Black_Scythe
Knight
Black_Scythe said:
Sorry to bring it up again, but is this do-able?
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Knight
Sorry to bring it up again, but is this do-able?
Wyzilla said:GodHandApostole said:Considering that cutting swords remained popular for nearly all of the chainmail life-span, I doubt they just bounced offKinetic energy hurts like hell, even with mail on and some swords were still very "choppy" in this time period, even without parallel edges and very wide fullers... Sure, an axe or a mace will be a small margin more effective, but overall, wearing armour reduces damage significantly; it doesn't negate it entirely.
Now, granted, the stuff depicted in most period art pieces is a gross exageration: I do not believe that, however poor the quality of a mail, a sword would be able to slice it open and amputate an arm or split someone skull open through a mail coif or run someone through with a thrust. But even so, poor iron quality could be a factor too.
No they don't. Tests have been done with high quality armor, and cutting with a sword on maille doesn't have much of an impact when wearing padded gambeson underneath the maille, or you're wearing double maille. Strikes with a sword against maille to deal damage by raw kinetic punch have to strike an area of raised bone, such as the shins or shoulders, although this is mitigated by padded armor worn either under or over the hauberk (and well, strikes on the shin only happen if the enemy is mounted and you're on foot).
I guess they used some dead pig for these tests.
I myself fight with spatha type swords which aren't terribly different from those used in the 12th century and from my experience they have a terrible blow if you use them correctly.
You don't need splashing blood or broken bones to get someone to a point where he is unable to fight. I got hit on the upper arm once where I was in fact wearing mail and some light padding.
The last pathetic movement my arm did that day was to bearly lift the shield to protect myself from the second blow that came immediatly afterwards.
My arm was in pain but well a day later. But on that day there was no way I could use it anymore for anything. I even needed help to get me out of the mail as I wasn't able to lift my arm to let it slip off my body.
Swords can be quite effective bludgeon tools too.
It's the battle of Sirmium of 1167. The Byzantines and Hungarians first expended their lances and spears, then they blunted their swords and finally the Byzantines turned to their maces. Here are the relevant quotes:Jason L. said:
[quote author=Niketas Choniates]
...As soon as the Romans received his attack, there were strikes and counterstrikes with spears as the warriors sparred at each other and pushed and heaved. The lances or spears were soon broken and the men on the two sides drew out their swords and fell upon each other. But they too were eventually blunted, smitten as they were against the copper and iron panoplies, and the Paeonians [Hungarians] were convinced that the Romans had no other means to resist any further charges. Yet the Romans drew out their iron maces, which they always carried with them. With these they could strike deadly blows at the faces and heads of their foe. Those among the Paeonians who were dazed by these blows withdrew to the rear. Many received serious wounds and once that continuous army formation was finally broken, there was none among the Romans who did not overcome an adversary to gain a battle trophy or who did not take possession of a horse after vanquishing its rider.[/quote]
[quote author=Ioannes Kinnamos]
With their spears being already broken and their swords blunted, the warriors resorted to their maces and there was such a murderous fight that the plain was covered with the dead.[/quote]
Everything has it's use...
I've always favored the Warhammer for myself and my companions simply because it has the knock down feature and I want the prisoners.
STABS or thrusts from swords should not be ignored however. I'm a fan of Mike Loades and he's a pretty good historical researcher of combat. Having read his book "Swords and Swordsman" as well. On his tv programs, he's shown how heavy plated knights are grappled and brought to the ground and stabbed in weak / open areas: Face, neck, arm joints, hip joints, back of legs, anus ect ect. Of course we cannot grapple in Warband but you can't discount swords.
Stories of old can be interpreted in different ways, the words written as "the swords were blunted" could also mean they got used to death. Meaning they did kill allot of people but that they broke down due to prolonged fighting. No weapon lasts indefinitely.
In a battle between China and Japan, the barrels of the Japanese machine guns melted due to the continuous charge of the Chinese. In effect, they were "Blunted" from over use, but they still did the job in the interim.
Unfortunately, there is no way to selectively set the game to MINUS Cutting damage from swords onto heavy mailed knights. Not that I know of anyway.
I've always favored the Warhammer for myself and my companions simply because it has the knock down feature and I want the prisoners.
STABS or thrusts from swords should not be ignored however. I'm a fan of Mike Loades and he's a pretty good historical researcher of combat. Having read his book "Swords and Swordsman" as well. On his tv programs, he's shown how heavy plated knights are grappled and brought to the ground and stabbed in weak / open areas: Face, neck, arm joints, hip joints, back of legs, anus ect ect. Of course we cannot grapple in Warband but you can't discount swords.
Stories of old can be interpreted in different ways, the words written as "the swords were blunted" could also mean they got used to death. Meaning they did kill allot of people but that they broke down due to prolonged fighting. No weapon lasts indefinitely.
In a battle between China and Japan, the barrels of the Japanese machine guns melted due to the continuous charge of the Chinese. In effect, they were "Blunted" from over use, but they still did the job in the interim.
Unfortunately, there is no way to selectively set the game to MINUS Cutting damage from swords onto heavy mailed knights. Not that I know of anyway.
I believe that's what the primary source (Choniates, in this case) is saying as well, hence why it says they were 'eventually' blunted. It's also interesting that in this case the maces are reported to have been most useful against the enemy's heads (then again, these were two heavy cavalry forces fighting, so the head is the most obvious target anyway, especially since you can't stab with a mace).Subitai said:
Well nobody here says that swords are useless . If you read my previous post , I'm just saying that swords weren't that effective against well armored opponents but still most of the soldiers didn't have that luxury. I'm with NikeBG , the chronicle is very wall describing a situation as reported by eye witnesses most probably . I know that you are an expert of tweaks while I'm not : Would 't it be possible to obtain a more realistic representation by changing some stats . obviously there should be quite some testing .....There could be some revolutionary balance out there waiting for us !!!!!
For me, possibly an almost perfect scenario would be if each hit would deal two kinds of damage at the same time - its "primary" one and the blunt one. So f.e. instead of hitting for 35c, you'd be hitting for 25c and 10b (or maybe even better - a variable, i.e. 8-13b). And then each armour would have its stats of absorbing each kind of damage (x for c, y for p, z for b). But I guess that would make things too complicated and increase the calculations in battles, so...
Hmm, wasn't there a realistic mechanics mod for Warband already? I remember some mods (1257 f.e.) had some pretty good difference in the armour ratings between heavy armour and not-so-heavy ones, which really made the difference between the elite troops and the peasants.
Hmm, wasn't there a realistic mechanics mod for Warband already? I remember some mods (1257 f.e.) had some pretty good difference in the armour ratings between heavy armour and not-so-heavy ones, which really made the difference between the elite troops and the peasants.
I was referring to the calculation of damage through armor , I don't remember the exact values, but it' kind like: Blunt x1 , perce x2/3 , cut x1/2 . There could be some modification of those values . I don't know if blunt x5/4 is possible for example .
One could modify : The amount of damage for maces iron maces ecc. like from 28 to 30 making it 30 to 32 with the respective variations ( heavy, balanced, ciped ..) or something.
We could level up the stats of metallic armors in the same time thus making blunt damage the best choice . This is not game breaking because a mace was double as lethal to a naked head than a head with a helmet .
If possible , make armored people drop unconscious rather than ded which is representing the effects of a blunt damage even if the weapon is dealing cutting damage . This is possible because there is already a calculation that gives more possibility of taking prisoners when hitting with blunt weapon.
Just think of it and make your suggestions ...
One could modify : The amount of damage for maces iron maces ecc. like from 28 to 30 making it 30 to 32 with the respective variations ( heavy, balanced, ciped ..) or something.
We could level up the stats of metallic armors in the same time thus making blunt damage the best choice . This is not game breaking because a mace was double as lethal to a naked head than a head with a helmet .
If possible , make armored people drop unconscious rather than ded which is representing the effects of a blunt damage even if the weapon is dealing cutting damage . This is possible because there is already a calculation that gives more possibility of taking prisoners when hitting with blunt weapon.
Just think of it and make your suggestions ...
soluuloi said:
Of course you realize by now that Europe 1200 is one of the biggest MOD maps ever with tons of calculations going on. The more parties on the overall map, the more the game has to work. In addition if you move far away from one spot you might miss some of the bandit types...but by default there should be plenty around YOU. I think they designed this MOD to be PLAYER - CENTRIC in that way. I.e. that most of the spawn actions happen in the vicinity of the player. I think it spawns every 24 hours ( can't remember now) I recommend just for a test use the Cheat [ Ctrl + t ] to view all the parties on the map and see were the bandits are in relation to yourself.
For example if you stay at a town overnight and the Mod spawns new bandits in your general area...by default there should be a possible number of 15 bandit parties all around you. If the look at the info below you'll see what I mean.
If you want to change the amount of bandits yourself then here you go dude
: Way to change the maximum number of Bandit types spawned (Ref # 67b)
** BONUS EFFECT...for me this tweak had the added bonus of improving my main map travel speed.
Difficulty...fairly easy
MAP TRAVEL LAG Reference thread: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,306490.0.html
Open up scripts.txt and search for: spawn_bandits -1
- Once there, the numbers to look at are 2147483678 2 1224979098644774917
That's a less than check, if the total parties on the map is less than (?) when the script is run, it spawns more.
- There are 4 instances of this number series to look for and it's the numbers in Red right after them:
2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 4 = Marauders
2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 3 = Bandits
2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 2 = Brigands
2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 6 = Looters
If you want to see the actual E1200 lines:
spawn_bandits -1
48 2281 3 1224979098644774912 648518346341351483 648518346341351482 11 1 1224979098644774913 1609 2 1224979098644774914 1224979098644774913 4 0 1073741855 2 1224979098644774914 576460752303423501 1073741855 2 1224979098644774914 576460752303423500 1073741855 2 1224979098644774914 576460752303423499 31 2 1224979098644774914 576460752303423494 2281 3 1224979098644774915 648518346341351424 1224979098644774913 4 0 2147483678 2 1224979098644774912 1224979098644774915 1680 2 1224979098644774916 1224979098644774913 2147483678 2 1224979098644774916 1 1232 1 1224979098644774913 3 0 3 0 3 0 4 0 2310 2 1224979098644774917 576460752303423500 2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 4 1103 1 20 1100 2 648518346341351424 576460752303423500 3 0 4 0 2310 2 1224979098644774917 576460752303423499 2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 3 1103 1 20 1100 2 648518346341351424 576460752303423499 3 0 4 0 2310 2 1224979098644774917 576460752303423501 2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 2 1103 1 20 1100 2 648518346341351424 576460752303423501 3 0 4 0 2310 2 1224979098644774917 576460752303423494 2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 6 1103 1 20 1100 2 648518346341351424 576460752303423494 2133 2 1224979098644774918 72057594037927936 4 0 200 1 504403158265495623 1603 3 1224979098644774918 262144 1 5 0 1603 3 1224979098644774918 262144 0 3 0 3 0
Details:
- What I did was to lower each spawn check to 1.
- You could also put 0 for looters if you didn't want to see them anymore... or whatever you decide.
- I turned on Cheat Ctrl + T to see how many bandits of ANY type where roaming around.
- Then I hunted and killed as many of each type I could find.
- After a couple of days only...I noticed very few bandit types available that I could see and a big difference in my travel lag. I could go LONG distances w/o stuttering.
- I do have a decent PC system for running Warband with plenty of ram and a good video card. But still, I needed this tweak to help me.
*** Lastly one obvious tip to improve Map lag in E1200 don't play with "no quitting without saving option on" which autosaves when you enter towns, battle scenes etc. Try to start a game with quitting without saving enabled.
EDIT
In my personal game I prefer Brigands, so I put zero for all the rest and just 4 for Brigands. Meaning every bandit spawn there are only 4 parties of Brigands to fight. Works great!
MAP TRAVEL LAG Reference thread: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,306490.0.html
Open up scripts.txt and search for: spawn_bandits -1
- Once there, the numbers to look at are 2147483678 2 1224979098644774917
That's a less than check, if the total parties on the map is less than (?) when the script is run, it spawns more.
- There are 4 instances of this number series to look for and it's the numbers in Red right after them:
2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 4 = Marauders
2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 3 = Bandits
2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 2 = Brigands
2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 6 = Looters
If you want to see the actual E1200 lines:
spawn_bandits -1
48 2281 3 1224979098644774912 648518346341351483 648518346341351482 11 1 1224979098644774913 1609 2 1224979098644774914 1224979098644774913 4 0 1073741855 2 1224979098644774914 576460752303423501 1073741855 2 1224979098644774914 576460752303423500 1073741855 2 1224979098644774914 576460752303423499 31 2 1224979098644774914 576460752303423494 2281 3 1224979098644774915 648518346341351424 1224979098644774913 4 0 2147483678 2 1224979098644774912 1224979098644774915 1680 2 1224979098644774916 1224979098644774913 2147483678 2 1224979098644774916 1 1232 1 1224979098644774913 3 0 3 0 3 0 4 0 2310 2 1224979098644774917 576460752303423500 2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 4 1103 1 20 1100 2 648518346341351424 576460752303423500 3 0 4 0 2310 2 1224979098644774917 576460752303423499 2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 3 1103 1 20 1100 2 648518346341351424 576460752303423499 3 0 4 0 2310 2 1224979098644774917 576460752303423501 2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 2 1103 1 20 1100 2 648518346341351424 576460752303423501 3 0 4 0 2310 2 1224979098644774917 576460752303423494 2147483678 2 1224979098644774917 6 1103 1 20 1100 2 648518346341351424 576460752303423494 2133 2 1224979098644774918 72057594037927936 4 0 200 1 504403158265495623 1603 3 1224979098644774918 262144 1 5 0 1603 3 1224979098644774918 262144 0 3 0 3 0
Details:
- What I did was to lower each spawn check to 1.
- You could also put 0 for looters if you didn't want to see them anymore... or whatever you decide.
- I turned on Cheat Ctrl + T to see how many bandits of ANY type where roaming around.
- Then I hunted and killed as many of each type I could find.
- After a couple of days only...I noticed very few bandit types available that I could see and a big difference in my travel lag. I could go LONG distances w/o stuttering.
- I do have a decent PC system for running Warband with plenty of ram and a good video card. But still, I needed this tweak to help me.
*** Lastly one obvious tip to improve Map lag in E1200 don't play with "no quitting without saving option on" which autosaves when you enter towns, battle scenes etc. Try to start a game with quitting without saving enabled.
EDIT
In my personal game I prefer Brigands, so I put zero for all the rest and just 4 for Brigands. Meaning every bandit spawn there are only 4 parties of Brigands to fight. Works great!
EDIT: I just checked Simple triggers and my best guess according to the spawn script is that it's either every 24 hrs or 30 hrs. Between those 2 are the best choices for this to edit and I could probably turn it into another tweak option for this mod.
Kosekas
Recruit
Absolutely not agreeing with Estonian Chief names. Firstly the English pronounciation, secondly absurd names only two of whom I've heard. I know there is basically nothing known about the Estonian chieftans at the time and the only source is a heavily biased Chronicle. Still, I'd like to vouch for serious reorganisation in the names, at least.
Also, the villages/Forts. Main issue is Jurjev (Yuryev) village and Tarbatu fort which are one and the same thing, there are also weird name choices for other places. Would like to discuss more thoroughly and not in such a rant style, but I wait if the devs respond or ignore.
Also, the villages/Forts. Main issue is Jurjev (Yuryev) village and Tarbatu fort which are one and the same thing, there are also weird name choices for other places. Would like to discuss more thoroughly and not in such a rant style, but I wait if the devs respond or ignore.
Any constructive criticism and especially suggestions are more than welcome. I'd recommend you do it in the respective research thread though.
