NNY (Gameplay mod): Sources released | Mod is on hiatus

[Geoffrey Ashe]

Can I input this in Dukes and Mercenaries?

Tell does this have a feature to have lords when you have your own kingdom? that is really missing in native, recruiting lords. I think age of machinery has this feature but I don't like their arty.

To make it clear one more time: I want to release the source (I don't know when, next weekend sounds nice, but no promise) till I am sure there are no problems with balancing or bugs or something.

And you can't recruit any lords yet. How does age of machinery do it? I heard that you get a lord each time you capture a castle?

Have you got any idea to balance it?

The patrols could be limited - as you say - and they could be more expensive - and have a maximum size.
Perhaps double the amount of troop costs to troops in patrols.
A fun feature could be desertion: On rare occasions a patrol could be bribed to switch sides (not sure how though). (Yes, I've played Medieval II  )
Introducing the 'old' foragers, scouts etc. would be fun (it's being done in 'The Return of Zendar' mod).

Desertion sounds cool.
And I know that Chel has done the reintroducing of the parties in an earlier M&B version, but I can't remember if he released the source.

About more ways to boost morale:
I can only think of the possibility to hold feasts at castles and towns to increase morale (it could just be an option in castle/town menu when you own it).

This isn't very different to the ale. But perhaps feasting can increase relation with the town or something. Nice idea.

You should think of a name for the mod, perhaps make a poll; it'd be fun 

Too be honest I already got one in my mind.I want to call it LIM - Lordly Interaction Mod.
It's just that, that it doesn't make much sense yet and I don't want to get any hopes up.
Especially as I can't and won't make any promises.

You can still make suggestions for a name if you like though.

[kavien]

very good, simple gameplay changes like this can be fun for far longer than any amount of new items.
I had about 10 patrols of bandits (totaling near a thousand) and I conquered all of calradia with them.
Patrols are the best thing in the world, now I can have armies placed at key locations (mountain passes, bridges ect...), I like the tavern recruiting, it brings back all the nostalgia. the ale in tavern is a great idea as well, there is a bug with the tavern recruited units: they don't upgrade into other units, or is it just a native error?

[sergeant113]

Awesome mod! I love the creating-patrol-parties feature. My suggesstion is to allow other lords the same advantage, let them creat patrol parties too. It'll be total chaos......

[Sir Garon]

Questions...

1. Is this mod compatible with 1.003?


2. Can you have companions like Rolf and Matheld lead their own parties? That is something I'd like to see...Train them up to be Lords and Ladies....and then be able to award fiefs to them.

[Geoffrey Ashe]

very good, simple gameplay changes like this can be fun for far longer than any amount of new items.
I had about 10 patrols of bandits (totaling near a thousand) and I conquered all of calradia with them.

I am glad you like it but wow, Adorno was definitely correct about the imbalance.
I am sorry to tell you, but I am currently balancing them. But the way I am doing this there should be an easy way to get around (two or so values), so you can have your monster parties again.

Patrols are the best thing in the world, now I can have armies placed at key locations (mountain passes, bridges ect...), I like the tavern recruiting, it brings back all the nostalgia. the ale in tavern is a great idea as well, there is a bug with the tavern recruited units: they don't upgrade into other units, or is it just a native error?

I remember that the townsmen didn't want to upgrade at first but I thought I fixed it. I'll look into it. What about the refugees and the manhunters?

Awesome mod! I love the creating-patrol-parties feature. My suggesstion is to allow other lords the same advantage, let them creat patrol parties too. It'll be total chaos......

I figure reactivating the old parties will do. (It's definitely on my list)

Questions...

1. Is this mod compatible with 1.003?


2. Can you have companions like Rolf and Matheld lead their own parties? That is something I'd like to see...Train them up to be Lords and Ladies....and then be able to award fiefs to them.

1. It's for 1.010/1.011.

2. No, maybe in the future.

[Adorno]

I had about 10 patrols of bandits (totaling near a thousand) and I conquered all of calradia with them.

Not that I'm overly surprised. You can literally create armies larger than the combined forces of all your enemies.

Patrols are the best thing in the world, now I can have armies placed at key locations (mountain passes, bridges etc...)

It's really an extraordinary addition to tactics in the game. It only needs to be balanced.
Introducing large warparties, scouts, foragers etc. and making the patrols expensive (and not too big) would be good.
It's just important that these foragers, scouts etc. only attack you if you are allied to a faction.
Otherwise the beginning of the game could be too hard: constantly being attacked by all these parties...

@ Geoffrey:
Can you make changes to the map? I know it's troublesome, but adding more bridges and mountain passes would expand the tactical elements.
Especially if the AI could use it too; making warparties, scouts etc. spawn/patrol at these strategic places on the map.

2. Can you have companions like Rolf and Matheld lead their own parties? That is something I'd like to see...Train them up to be Lords and Ladies....and then be able to award fiefs to them.

No, maybe in the future.

In 0.903 you could 'disband' NPC's and give them troops, but you couldn't order them to anything. It would be fun to add that to the patrol feature.
Especially if they could get captured. I would go through hell and back to retrieve a valuable imprisoned NPC 

This is really a great mod 

EDIT: Recruited a townsman, a refugee and a manhunter from a tavern, and they all upgraded by training.
So I'm not getting that error. Really nice to have the swordsisters and manhunters back in large numbers 

[Sir Garon]

2. Can you have companions like Rolf and Matheld lead their own parties? That is something I'd like to see...Train them up to be Lords and Ladies....and then be able to award fiefs to them.

2. No, maybe in the future.

Rats!

That's all I'm looking for is the ability to do that. To me that would take the game to another level. It sounds like you're on the right track with this mod. I hope someone can incorporate the element I mentioned above into the game.

[vonmistont]

Just registered to reply here.

First of all thanks for your mod.

Somehow all the other mods among some great features hide some unbearable too. Like the Age of Machinery, with really great Kingdom features and really stupid... machines. Siege machines that cannot be used in siege (except few castles) but are used in battle? (sic)

Well my point is that your mod seems to have really huge potential and neither already implemented features nor your plans seem to have any flaws.

If i may suggest few things that would be:
Implementing more kingdom menagement if possible. As to exact features that would be recruiting lords of course (but not for free to make it too easy, lets say some cash + at least castle fief for each lord or he won't join).
I don't know if tax level from fiefs is adjustable but if it is then maybe you could change them too (low taxes would increase your  popularity in towns/villages and make them more prosperous over time and vice versa).
And some features already done in:
Realm of Freedom http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,47321.0.html like:
"When you attain your independence, there will be some new functions in the “castle/town manage" menu:
   #Can change banner when in your castle/towns.
   #Can take tax in any fiefs of your faction. In towns owned by your fellow lord you can take 30% from the town’s tax income, the owner of this town will get the rest 70%.
   #You have right to distribute the new captured town/castle to your vassal."
and in Everyone Can Be The Leader http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,46178.0.html like:
"4. After rebelling, you can order your NPCs out into the world map and combine forces later on. NPCs have the same AI as lords on the world map. However, in battle they will listen to you.*** (...)
5. All rebels can be recruited by the player after rebelling.
(...)
7. All cities and castles will recruit from their prisoners every 24 hours. Desertion rate is 20%."

And to make the whole game have purpose (other than wipping everything on the map, which is quite easy) the easiest and already made thousand times in thousand games way to do that is to add a THREAT. Let's say another Khegrit-like invasion of wild, powerfull tribes through the mountains. Huge, and i mean really really (really) huge armies that come after some time, so that player should hurry and gather as much strength as he can till the dead line... AI kingdoms (if they still exist) should fall very fast to this new threat and the player alone, even rulling whole Caladria should have problems too (well in my opinion the difficulty level is set all right only when it's TOO high ).

Anyway, i know that this wishes might be too much, but worth a try i think, maybe you could use some of them.

Good luck.

EDIT:
***Made it bold for Sir Garon. Don't give up hpe

[Geoffrey Ashe]

Patrols are the best thing in the world, now I can have armies placed at key locations (mountain passes, bridges etc...)

It's really an extraordinary addition to tactics in the game. It only needs to be balanced.
Introducing large warparties, scouts, foragers etc. and making the patrols expensive (and not too big) would be good.
It's just important that these foragers, scouts etc. only attack you if you are allied to a faction.
Otherwise the beginning of the game could be too hard: constantly being attacked by all these parties...

I have coded a limit of the number of patrols with the formula: leadership skill + (renown/250) + every castle or town you own.
That would be for the last game I have played: 4+4+2 = 10 parties. Suggestions  are welcome and I can ditch this too if it doesn't make much sense. Especially as money should be the limiting factor in my opinion.
Your party limit / 3 (and no prisoner) seems to be a good party size for the patrols. (But it requires a work around)
And a Price factor of 150%.

The patrols belong to the player_faction, I assume that they got the same relations to the other factions like you do.

@ Geoffrey:
Can you make changes to the map? I know it's troublesome, but adding more bridges and mountain passes would expand the tactical elements.
Especially if the AI could use it too; making warparties, scouts etc. spawn/patrol at these strategic places on the map.

I'd prefer to stick with the coding. I don't mind if anyone wants to add any changes though.

2. Can you have companions like Rolf and Matheld lead their own parties? That is something I'd like to see...Train them up to be Lords and Ladies....and then be able to award fiefs to them.

No, maybe in the future.

In 0.903 you could 'disband' NPC's and give them troops, but you couldn't order them to anything. It would be fun to add that to the patrol feature.
Especially if they could get captured. I would go through hell and back to retrieve a valuable imprisoned NPC 

Good point. That should be easy, but I don't know how game reacts after the defeat of a companion.

This is really a great mod 

EDIT: Recruited a townsman, a refugee and a manhunter from a tavern, and they all upgraded by training.
So I'm not getting that error. Really nice to have the swordsisters and manhunters back in large numbers 

Good to know.

Just registered to reply here.

First of all thanks for your mod.

Somehow all the other mods among some great features hide some unbearable too. Like the Age of Machinery, with really great Kingdom features and really stupid... machines. Siege machines that cannot be used in siege (except few castles) but are used in battle? (sic)

Well my point is that your mod seems to have really huge potential and neither already implemented features nor your plans seem to have any flaws.

If i may suggest few things that would be:
Implementing more kingdom menagement if possible. As to exact features that would be recruiting lords of course (but not for free to make it too easy, lets say some cash + at least castle fief for each lord or he won't join).
I don't know if tax level from fiefs is adjustable but if it is then maybe you could change them too (low taxes would increase your  popularity in towns/villages and make them more prosperous over time and vice versa).
And some features already done in:
Realm of Freedom http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,47321.0.html like:
"When you attain your independence, there will be some new functions in the “castle/town manage" menu:
   #Can change banner when in your castle/towns.
   #Can take tax in any fiefs of your faction. In towns owned by your fellow lord you can take 30% from the town’s tax income, the owner of this town will get the rest 70%.
   #You have right to distribute the new captured town/castle to your vassal."
and in Everyone Can Be The Leader http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,46178.0.html like:
"4. After rebelling, you can order your NPCs out into the world map and combine forces later on. NPCs have the same AI as lords on the world map. However, in battle they will listen to you.*** (...)
5. All rebels can be recruited by the player after rebelling.
(...)
7. All cities and castles will recruit from their prisoners every 24 hours. Desertion rate is 20%."

And to make the whole game have purpose (other than wipping everything on the map, which is quite easy) the easiest and already made thousand times in thousand games way to do that is to add a THREAT. Let's say another Khegrit-like invasion of wild, powerfull tribes through the mountains. Huge, and i mean really really (really) huge armies that come after some time, so that player should hurry and gather as much strength as he can till the dead line... AI kingdoms (if they still exist) should fall very fast to this new threat and the player alone, even rulling whole Caladria should have problems too (well in my opinion the difficulty level is set all right only when it's TOO high ).

Anyway, i know that this wishes might be too much, but worth a try i think, maybe you could use some of them.

Good luck.

EDIT:
***Made it bold for Sir Garon. Don't give up hpe

Splitting up the quotes gets confusing so pardon me if I don't do it with your post.

@The lords joining you
You shouldn't be able to recruit the honorable ones atleast (bound to oath). And it should only work if they haven't got a fief yet. Your suggestion wouldn't be too imbalancing even, and the companions would simply become captains of warbands. (the lords wouldn't like it if someone without noble blood would become your vassal I guess, but then you are a bandit king anyway)

@taxes
I figure this should work out

@the 2 mods
If I can get the source or so.

@threat
That's really a big wish.

There might something work out, but probably way later, sorry. You could refine the ideas of the lords joining you and threat though.

You guys are great but you start to overburden me
Keep it coming.

[Wulwei]

verry cool mod!
also cool would be an option to send an messenger to the various parties to call them back or give them new tasks, like the marshals call you to themself. so you can stay behind the save walls of your castle and give orders to your "armys" .

[vonmistont]

@threat
That's really a big wish.

(...) You could refine the ideas of the lords joining you and threat though.

Heh yeah, quite big one. But could add sense for a late phase of the game and aim for the whole one. And I believe it's really not too hard to be done.

As to refining it. Let's see:

This threat should be new faction (or few allied factions to enhance their aggressive AI more on that AI below). Not present on the map at the beginning of the game.
Then after predefined amount of time passed this faction's armies are spawned. The quantity of this faction forces should be greater than quantity of all the others faction's forces taken together (it means either more lords or better lords, and possibly high tier of troops).
The AI of this new armies should be very aggressive. They should be at constant war campaign. And of course in permanent state of war with everyone else. They could be destructive: i.e. After capturing a castle or town they should burn it (easy to be done, when you visit such place you will just have no other options than leave, as in looted villages). Actually such behavior would be very realistic (think about Arian invasion i.e.). But they could just take them as a normal factions, it's not that important.
The player should be aware of the threat and his aim would be preparing world for this invasion (by conquering as much as he can, uniting Caladria - That's why he needs ability to recruit lords not only those dishonourable but also honourable ones, as he does it for the just cause - but requirement for those lords to not to have fiefs is fair and balancing).
With Your mod player is much more powerfull (with all this patrols). Plus recruited lords, etc. The threat I'm talking about will balance this strengthening of the player.

I did mods for other games, none for MnB though so I'm not sure if spawning newfaction's armies in the middle of game is possible. But intuitionaly i think it should be (if everything could only be spawned at the game start it would be serious design flaw of the game).

So summing up implementing this idea means:
1) Creating New faction with new troop tree (but from existing items, or if we want new fancy nation there are plenty of resources in other mods, this new faction could also be so popular fantasy-undead) - Completely and easy doable.
2) Adding trigger to spawn this faction's armies at certain moment. - Should be doable. And if it is then it would be easy.
3) AI for this faction would be constant campaign. - If there is already campaign AI (and i also believe i saw mod that even enhances that AI) making it permanent for one, or more allied factions should be easy (i don't know if one faction can have two or more "armies" consisting of few lords at war campaign that's why I'm talking about few factions but i believe it's possible with just one).

I think this would nicely synergize with your mod's feature of patrols, that make player powerful and with the kingdom management from Age of Machinery or similar (if you decide to implement it).

Regards

[Yongilman]

Well, I must admit that I really like this mod so far. Especially since it enhances the game without taking anything away.

If I could be so bold as to make a suggestion: today I saw on the suggestion board the idea for giving parties names. I think this would be a wonderful addition to your mod. Not only the ability to make patrols, but the ability to name them as well. This way you can actually have a scouting party named as a scouting party.

I would think that the best way to add this dynamic would be to add a line in the conversation menu where you tell them to change the name of their party, then you type in the new name.
---

As far as other suggestions go: I really think ten patrols is a bit much, especially if they are all following you at a time. I would just limit the patrol number to half of one's leadership score.

This way a patrol is more of a commodity, and not something that can easily break the game. I also like the idea of maximizing the patrol size to 1/3 of your own army size, and increasing their wages. This gives me a great way of keeping my lands bandit free.

Maybe it is just me, but I hate seeing bandits and deserters running around my properties. I would certainly use some patrols to keep my lands safe.

OR, if you want a high number of patrols, then maybe you should limit the amount that can follow the player at any given time. This could be broken though, a user would just have to leap-frog their army of patrols (take some and move them, then take the next group and move them.) *this was the edit*
---

Also, if it is at all possible, it would be great if a player could hire a caravan. Not escort one, but actually pay for one to go between one of their villages/castles/cities and other cities. The in game mechanic would be to increase the players popularity with the city in question, and to raise the cities prosperity. The caravan would just spawn from the city, travel around a while, travel back, and then the prosperity would increase by a set amount (maybe 2% per city visited by the caravan.)

To add this, I would make it an option when talking to a guild master or a tavern keeper. It would of course not be cheap, but I think it would add a bit of exotic flavor. Especially if you got a cut of the profit from the caravan.

[FleshyStarfish]

How about calling this mod Kingdom Creation or Kingdom Expansion or even Kingdom Management.

FS

[Geoffrey Ashe]

So summing up implementing this idea means:
1) Creating New faction with new troop tree (but from existing items, or if we want new fancy nation there are plenty of resources in other mods, this new faction could also be so popular fantasy-undead) - Completely and easy doable.
2) Adding trigger to spawn this faction's armies at certain moment. - Should be doable. And if it is then it would be easy.
3) AI for this faction would be constant campaign. - If there is already campaign AI (and i also believe i saw mod that even enhances that AI) making it permanent for one, or more allied factions should be easy (i don't know if one faction can have two or more "armies" consisting of few lords at war campaign that's why I'm talking about few factions but i believe it's possible with just one).

I think this would nicely synergize with your mod's feature of patrols, that make player powerful and with the kingdom management from Age of Machinery or similar (if you decide to implement it).

Regards

1. I haven't exactly got time to design a new faction, but I would prefer to keep fantasy out of it.
2. Need to look into the spawning first
3. Same as 2, I didn't look much in the lord ai yet.

Sounds good though.

If I could be so bold as to make a suggestion: today I saw on the suggestion board the idea for giving parties names. I think this would be a wonderful addition to your mod. Not only the ability to make patrols, but the ability to name them as well. This way you can actually have a scouting party named as a scouting party.

I would think that the best way to add this dynamic would be to add a line in the conversation menu where you tell them to change the name of their party, then you type in the new name.

I don't know if I can even make an interface for typing stuff in, but there could be dialog deciding for the names of scouts, warbands and such.

As far as other suggestions go: I really think ten patrols is a bit much, especially if they are all following you at a time. I would just limit the patrol number to half of one's leadership score.

This way a patrol is more of a commodity, and not something that can easily break the game. I also like the idea of maximizing the patrol size to 1/3 of your own army size, and increasing their wages. This gives me a great way of keeping my lands bandit free.

Maybe it is just me, but I hate seeing bandits and deserters running around my properties. I would certainly use some patrols to keep my lands safe.

OR, if you want a high number of patrols, then maybe you should limit the amount that can follow the player at any given time. This could be broken though, a user would just have to leap-frog their army of patrols (take some and move them, then take the next group and move them.) *this was the edit*

Money should be the main deciding factor so you have to weigh out how many patrols of which strength to use. But yes I see the problem with the following.

Also, if it is at all possible, it would be great if a player could hire a caravan. Not escort one, but actually pay for one to go between one of their villages/castles/cities and other cities. The in game mechanic would be to increase the players popularity with the city in question, and to raise the cities prosperity. The caravan would just spawn from the city, travel around a while, travel back, and then the prosperity would increase by a set amount (maybe 2% per city visited by the caravan.)

To add this, I would make it an option when talking to a guild master or a tavern keeper. It would of course not be cheap, but I think it would add a bit of exotic flavor. Especially if you got a cut of the profit from the caravan.

Sounds interesting, but I don't know how much sense that makes. I mean, the caravans want to gain money and that hardly works with a backwater village. Also the villagers go to the town to trade and increase prosperity already.

Perhaps if you bought supplies your peasants need like a different way to solve the wheat and cattle quests and the caravan would leave the town to make the delivery or something.

How about calling this mod Kingdom Creation or Kingdom Expansion or even Kingdom Management.

FS

This isn't exactly the direction I wanted to go.


I am looking forward to release the source of the stuff I currently got, even if it means that this mod will tank.

[Adorno]

I like the idea of names to the patrols. Hope you will consider (work on) that.

Someone might have mentioned this, but what about a:
Patrol interface: like an overview or list of your patrols (and perhaps also what they are ordered to do). And from there you could give them new orders - with imaginary dispatches.
It could be in the 'camp' menu or something. That way you could feel like a warlord, controlling your Minions from the castle 
But it's probably pretty hard to do, I imagine. Just a thought...