Illustration of a Hussite Wagon Fortress, 1437

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Druzhina

Druzhina

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Old Guard
 
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http://****-k.narod.ru/Historical_Arts/Hussites/Hussites_04.jpg
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16hussite1%20%287%29.jpg

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007.jpg

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Nase_vojsko_Vojenske_dejiny_Ceskoslovenska_1_dil.jpg
 
matmohair1 said:
http://****-k.narod.ru/Historical_Arts/Hussites/Hussites_04.jpg

007.jpg
Click to expand...

Wagons had not pivotable front axle. Also, the wheels were most likely chained together when not on the march. And I am yet to understand the fetish with gaps between individual wagons on most modern pictures.
 
BenKenobi said:
matmohair1 said:
http://****-k.narod.ru/Historical_Arts/Hussites/Hussites_04.jpg

007.jpg
Click to expand...

Wagons had not pivotable front axle. Also, the wheels were most likely chained together when not on the march. And I am yet to understand the fetish with gaps between individual wagons on most modern pictures.
Click to expand...

I'm not excusing any modern depictions, but, Ian  Heath writes that there was a "movable wooden mantlet that was used to fill the gaps between wagons when they were drawn up in laager".  Without gaps you would need many more wagons to make the same size laager.  Is your main objection that these gaps in modern illustrations aren't covered by mantlets and/or chains and have artillery pieces in the open?

I would be interested in references about these wagons not having a pivotable front axle.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers
 
Druzhina said:
I would be interested in references about these wagons not having a pivotable front axle.
Click to expand...

It is one of the things that hussitologists (and there is a lot of them over here in CZE) stress quite heavily. That pivotable axle is first introduced at the end of 15th century, but still not on ordinary agricultural wagons. Basically, there are no historical illustrations of wagons with pivotable axle.

With hussites, there is a problem that noone really knows how they really fought. And in Czech historiography there was a trend to think of a best way to fight with wagons and think of it as a truth (such as this composition of wagenburg) that is really ingenious and everything, but unfortunately it is different to what we see on historical illustrations (well, this particular composition of wagenburg at least should be mentioned in military code of knight von Eybe from the late 15th century).

About the gaps - if you look at historical illustrations, they are composed in a way that they almost touch.
 
BenKenobi said:
Druzhina said:
I would be interested in references about these wagons not having a pivotable front axle.
Click to expand...

It is one of the things that hussitologists (and there is a lot of them over here in CZE) stress quite heavily. That pivotable axle is first introduced at the end of 15th century, but still not on ordinary agricultural wagons. Basically, there are no historical illustrations of wagons with pivotable axle.

With hussites, there is a problem that noone really knows how they really fought. And in Czech historiography there was a trend to think of a best way to fight with wagons and think of it as a truth (such as this composition of wagenburg) that is really ingenious and everything, but unfortunately it is different to what we see on historical illustrations (well, this particular composition of wagenburg at least should be mentioned in military code of knight von Eybe from the late 15th century).

About the gaps - if you look at historical illustrations, they are composed in a way that they almost touch.
Click to expand...

Thanks BenKenobi,

Besides Johannes Hartlieb's Kriegsbuch c.1437, what other historical illustrations of Hussite (rather than German or Polish) wagenburgs or war-wagons are there?

Druzhina
15th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers
 
e27 said:
Do the wooden walls on those wagons actually block anything?  Wouldn't bullets go right through those?
Click to expand...
Well, they can block the cavalry and foot soldiers without firearms effectively. Firearms weren't used commonly until 16th century.
 
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