Author Topic: A long existing upgrade flaw!  (Read 12869 times)

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Luthius

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2007, 12:50:23 PM »
Maybe the way it is now is not perfect, but it works.

I have to agree with that! By the way, which bit(s) don't you like. I understand the idea of acting like a merc yourself is unnecessary, hence i stopped myself. I think the other ideas would add to gameplay though, especially the knighting your troops one. The other is a bit complex, but i feel it would add some balance and an extra dimension to an army structure, if a little peculiar in action (realism may be an issue, not sure how mercs of old worked)

Astarsis

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2007, 04:40:03 PM »
Whenever your troops upgrade, they receive a lot of new good and costly items. How where they able to buy them? I mean, imagine knights for example, whenever they 'evolve' we have to pay a small price for the process. But the price should be much higher, it should be the medium cost of all their items minus the cost of their previous stuff that they would sell to help raise cash. Hipotecticaly of course.

So, my point is, shouldn't the player the obligated to pay the all expences of the upgrade?, say... 6000 8000 denars for knight? maybe more...
It souds scary, but it would make us value our best troops more. Plus, it would help ending the tendency that many of us have to raise top tier troops and large soms of money in a short period of time, thus making the game boring.
Of course, if we joined a faction, the upgrading price could be cut in half due to the influence of the kingdoms' treasury.

The overal idea is to make the game look more realisticaly chalenging.
Discuss.


(ps- I dont think this should be moved to the privy counsil, but you guys do what you think its best.)

I agree.

Not only money. For high end troops, steel was a rare comodity. Iron and coal (which was often used) were relatively common.

But the rare ingredients making up high grade steel were not

Make me wonder if &B shouldn't have some ressource production tied in into the economy system

Makes protecting key caravans a lot more important.

The player would spend more time deciding between protecting his caravans or raiding others.

If productions facilities get hurt everyone get hit
(err can't raid iron caravan if no iron get mined)

Battle for Scicily had a nice abstrat way to do it by landing the knights. But I think even tier 3 and tier 4 uits need to be restricted in numbers

tier 2 are a non issues, they got minimal equipment and basic training, they're just militia

It sounds like an average to OK idea, only there's no way a set of plate costs 6-8K. If you're talking normal equipment (no modifiers) then even a swadian knight is only looking at 2K maximum.

For it to be worth considering you'd have to make troops upgrade a lot faster than they do now so your money would at least go towards something. Otherwise, you could just wait for them to upgrade the normal way, through looting off corpses.

Another thing you have to take into account is that, sure right now you have tons of excess cash, but would you have so much success if your knights all cost 7K? Would you be able to do the things that get you money if your troops were shite? I think what you're suggesting wouldn't balance out in the long term with new players needing ridiculous amounts of playtime to get even a basic corps of troops together.

I don't think he mean faster

He mean an ADDITIONAL requirement based on money

You need both xp AND money

As it is now, the troops get most of the equipment from the battlefield; they use it or sell it and buy other equipment. The other way to organize it would be that you got all the loot, sell it and then pay for your soldier’s equipment, this would be more work for you selling the items and you would use more inventory slots, the bonus is that you would get more items for yourself and heroes.
One other way might be that you had to pay something to upgrade troops to the higher levels or to get them mounted. 

So fighting river pirates they found a charger... nice try  :mrgreen:
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 04:43:53 PM by Astarsis »

Great Warrior

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2007, 05:40:46 PM »
Seems to me like you guys are trying to make this game a lot more complex and confusing for new players. And if you got your way it would add a ton of micro management. I've seen many games that have too much micro-management and it's just too much crap to do and not enough fun.

Are you saying that the only skill you possess is "ownage with teh rhodoks"?
His "Life" attribute is 4.

Tankai

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2007, 09:07:00 PM »
The general idea is to make it harder for the player to get the best troops.

Great Warrior

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2007, 12:48:07 AM »
If thats the general ides there are a lot of different ways you can go about doing that. Simplest way is to make them a little bit weaker compared to faction troops and problem solved.

Are you saying that the only skill you possess is "ownage with teh rhodoks"?
His "Life" attribute is 4.

Haqiq

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2007, 08:11:34 AM »
Well just hope the 8k money would be burned when the unit die in battle. Maybe if an difficulty level is set like 'Realistic' then this idea would be nice.
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Catgoth

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2007, 04:47:58 PM »
Well, not necessarily burned. He's still wearing his equipment, right? And probably still carrying his pay. That's probably all salvagable.

Luizinho

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2007, 11:12:14 PM »
i would like to see "army ranks" in the game...we have srgt in game, but it's weird cause you can have a whole party made of srgts, how about proportional number of ranked units.

like...

max of 10% of srgts in your party
max of 10% of knights ....
max of 3% of nobles....
max of 5% of chief archers (or whatever high ranked unit)



anyway...sorry for my bad english
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Toxicity

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #53 on: November 10, 2007, 11:36:54 AM »
i would like to see "army ranks" in the game...we have srgt in game, but it's weird cause you can have a whole party made of srgts, how about proportional number of ranked units.

like...

max of 10% of srgts in your party
max of 10% of knights ....
max of 3% of nobles....
max of 5% of chief archers (or whatever high ranked unit)



anyway...sorry for my bad english
Sergeant-at-arms are like a middle-class professional soldier, not like the modern military rank. IIRC, sergeant means "One who serve" (kinda like the word samurai :wink:).

10% of knights? So you can't have a small army of just mounted knights? Umm, why? And knights are nobles aren't they?

Aww, just woke up, nevermind me, I'm rambling.
Toc-ciss-etee not Toxi-city or Toxic-ity. As is in the level of damage a toxin do to a cell or organism.

Luizinho

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #54 on: November 10, 2007, 04:10:46 PM »
i would like to see "army ranks" in the game...we have srgt in game, but it's weird cause you can have a whole party made of srgts, how about proportional number of ranked units.

like...

max of 10% of srgts in your party
max of 10% of knights ....
max of 3% of nobles....
max of 5% of chief archers (or whatever high ranked unit)



anyway...sorry for my bad english
Sergeant-at-arms are like a middle-class professional soldier, not like the modern military rank. IIRC, sergeant means "One who serve" (kinda like the word samurai :wink:).

10% of knights? So you can't have a small army of just mounted knights? Umm, why? And knights are nobles aren't they?

Aww, just woke up, nevermind me, I'm rambling.

nah, you're right, i was just being dumb there...
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Tankai

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2007, 11:21:11 PM »

LokiGodOfFire

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2007, 07:39:19 PM »
well regarding the upgrades. the possibility of a hireling to upgrade to a knight can be described, that he pays that upgrade price by has weekly wage, but unless the wages especially for knights rise its not a fair deal... for the knight:P
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gadiel

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #57 on: November 18, 2007, 04:10:16 PM »
i thought the knights bought there own armor back in those times, thats why only rich ppl who owned land were knights am i close?

Jheral

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2008, 05:39:21 AM »
How about making high-tier troops into heroes when knighted (you'd have to be a noble to knight them, of course)? You'd have to include some limit on how many you could have serving under you at any one time, of course, but it could work. Say, for instance, that you could have 4-5 in your party.

You could also include the option of giving them one of your fiefs, to protect it from bandits etc, and having their attributes give bonuses to it, like a bonus to income from intelligence, and an increase in recruits from charisma, or higher-tier recruits from ranks in training. This could be a nice way to start building your own faction, too.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 05:44:35 AM by Jheral »
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legoveoj

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Re: A long existing upgrade flaw!
« Reply #59 on: January 22, 2008, 02:30:57 AM »
Party members are not your slaves; you don't own them and everything they wear. They just stick around because you pay them and feed them, and for the prospect of loot. They own their equipment and supplement it by looting, and it is reasonable that by the time a peasant is upgraded all the way to a armored knight (or equivalent) he has picked up enough looted armor and weapons on the battlefield to outfit himself.