General thoughts and others

hello all!

for a start nice mod! nice work it's awesome!

to start with the maps are fabulous! for the first in MB : warband (750 hours of game for nearly a year) the maps are nice to play on they look so good!.

i like the different types of game except i dont really get to play otherthings then battle!

i could rattle on over all the fantastic stuff there is in the mod but i believe that its by pointing out the flaws that the mod will grow!
what shall i start with :

The game seems sometimes a bit stuck in a massive 1h shielders game : i hit your shield, you hit mine, i hit yours, you hit mine... so sometimes i gets a bit boring. but i guess thats just me

balancing : when a team is on a winning streak (3-0) it is very likely that this team will go on complete rampage. For the very simple reason that when you stay alive/win you get to buy heavier equipment, on the other hand the other team is lightly equipped! so you get heavily equipped team vs lighlty equipped team = total rape. (iv just come out of a 11-0 battle...)

now about weapons and stuff:

all the knobbed mace stuff = imo...useless! less range, less speed less damage then a sword! the knock down will surely not compensate all of that!

on the saxon side you get the default sword and you can chose two better swords(named saxon sword)...better, dearer more like! for slightly more damage there is an insane loss in range! knowing that everyone seems to have high athletics people run in and out of your range, lets not talk about berserkr for vikings they can hit and run ( but im not saying they are imbalanced, they run naked...)

talking about berserkr, is it right that they are allowed to pick a shield? it highly compensates what is their only weak point...not having a shield! the hard counter against bersekr is the throwing weapon! ( i know it would be unrealistic not allowing them to wear a shield : yea everyone knows how to bend over and hold a shield in their hand, but for balance)

i feel i had something to whine about battle axes but ic ant remember...maybe the fact you get so easily outranged...

throwing weapons...i dont know if youv noticed but at the end of the map it just becomes this one big throwing contest! I discovered while playing that you can pick up a throwing weapon you dont have ( yea thats normal), you get to respawn with it(yea i guess so if you had some left), and even more : you get to respawn with it even though you threw it back and you havnt selected the item to start with.

So to make it clearer i go around on the battlefield, someone throws me a francisca and fails. i pick it up and throw it back (and fail). next round ill spawn with two of them!

also iv got a question about end round music. i read on the FAQ you could disable/able the end round music...well i cant put it on! is that normal? it's a pity because i love them, i went into the sounds pack. i listened to them over and over again and i think i even spotted a steam message noise a the 6 second on one of them  .

that's all for the whining and trolling for the moment 

Oh yea! i reserve the right to be completly wrong at any moment! 

First I have to agree with you its great mod, it's hard not to love devs for these little things that make it so much more enjoyable.
About 1-handers domination it's mainly because of the period mod takes place in - ''viking age" was time of shieldwalls and extensive shields use, which have been phased out later in middle ages by developement of cavalry and better armors, I think it's good mod is trying to stay historicaly accurate, besides nothing stop you to put down your shield and duel with manual block. You have some selection of 2 handed axes, and spears used without shield can also be really dangerous.
Knobbded mace, sure it's shorter than sword and lack thrust attack, but it's also cheaper, so it balances out and knockdown should not be ignored it sometimes can guarantee you victory with 1 hit.
Saxon swords are little underwhelming I agree, I usually stick to the standard one until I have spare money.
Throwing weapons are not that bad, francisca have very low quantity, and it's not always 1 hit kill, javs are more dangrous imo, still not very op.
Things that I have not mentioned I have no solid opinion/knowlege about them, I think this mod needs little more work, but it's already awesome in it's current state .
Edit: 1 thing that may be little op/imbalanced imo is kievan scimitar, I mean it's fast, with great range(I think best range for 1 handed swords) and not that expensive, it's easily affordable in round 1 and comparing it to other sword it outclasses them quite a bit.

I guess your right about that vikign age stuff, with shields.

for the knobbed mace maybee its cheap but i still dont think its worth it, i think ill have to try it out more, you managed one hit kills with it? i havnt! or you men a knock down hit + another hit when hes on the ground? i beleive range is crucial in tihs mod and the mace doesnt stick out. you usually can get a decent sword and armor for the money at first round.

for the throwing weapons im not saying overpowered or under...im just saying i beleive its weird that if i pick up an enemy throwing weapon that i throw back straight after, i get to spawn with it every round even though i dont have it at the end of round

so far i use javelins, i pick up a fransisca on the battlefield throw it and then ill get to spawn with two of them next round! ( i cant remember if i have to stay alive at the end of round, probably...)

lactose_the_intolerant said:

I guess your right about that vikign age stuff, with shields.

for the knobbed mace maybee its cheap but i still dont think its worth it, i think ill have to try it out more, you managed one hit kills with it? i havnt! or you men a knock down hit + another hit when hes on the ground? i beleive range is crucial in tihs mod and the mace doesnt stick out. you usually can get a decent sword and armor for the money at first round.

for the throwing weapons im not saying overpowered or under...im just saying i beleive its weird that if i pick up an enemy throwing weapon that i throw back straight after, i get to spawn with it every round even though i dont have it at the end of round

so far i use javelins, i pick up a fransisca on the battlefield throw it and then ill get to spawn with two of them next round! ( i cant remember if i have to stay alive at the end of round, probably...)

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About knobbed mace I mean hit+knockdown+other hit(s), yes I doubt it can one shot, maybe with head shot without helmet but I am not sure either.
I think I get what you have on mind about throwing weapons, yea it something resembles freesbie throwing contest but it's integral part of throwing weapons that you can pick them up and throw back at enemy , this picking up and getting weapons in next round is heritage of native I think, it is sometimes a bit weird when I end weapons that I picked up and dropped, but usually I can handle it .

Overall i feel that the saxons are quite weak. They have nothing decent and no particular strength. Weak archers, meh inf and no horsemen. Their armor is mediocre at best.

They need a buff, methinks.

I've thought about the same, Saxon infantry could perhaps need a bit higher weapon proficiencies.

Saxons are just the faction anyone is free to buttrape.

I agree that the mace seems useless in this mod. Knockdowns don't occur enough to make up for having such low damage and short range.

The only other thing that I think is a bit off in this mod is the price of some items vs how good they are. Take the berserkrs armour for example. The first two choices cost 10 gold, and the last option is 40 gold. Because the price difference is so minimal, there's really no reason anyone would ever buy the first two unless they prefer how it looks.

saxon stuff is short and ineffective. A simple norman sword is far better then any of the saxon ones, and the axes as are shot as a dagger.
Which leaves two handers, and spears. Nothing really good there.

I cant really recall how it was in native, i play more crpg. But it seems weird to me you can respawn with a whole lot of throwing weapons because you picked up one and the battlefield and you dont have it left at the end of the round!

IMO , saxons are the weakest. They did kick a northern army before trying to battle off the normans!

For the berserkr i dont think the prices of the coat needs to be changed. The body armor give low protection so i doesnt need a price increase ( but i can recall an armor that costs 300 and givers the sames stats as the berserkr coat but slighlty better if i can recal correctly. Nowing the bersekr coat costs only 40)

the only reason i would take an aother armor then the bear coat that covers your back is that no one recognizes you as a barsekr! Everybody seems to think that its cool, that it will make them a true warrior and that they are sexy beats! (or simply its the best armor....). The fact is im used to see a bersekr ith the top half naked, i get a nasty surprise when the bersekr has put on a different armor...

Also the top naked bersekr armor screams out loud an clear : ARCHERS, ME, SHOOT ME!

Very nice, thank you for the thread. All shall be looked at before the next, forthcoming patch!

A_Mustang said:

Overall i feel that the saxons are quite weak. They have nothing decent and no particular strength. Weak archers, meh inf and no horsemen. Their armor is mediocre at best.

They need a buff, methinks.

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I would have to re-do the research again but an impression I got of what was termed usually the 'general fyrd' (being the arriere-ban/levy of everyone, compared to what they term the "Select fyrd", being those who are well equipped and solid soldiers) was that they used bows, but also stones and javelins. I think it could be neat for the Saxons to perhaps have a "higher Fyrd" (Thegn) and "Lower fyrd" (geneatas?). The Higher Fyrd would be what the thegn is now (with perhaps a cheaper to access mail byrnie), the Lower Fyrd would be a kind of light/medium infantry - restricted to the non largest shields, able to access javelins at a cheaper(?) cost, limited in armor and weapon availability.

I'm just doing a brief cursory glance, but Regia Anglorum seems to be suggesting a mail byrne was expected to possess a mail coat, so perhaps providing a slightly cheaper byrnie for the Saxons could make them the "Defensive oriented better armored faction" compared to multi-arms Normans and aggressive vikings.

http://www.regia.org/fyrd2.htm

Sahran said:

A_Mustang said:

Overall i feel that the saxons are quite weak. They have nothing decent and no particular strength. Weak archers, meh inf and no horsemen. Their armor is mediocre at best.

They need a buff, methinks.

Click to expand...

I would have to re-do the research again but an impression I got of what was termed usually the 'general fyrd' (being the arriere-ban/levy of everyone, compared to what they term the "Select fyrd", being those who are well equipped and solid soldiers) was that they used bows, but also stones and javelins. I think it could be neat for the Saxons to perhaps have a "higher Fyrd" (Thegn) and "Lower fyrd" (geneatas?). The Higher Fyrd would be what the thegn is now (with perhaps a cheaper to access mail byrnie), the Lower Fyrd would be a kind of light/medium infantry - restricted to the non largest shields, able to access javelins at a cheaper(?) cost, limited in armor and weapon availability.

I'm just doing a brief cursory glance, but Regia Anglorum seems to be suggesting a mail byrne was expected to possess a mail coat, so perhaps providing a slightly cheaper byrnie for the Saxons could make them the "Defensive oriented better armored faction" compared to multi-arms Normans and aggressive vikings.

http://www.regia.org/fyrd2.htm

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Hmm, A heavy and a light infantry class to make up for the lack of cavalry?

lactose_the_intolerant said:

I cant really recall how it was in native, i play more crpg. But it seems weird to me you can respawn with a whole lot of throwing weapons because you picked up one and the battlefield and you dont have it left at the end of the round!

Click to expand...

Same happens in native.

Sahran said:

A_Mustang said:

Overall i feel that the saxons are quite weak. They have nothing decent and no particular strength. Weak archers, meh inf and no horsemen. Their armor is mediocre at best.

They need a buff, methinks.

Click to expand...

I would have to re-do the research again but an impression I got of what was termed usually the 'general fyrd' (being the arriere-ban/levy of everyone, compared to what they term the "Select fyrd", being those who are well equipped and solid soldiers) was that they used bows, but also stones and javelins. I think it could be neat for the Saxons to perhaps have a "higher Fyrd" (Thegn) and "Lower fyrd" (geneatas?). The Higher Fyrd would be what the thegn is now (with perhaps a cheaper to access mail byrnie), the Lower Fyrd would be a kind of light/medium infantry - restricted to the non largest shields, able to access javelins at a cheaper(?) cost, limited in armor and weapon availability.

I'm just doing a brief cursory glance, but Regia Anglorum seems to be suggesting a mail byrne was expected to possess a mail coat, so perhaps providing a slightly cheaper byrnie for the Saxons could make them the "Defensive oriented better armored faction" compared to multi-arms Normans and aggressive vikings.

http://www.regia.org/fyrd2.htm

Click to expand...

We do have the thegn and huscarl classes for the Saxons. The last of which is meant to fulfill heavy duties for the Saxons. I do however think they need beefing up a little more to make this distinction more assertive... Watch for the next patch. 

lactose_the_intolerant said:

I cant really recall how it was in native, i play more crpg. But it seems weird to me you can respawn with a whole lot of throwing weapons because you picked up one and the battlefield and you dont have it left at the end of the round!

Click to expand...

I think that's a great system. That way you can earn things you might not be able to buy. I love it!

I just wanna say that the saxon mail is weak. (only 30 body) A little buff would be nice. (maybe to 34) 

I take back what I said about the maces, they're very useful in longboat fights.

I'm getting an inkling as to what causes the massive amount of team-kills. Impatience and an overestimation of one's own skill usually but this coupled with a propensity for big axes, close combat and no reticule for archery really kicks it up a notch. Shooting into a close melee is bad enough (I'm guilty of it too) but without a reticule it's just asking for disaster.

That and several people hitting teammates for perceived slights and disgreeances. Had that happen twice now. :/ Really disconcerting.

AWdeV said:

I'm getting an inkling as to what causes the massive amount of team-kills. Impatience and an overestimation of one's own skill usually but this coupled with a propensity for big axes, close combat and no reticule for archery really kicks it up a notch. Shooting into a close melee is bad enough (I'm guilty of it too) but without a reticule it's just asking for disaster.

That and several people hitting teammates for perceived slights and disgreeances. Had that happen twice now. :/ Really disconcerting.

Click to expand...

I am a witness!