Author Topic: Weapon Durability?  (Read 1225 times)

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ares007

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Re: Weapon Durability?
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2009, 01:30:53 AM »
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You're facing a knight in heavy steel armor, and you both swing and bash at each other with your swords. In the end, it boils down to an endurance test. The sharpness of your blade means nothing because you're swinging it against resilient steel, and your razor edge eventually grows dull. Your fine slicing and dicing weapon has become essentially a club, and your only lethal option is thrusting into a weak spot in your enemy's armor.

You got the part right about fully armoured fighting being more about thrusting. However, the [European] 2-edged sword was never used anything like a club except in a particular technique that uses the cross and pummel to deliver a blunt blow. If your edge would get bashed up and such and didn't do any significant damage, why should you even waste your energy trying? I would focus my energy on getting a thrust in.

Though, that is against plate armor. A good longsword (or even arming sword) can cut chainmail and can definitely thrust through it. It takes a good stroke and proper technique, but a good sword will do it.

MnB doesn't allow for a good thrusting fight with half-swording and everything, so I think it makes better for gameplay to have swords to cutting armor. (however there isn't good plate armor in multiplayer)

Maybe that's what you were trying to say  :P But just in case, I wanted to clarify  :D

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It holds a razor-sharp edge

Another misconception for European double-edged swords. The edge of a longsword or arming sword was certainly sharp enough to make a cut or to inflict a terrible wound when swung, but it wasn't so sharp that you couldn't grab ahold of it with a good grip. The cross-section of the edge was actually shaped similar to the cross-section of a pecan (i.e. more rounded). This was to help protect the edge but also to allow a swordsman to half-sword without fear of his hand being cut. Don't let the poorly researched (and poorly balanced) Cold Steel replicas fool you.

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Nobody in real life would try, or be able to, block a warhammer with a shortsword, or any sword really.
Especially not a warhammer swung from a charging horse.

well, in foot combat, a shortsword could fairly easily bind with the ridiculous maul thing in MnB. Then the man holding the hammer would probably do better to let go of his ridiculous "weapon" in an attempt perhaps disarm or wrestle with the swordsman. Of course, swung from a horse... that's a different story  :P

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this is brilliant. this would give heavy, slow, minimal reach weapons like the war hammer usability.

I think that if they had better armor in the game, the hammers would be more usable. The current 2-handed hammer is actually kind of ridiculous though. A proper warhammer would look much more like the military pick does.


gradually degrading damage output might be a good idea though (though the thrust should not degrade much if at all). It would encourage people to pick and choose their strikes more carefully. I don't know; maybe it would slow melee down.

ManStarr

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Re: Weapon Durability?
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2009, 02:40:12 AM »
  The arm damage is a great idea for the whole blocking giant weapons with a dagger thing..

attribute loss is good, but how sick would broken bones be? and BATTLE SURGEONS?!     
   ...not even joking.  Would be especially interesting with the "two people on a horse" idea I saw a few days ago..
but then I suppose the whole game would turn into "try to get a hit in, but run away if they hit you once"

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Re: Weapon Durability?
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2009, 02:44:48 AM »
(click to show/hide)

I totally agree with you.

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Re: Weapon Durability?
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2009, 02:46:07 AM »
  The arm damage is a great idea for the whole blocking giant weapons with a dagger thing..

attribute loss is good, but how sick would broken bones be? and BATTLE SURGEONS?!     
   ...not even joking.  Would be especially interesting with the "two people on a horse" idea I saw a few days ago..
but then I suppose the whole game would turn into "try to get a hit in, but run away if they hit you once"

Most people get pretty flammable when people suggest any sort of HP recovery around here, be it magic or medical.  It's one of the things people love about the game: you risk more.  Just a heads-up :wink:.
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Wu-long

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Re: Weapon Durability?
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2009, 03:12:21 AM »
It seems as if plate amour is made to counter slashes am i correct?

ManStarr

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Re: Weapon Durability?
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2009, 03:28:15 AM »
yeah, I'm not talking about healing hp, because I love that about the game too.   Like I said before, I hate games with healing because all anyone ever does is run.

I mean a broken bone system, somehow set up so it's generally more effective to defend yourself rather than run away.   I'm thinking since the game's all about numbers, having two people off the battlefield for a prolonged period of time (the injured+the surgeon) would be a big disadvantage

plus, how cool would having a large scale battle going on into the night, where both sides split apart to fix up their wounded?  I haven't played it at all yet so I don't know if there's respawning because that would kind of ruin the idea...  but I'm thinking how epic it would be to survive the battle with a broken arm and a head injury haha.   Or winning with 20 beat up and damaged guys against a group of fresh soldiers.

ares007

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Re: Weapon Durability?
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2009, 04:29:20 AM »
It seems as if plate amour is made to counter slashes am i correct?

I believe so. There have also been tests that show a good longbow and arrow could only penetrate good plate armor within a very short range (I don't want to say a number because I don't trust my memory right now  :P )

To deal with plate armor, a knight would "half-sword" his longsword (hold the hilt with one hand and the blade with the other) to get better tip control and try to thrust into less protected areas (like the groin, face, throat, armpits, and etc). This would typically involve a lot of grappling.  :mrgreen:

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plus, how cool would having a large scale battle going on into the night, where both sides split apart to fix up their wounded?  I haven't played it at all yet so I don't know if there's respawning because that would kind of ruin the idea...  but I'm thinking how epic it would be to survive the battle with a broken arm and a head injury haha.   Or winning with 20 beat up and damaged guys against a group of fresh soldiers.

This would certainly be interesting and would increase the immersion. However, I kind of doubt the devs are going to do something like that, so maybe it could be a mod. But who knows? Having troops injured instead of killed was definitely an important part of the SP game, so it might be interesting to see it somehow in the multiplayer.

Night Ninja

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Re: Weapon Durability?
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2009, 06:59:52 AM »
Its just that the impact is quite strong you would go back wards by a ton maybe add the stun animation to that? when you block hammers? from charging horse?

No, see, with proper technique and form it's quite possible to defend yourself against a full-force swing by a rather large dude. The key is to redirect, not to take the force of the blow. It doesn't matter how hard he's hitting if the majority of the energy in his strike is going nowhere.
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Wu-long

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Re: Weapon Durability?
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2009, 04:31:13 AM »
Its just that the impact is quite strong you would go back wards by a ton maybe add the stun animation to that? when you block hammers? from charging horse?

No, see, with proper technique and form it's quite possible to defend yourself against a full-force swing by a rather large dude. The key is to redirect, not to take the force of the blow. It doesn't matter how hard he's hitting if the majority of the energy in his strike is going nowhere.
We dont really have parry atm unless you do it manually but even so its a tad hard with being infantry vrs horsemen fights

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Re: Weapon Durability?
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2009, 01:52:42 PM »
I dislike the idea of breaking weapons, but if you do it, weapons should have separate stats for damage done to own weapon while attacking and damage done to own weapon while defending.

A sword would be very hard to break by parrying with it. It will get damaged quicklier if you are attacking with it yourself. Axes should break rather easily when parrying because of the wood hilt. However, the axe will almost never break by attacking with it. A lance couched from horseback should break immediately.

A sword would also have a very high resistance: a lot of damage needs to be done before the sword will actually get damaged.

But I still hate the idea, but I wouldn't hate it as much if the above is implemented. More weapon slots would also be required.

Especially for multiplayer I detest the idea. For single it is acceptable. Not fun, but acceptable.

Wu-long

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Re: Weapon Durability?
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2009, 04:10:12 AM »
I dislike the idea of breaking weapons, but if you do it, weapons should have separate stats for damage done to own weapon while attacking and damage done to own weapon while defending.

A sword would be very hard to break by parrying with it. It will get damaged quicklier if you are attacking with it yourself. Axes should break rather easily when parrying because of the wood hilt. However, the axe will almost never break by attacking with it. A lance couched from horseback should break immediately.

A sword would also have a very high resistance: a lot of damage needs to be done before the sword will actually get damaged.

But I still hate the idea, but I wouldn't hate it as much if the above is implemented. More weapon slots would also be required.

Especially for multiplayer I detest the idea. For single it is acceptable. Not fun, but acceptable.

Yea single player only