Author Topic: Troop Formations!  (Read 93248 times)

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Lost_Brazilian

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Troop Formations!
« on: July 30, 2005, 04:37:20 AM »
I know i'm probably the 4357345734534th guy to talk about it , but it'd be great to make those stupid peasants or ( better yet) those idiotic caravan guards get in formations...
I'm not asking for anything complex... Just things like squares, circles , triangles and stuff.
I know it's a major pain to make those codings and stuff but many would be glad to see SCs of a HUGE army in formation... damn that would be freaking nice... I just imagine rushing with knights in arrow( triangle) formation breaking enemies lines with lances....
OOOOOOOOOH!
Well, if anyone agrees with that idea just speak up!
PS: Something like Use archery weapons would be nice too( those stupid watchman never remember their CB when i need most  :P )
Cya
I know those peasants are aliens disguised as regular ppl...  "We are just simple farmers..." my *ss they are trying to take over Calradia!  :lol:

100 bottles of bear on the wall, 100 bottles of beaaaaaaaar... WOOT? :lol:

Troop Formations!
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2005, 06:17:22 AM »
You can , well not really , but kinda make square formation by doing follow me. Since they tend to all squish in around you , you can overwhelm calvalry doing that to.
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jackyjkchan

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Troop Formations!
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2005, 10:56:25 AM »
very nice,
i would love to have new formatoins.

Sir Saladin

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Troop Formations!
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2005, 03:24:58 PM »
You are supposed to use the "scream at stupid suicidal men" button and then start whacking them with the flat side of your sword. Just making yet another bad joke there is nothing like that in the game.

BobG

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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2005, 10:43:57 PM »
I'm not sure if most moving formations would survive the terrain they'd have to move through.  Part of the formation might have a hill to climb, or they might get close to the edge of a cliff.  Still, it would be nice.

Personally, I just want to be able to tell my archers to form a line so they're ready when the enemy appears.

Lost_Brazilian

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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2005, 03:31:04 AM »
It would be cool to make the archers shoot the enemy when in range instead of just charging them in the first sight even if you keep screaming HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD!
Lol
Just waiting for the troop orders upgrade to see if this kind of event stop happening =D
I know those peasants are aliens disguised as regular ppl...  "We are just simple farmers..." my *ss they are trying to take over Calradia!  :lol:

100 bottles of bear on the wall, 100 bottles of beaaaaaaaar... WOOT? :lol:

Waylander918

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Troop Formations!
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2005, 03:55:42 AM »
I would advise putting these basic formations in:

Wedge - Cavalry rushing

Line - Infantry go into a single or double line

Spread - For cavalry or infantry, when charging against missile units, spread formation would be useful so they arent as effective.

These are formations in Rome Total War (they didnt make the formation [der] idea), and would be nice in this game.

catsoup

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Troop Formations!
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2005, 10:39:56 AM »
I don't think formations would be so good, as it would kill the early medieval feeling.
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Scenix

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Troop Formations!
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2005, 01:14:13 PM »
Formations have been around a looooooong time, matey.

It would be harder to kill off infantry when on horseback, which means I'd support it...it'd force you to sweep around the sides...and cut them down that way!

I think (I may not be right) that polearm equipped cavalry would be more effective in line formation...but only against light infantry (no polearms)

or maybe like the greek phalanx...substancially more mobile...but then you'd probably kill off more of your own men when turning (because of the difficulty in manueovres)
Small though it is, the human brain can be quite effective when used properly.

BreadLust

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« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2005, 07:45:04 AM »
Formations would definitely be a nice touch, but as it stands I don't think the battles are large enough to make them really relevant. In a war, would you ever have seen a wedge formation of 10-12 cavalry? No, you'd be talking hundreds.

Perhaps make the battles a bit larger, and add the ability to control different unit types and give more complex commands. But honestly, this game has to get finished someday....

Kniggit

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Troop Formations!
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2005, 08:44:30 AM »
Yes formations are a MUST

Im sick of having my arhcers in a clump, and the first 7 kills are my own guys........
 I would like a line formation, when ive got my Swad Sharpies on a hill, i want to be able to shout "LINE FORMATION"

say when im fighting someone like sea radiers or swad deserters, i would like a command to "spread out" so its harder to hit them with axes/javelins/bolts

i would also like a command to "take cover" in whick they spread out and hide behide trees, hill and rocks, but for this to be cool we would need to be able to crouch

i dont really see a need for columns and whatnot, no need to be RTW.....

oh, and i would like to have a cammond to "GET THE **** OUTTA MY WAY" im sick of trying to get to a hill with my morinic men backin up.....

Ian

Scenix

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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2005, 12:42:37 PM »
Mind you, I say formations have been around for a long time, I get the impression that during the medieval age it WAS just a disorganised rabble - at least among the lower orders.

Bowmen/Archers tended to be from peasant stock and I think the general idea among the gentry was that they (the peasants) didn't have the intelligence or strength of mind to stand in formation...much like General Kitchener of the 'honest Tommy' in the First World War.

Most of my army are not infantry nor ranged units, but horsemen - they seem to last much longer - just wheel in...and cut them to pieces! I think four or so, might be my current record for one straight run! But then it would be <possibly> much harder if they were in formation.
Small though it is, the human brain can be quite effective when used properly.

Kamamura

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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2005, 01:10:44 PM »
I agree. Early medieval era was characteristic by lack of tactic whatsoever in battles. The troops were disorganized, basically, each knight arrived on the battle with his group of vassals and conscripted infantry (often peasants) as he liked. The knights did not want to recognize a supreme commander, and though individually often very brave, their tactical prowess was negligible. It can be said that the French lost many crucial battles in the One Hundred Years War (Creche, Azincourt), where a group of well organized archers defeated vastly superior number of French knights (though their tactic was based on passive defense of advantageous position).

But first examples of advanced battle tactics started to appear only in the late medieval / early rennaisance era. Czech hussite insurgents used wagons for both defense (vozova hradba) and offense (wagons loaded with stones to break enemy ranks), also introduced first crude firearms and artillery, as well as modified peasant tools (war flail) to conquer their Catholic enemies. The first footmen that were able to offensively fight against cavalry were Swiss pikemen.

Eastern nations, on the other hand, were much more disciplined and often used advanced tactics in battle. Mongol hordes were able to attack in waves, flank, feint retreats and stay incredibly mobile during long campaigns, and that allowed them to conquer more than one half of Europe. Saladin's troops that faced the crusaders also applied similar tactics to stand a chance against their better armored foes.

All in all, I think that detailed formation control would be inappropriate for the game of this era. The commander of this time could at best chose the initial formation of troops (if he had time) and then give the order to charge - and hope for the best.

Lost_Brazilian

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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2005, 09:34:21 PM »
Probably you two got me wrong...
I was asking for simple formations like lines, rectangles, circles and triangles... Those simple formations were always used from Greek Hoplites ,Saracen Cavalry charges and even Alexander the Great used...
Those are not fancy formations for specific battles, they were used generally in most battles. The formations depended more on the commanders than on the soldiers... I would guess it would give some meaning to tactics skill if it enabled new formations( who cares about advantage points anyways =P ).
I guess poorly organized troops were due to poor experienced or trained commanders who ignored the great advantages of formations in combat.
The battles were mostly disorganized because most knights were nobles and were taught how to fight but not how to command... They were just warriors ... Many mercenary units were "unbeateable" because their leader had experience in battles and knew how useful men could be arranged to achieve certain purposes.
In Europe, horses were too expensive ,that's why mostly knights used them. Most battles had a handful of horseman,and bunches of footmen and archers. Battles were brutal and caotic, in the heat of battle noone could differ friend from foe, they only kept bashing what was ahead, THAT was the reason of the simple formations.
Well, i think i said enough.
Good tactics = more knowledge = more formations or acess to formations!
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOkay!
PS: I think i told but i would like this AFTER the better troops AI update so horsemen or any kind of fighters in the way would not be a problem =D
I know those peasants are aliens disguised as regular ppl...  "We are just simple farmers..." my *ss they are trying to take over Calradia!  :lol:

100 bottles of bear on the wall, 100 bottles of beaaaaaaaar... WOOT? :lol:

Worbah

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Troop Formations!
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2005, 10:08:10 PM »
I'd like to see a 'tactics' button when in the world map. You could basically give instructions for your soldiers, so that do they by default follow you, seek the enemy, etc. And whether they charge the enemy when they get near (as they do now) eventhough you told them to stand still, or wait until they are a swords length away. Actually it would kick ass if you could define the distance that your guys actually hold position before they go completely apeshit. You know, simple behavior changes, like in Fallout 2. The feature could be incredible hard to code into the game, so I won't lose any sleep over it.
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