the papacy really needs a troop tree overhaul

[chantrain]

having priests clad in robes wielding christian crosses run into battle against soldiers is just ridiculous.

the papacy had some famous swiss soldiers, why not put those in?

[Cruger]

I'm not 100% sure, but wasn't the swiss mercenaries to become known in the late medieval and not in the 13th century?

[El-Diablito]

I'm not 100% sure, but wasn't the swiss mercenaries to become known in the late medieval and not in the 13th century?

The guys with the crosses are still pretty stupid you have to admit is that actually based on historic fact? because I cannot possibly believe anyone would be stupid enough to put on a monks robe grab a cross and go into battle, give the poor bastards a sword or a spear

[Cruger]

The guys with the crosses are still pretty stupid you have to admit is that actually based on historic fact? because I cannot possibly believe anyone would be stupid enough to put on a monks robe grab a cross and go into battle, give the poor bastards a sword or a spear

Well, the crosses might be stupid (*dammit, the only moddel I made myself get critisized*), anyways its a fact that priest and such were only allowed to use blunt weapons.. I read that somewhere when I had something about the Bayeux Tapestry..

[El-Diablito]

The guys with the crosses are still pretty stupid you have to admit is that actually based on historic fact? because I cannot possibly believe anyone would be stupid enough to put on a monks robe grab a cross and go into battle, give the poor bastards a sword or a spear

Well, the crosses might be stupid (*dammit, the only moddel I made myself get critisized*), anyways its a fact that priest and such were only allowed to use blunt weapons.. I read that somewhere when I had something about the Bayeux Tapestry..

I believe I read about a man of the cloth who *chose* to use a blunt weapon (feeling that merely bashing someones skull in was more kind than..cutting him in half), but I don't think they were forbidden..after all, priestly positions of high rank came to young striplings of noble families all the time, and those chaps were trained in arms, and used them with great frequency.

should be a snap to research though, people, myself included should get googling once we have time, I would do it now but my puppy is trying to destroy my last nerve atm.

[chantrain]

I'm not 100% sure, but wasn't the swiss mercenaries to become known in the late medieval and not in the 13th century?

true, but you have priests running into battles in robes in this game right now, why quibble about a mere 200 or 300 year anachronism here?

If swiss guards aren't something you want, why not give the papacy real soldiers? I mean, they had them. They didnt send priests to fight their battles for them, they sent mercenaries from the catholic factions, and italian feudal soldiers.

[Cruger]

..Don't they have real soldiers? I made up their troop-tree like I did with any else faction.. First some unbeliveable crappy peasants, then some militia like things, and then some usefull soldiers..

[chantrain]

for militia you have priests in robes, dont you see how silly that is?

why not give them some real feudal militia?

[Cruger]

Its monks!

I basicly made it like that because I got a little lost in "Arn - The Templar Knight", but as I am not affraid of admiting I can change it to some normal-militia-looking-guys if it would please you guys

[chantrain]

well i might have a better idea... since venice and genoa aren't in the game right now, i suggest giving the papacy some venetian/genoese troops.

the venetians had some excellent heavy infantry that wielded a shield and a warhammer, and genoa was known for their sailors, light troops with bows & shortswords.

[Cruger]

I am making Venice for the next version

[chantrain]

oh alright, sounds sweet.

i just wanted to complain a little about the battle priests, since i felt it to be very cartoon-y and inaccurate.

apart from that, great mod, I'm having fun with it. cant wait for the next version, looking forward to the extra factions.

[blowcrapup]

One possibility is that you could give them a basic lower troop tree e.g.

              > Pilgrim Archer
Pilgrim
              > Pilgrim Guard

Then rather than giving them their own upper levels give them random mid level troops from other factions. This would represent the trained soldiers of other countries who were very religious and decided to go and fight under the Pope. So a full tree could be.

                                  >Pious English Longbowmen
           > Pilgrim Archer
                                 > Pious French Crossbowmen
Pilgrim
                                 > Pious Danish Huscarl
           > Pilgrim Guard
                                 > Pious Imperial Horseman

With maybe two more units at the end of that.

[El-Diablito]

I love the pope guys, they're stupifyingly easy to beat up, Rome isn't too tough to conquer etc etc.

Being a realist though, I have to admit I only like them because they're so fiercly under powered.

As a little addendum though, your cross is very nice, but I think i'd rather have it on display in my library than to use it in mortal combat

Btw, will we see an update to kingdom management in the next version? 16 factions is enough for a little while, kingdom and game mechanics need tweaking though, better income from fiefs, tourny betting etc etc.

[chantrain]

I like the idea of a priest/monk with an oversized cross going into battle with the soldiers to keep their morale high, however they should not act as soldiers as you currently have them.

in real life, priests did accompany soldiers into battles to bless them beforehand and keep up their morale, but they didnt participate in the fighting. they stayed behind the army.

maybe you can make it so the the AI trains the monk guys very rarely, and have them give a big boost to papal armies' morale when a monk is present.