand in the plural, then the rest correctly and beautifully execute appropriately well plural! Or, to draw up all the names in the singular!
2) "Kievan Rus": This name is purely scientific, but not historic at all! In the annals of no name "Kievan Rus", but there is a name of "Russian land", "RUS", "Russian principality, with its capital in Kiev (which is why scientists gave the name of Russia in this period of time as the Kievan Rus, as the later metropolitan center moves in Moscow)! I recommend that you name "Rus", as it stands in history and the people (as the Saxons, Danes, French) and the State itself of this nation (as the Kingdom of the Anglo-Saxons, the Danish kingdom). The name "Russian principalities is not recommended, because in the Viking Age, Russ has not been legally formalized between the princes, as the principality (this happened when the descendants of Prince Vladimir Monomakh), but was in the form of various tribes with their princes, among whom the Kiev prince Kiev city itself had a special relationship!
3) "Rus Archer": why the English name of Russian warrior? you have the other faction are the original names of national soldiers, and this fraction english!? In Russian, this class will be a warrior "Strelec"!    ("Таких мастеров именовали «лучниками». Слово «лучник» утвердилось в нашей литературе как обозначение стрелка, но это неверно: того называли «стрельцом».")
4) "Druzhina": !? in Russian this word means a band consisting of many warriors! as a soldier of this unit is called correctly "Druzhinnik"
5) "Boyar Son": this term appears in Russia only in the 13 century as the earliest! In the Viking Age is the boyars as a class of warriors and nobles in the prince. ("Впервые этот термин упоминается под 1259 годом в Великом Новгороде.") Write it right the warrior as "Boyarin"!
6) Why does not the faction of Russia fourth-class warrior, the leader, as it is with other factions? It looks very ugly and not good! Please create this class leader and call him "Knyaz"!
7) "Chieftain": !? Excuse me, but is that a Old Scandinavian word? No!

I suggest you to choose from: a) Hovding, or b) Konungr! http://norse.ulver.com/dct/zoega/k.html ("konungr")

8 ) "Hersir": !? Dear Rathos, is striking when the picture in which you have in the game hersirs on the battlefield as much as much as regular soldiers and archers? No, it's wrong and not good! Hersir is a warrior aristocracy, and it was below the Jarl, but above Hovdinga, and had under his command their retainers! bring you a snippet of text Sagas in English: it shows excellent Hersira position as the leader of the nobles and commanders: (6. KING HARALD S LAWS FOR LAND PROPERTY. "Each earl had under him four or more herses, each of whom had an estate of twenty marks yearly income bestowed on him and was bound to support twenty men-at-arms, and the earl sixty men, at their own expenses.")
(6. Landsréttr Haralds konungs. "Jarl hverr skyldi hafa undir sér 4 hersa eða fleiri, ok skyldi hverr þeirra hafa 20 marka veizlu. Jarl hverr skyldi fá konungi í her 60 hermanna af sínum einum kostnaði, en hersir hverr 20 menn.") +
 
  +but the text-passage Scandinavian Russian historian and archaeologist Gleb Lebedev in his book "The Age of the Vikings in Northern Europe and Russia":
("По крайней мере, с херада можно проследить и позиции племенной аристократии, «предводителей» — (hófðingi), из числа которых выдвигался для племенного ополчения воевода (hersir), а для области правитель (jarl) или даже король (konungr).")
All of these passages speak in favor of what Hersir is a warrior-chief, the commander of the elite.
I suggest you put in its place: a) Hirdmann (Hirdmadr), b) Lidmann, c) Holdr, d) Drengr, e) Huskarl!
9) "Bueskytter": This is the same in modern Norwegian?

(bog-limir, m. pl. ‘curved limbs’, arms and legs; maðr, m. bowman, archer). I suggest you replace your version on my "Bogmadr"!

10) Russian shields: In Russia was the most common Kite Shield similar to those depicted in this image:   but the Christian symbols to put on billboards Russian soldiers should not! Common symbol in the era of the Vikings were: animals (bear, lion, falcon), sun (especially yellow sun on a red field), the Slavic characters and symbols Rurik (Look at the symbols that are listed in the genealogical table named "НОВЕЙШАЯ ГЕНЕАЛОГИЯ ЗНАКОВ РЮРИКОВИЧЕЙ IX–XI ВЕКОВ, любезно присланная мне С. В. Белецким 1 сентября 2008 года")

The rest can be write later, as I myself am trying first to find out more (and later learn), and write, if something is beyond my comprehension or weird!
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 03:52:46 PM by Эрих фон Манштейн »
Excuse me, please, for my knowledge of English! I say through an online translator. FUN Clan "VIKINGAR" and our sub-clan "Kozak"!

Úlfvaldr

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Re: Historical Discussion
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2011, 03:45:36 PM »
Dear Rathos and Blead, thank your!
Excuse me, please, for my knowledge of English! I say through an online translator. FUN Clan "VIKINGAR" and our sub-clan "Kozak"!

Blead

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Re: Historical Discussion
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2011, 03:48:38 PM »
Post removed. Seemed a bit unncessary
The axe is mightier than the pen.

Jock

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Re: Historical Discussion
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2011, 04:23:06 PM »
Sorry, a bit offtopic, but if you need someone to make some new Russian shouts, I have a guy for that, he has some experience in that kind too. He's Russian and he has a Russian accent.
Amidst the summer's shade of youth,
When father's sun had set -
I swore with blind and certain truth,
I never would forget.

I savoured every second's strain
In case he fell behind -
Embracing every ache and pain
To keep him in my mind.

Turanien

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Re: Historical Discussion
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2011, 04:23:28 PM »
Sorry, a bit offtopic, but if you need someone to make some new Russian shouts, I have a guy for that, he has some experience in that kind too. He's Russian and he has a Russian accent.

 :o :shock:!

Jock

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Re: Historical Discussion
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2011, 04:24:14 PM »
They have cavalry.  :?
They do? Crap, then it was the raiding mode problem... :D
Amidst the summer's shade of youth,
When father's sun had set -
I swore with blind and certain truth,
I never would forget.

I savoured every second's strain
In case he fell behind -
Embracing every ache and pain
To keep him in my mind.

Turanien

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Re: Historical Discussion
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2011, 04:27:02 PM »
They have cavalry.  :?
They do? Crap, then it was the raiding mode problem... :D

Some maps have the no_horses tag attached.  :)

Jock

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Re: Historical Discussion
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2011, 04:28:21 PM »
Quote
  :o :shock:
The current Russian voices sound a bit fake, no offence.
Amidst the summer's shade of youth,
When father's sun had set -
I swore with blind and certain truth,
I never would forget.

I savoured every second's strain
In case he fell behind -
Embracing every ache and pain
To keep him in my mind.

Turanien

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Re: Historical Discussion
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2011, 04:29:04 PM »
Quote
  :o :shock:
The current Russian voices sound a bit fake, no offence.

Well, they are directly from Native!  :lol: Get in touch with Rathos, I'm sure he would appreciate your offer.

Jock

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Re: Historical Discussion
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2011, 04:30:30 PM »
Quote
  :o :shock:
The current Russian voices sound a bit fake, no offence.

Well, they are directly from Native!  :lol: Get in touch with Rathos, I'm sure he would appreciate your offer.
Okay, I'll talk to him... later... Simpsons time now :)
Amidst the summer's shade of youth,
When father's sun had set -
I swore with blind and certain truth,
I never would forget.

I savoured every second's strain
In case he fell behind -
Embracing every ache and pain
To keep him in my mind.

Moeckerkalfie

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Re: Historical Discussion
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2011, 07:28:37 PM »
Quote
  :o :shock:
The current Russian voices sound a bit fake, no offence.

Well, they are directly from Native!  :lol: Get in touch with Rathos, I'm sure he would appreciate your offer.
Okay, I'll talk to him... later... Simpsons time now :)

Ah if you really record anything, could you make the taunts a little more aggressive than they are at the moment?
I remember how I once charged into an overwhelming enemy force in the ice-map, and was forced to the brink of the ice sheet we were fighting on. When I slowly started sliding into the water I wanted to hurl a last heroic insult at my enemies, but instead they saw an obviously confused warrior slip into icy doom muttering a last "Outforra stroull arrwe?"  :D

And thrashing someone to death while hailing their brotherhood of war is a little unsatisfying as well...

Gule

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Re: Historical Discussion
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2011, 09:18:44 PM »
See questions above. ^^



1. The reason for this is because we haven't chosen an historical name for the Vikingr faction, "Vikingr" as a faction name is a modern creation, "The Vikingr" being an alternative way of referring to the "The Vikings". As you point out, it is actually a quite weird way of saying it, because what it actually means is "The Viking". The word "Viking" of course also has a very debated origin, as most contemporary sources mention it as a regular mans name, as it still is in modern Scandinavia. But this is a discussion for an other time and place.

2. This is (as you mentioned) the same issue as with the previous question and we have therefore decided to use a modern name.

3-5. These names are just temporary, since we are Scandinavians and none of us speak Russian, we did the best we could for the time being. Since release we have received tips from Russian native speakers and the names will be corrected.     

6. There is such a class planned, the mod is however still in "beta" and everything is naturally not finished yet.

7. We are aware of this. The chieftain class was put in the game a long time ago when we were just making the mod for our own clans entertainment, it has simply not been given a proper name yet.

8. Thank you for pointing that out. However, there is of course again the problem with a lack of reliable contemporary sources when it comes to Viking age warrior classes.

9. Yes that is a modern Norwegian word.

10. The Rus shields are just there temporary, since the proper Rus shields haven't been created yet. But thank you for providing inspirational images and facts.

That should answer all of your questions, thank you for the feedback and feel free to ask if something feels strange. Keep in mind though that the mod isn't finished yet, and there's many changes to come.

Please keep a nicer tone though, you felt a bit aggressive in your post, but that might be the translators fault.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 09:24:08 PM by Gule »