(floris mod) faction with most effective troops?

[Grunip]

Which one with the floris mod pack game play has the faction with most effective calv and infantry, or one of them?

[Hanakoganei]

Most effective as in straightforward playing-with-almost-no-tactical-skills-whatsoever, I'd have to say Swadian for Cavalry and Rhodok for Infantry.

Swadian Cavalry is all shielded and mostly heavily armored. They don't waste time or points with archery and simply charge straight into opponents. However, just like all other cavalry units, they are sitting ducks after the charge, if you charge into a shield wall or even worse, a braced spear position. For that matter, charging a cavalry unit into any competent infantry formation is practically suicide. You must do it with the proper tactics or lose all your horsemen.

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A simple and proper Swadian tactic is to use your longbows to soften up the enemy line while moving your infantry and cavalry closer slowly but almost simultaneously. When you're close enough or when the enemy line breaks, charge them both. Another simple tactic involves sending your cavalry in a wedge formation off to the side or behind the enemy line. While still in formation, order them to move across past the enemy line from their current position. This is known as flanking. Even a weaker cavalry force can perform this maneuver with great effect, if done properly. After an enemy formation has been flanked, they typically break their formation, making them easier targets for your infantry or archers to finish off.

Rhodok infantry is tough, have strong shields, and some of them have pikes that are great for stopping cavalry. The same could be said of Nord infantry, but what makes the Rhodoks tougher for me is actually the strength of their support units, the crossbowmen. The Nords suffer from lack of powerful ranged attacks, and therefore, unless you're really good at Nord strategy, they're pretty much all you have. With the Rhodok Infantry, even with less tactical skills, you can simply move them forward slowly with their shields up and the enemy line would already have been softened a little thanks to the crossbowmen.

Again, tactics is everything. A singular unit is useless if it doesn't have the proper support units behind it.

[Grunip]

thanks, but i already chose sarranids

[Hanakoganei]

The Sarranids have got to be the most well-rounded faction around. They have good cavalry, good infantry and good archers, but aren't the best at any of them (except the Sekban, who are excellent not because of their stats, but the fact that they use blunt weapons and can earn you a lot of money from prisoner sales).

[Ephafn]

The Sarranids have got to be the most well-rounded faction around. They have good cavalry, good infantry and good archers, but aren't the best at any of them (except the Sekban, who are excellent not because of their stats, but the fact that they use blunt weapons and can earn you a lot of money from prisoner sales).

Last time I check, the Sekban was bugged in that one of its blunt weapons is a polearm (the tier 3 and 4 ones), and they have really low polearm skill. For blunt damage goodness, I much prefer the Vaegirs Grids.

[Grunip]

meh, i'll stick with sarranids

[Hanakoganei]

Last time I check, the Sekban was bugged in that one of its blunt weapons is a polearm (the tier 3 and 4 ones), and they have really low polearm skill. For blunt damage goodness, I much prefer the Vaegirs Grids.

Oh right. I already fixed that with Morgh's lol. I fixed all the "polearm" weapons in fact. They all work properly now on horseback.

[Zaakjes]

The strength of the sarranid cavalry and and infantry was, to me, surprising. They stand a very good chance against the former dominant factions like swadia and nord. I've been joining this faction for this reason. But also the vaegirs seem to be pretty strong.

[anoddhermit]

The Sarranids never looked like they had good infantry to me, what am I missing?

Personally my favorites  are -

Infantry -
Nord Aetheling line: Powerful throwing weapons, solid 1h with polearm option
or Rhodok Capitano Di Ventura line: Very basic but tough and effective at earlier tier(4-6)

Cavalry -
Slave Crushers: Fast to level, blunt damage + bonus prisoner management makes them excellent)

Archers -
Khergit Numyn Ad: Fast to level(Can get them by just trainer skill by level 22 IIRC), decent melee capability w/shield, and reasonably fast piercing damage bow
or Rhodok Condottiero D'Assedio: Obviously the toughest archer, high piercing damage crossbow, durable shields, heavy armor and a good one hander

All depends on what I'm using them for of course. The Rhodok Fante/Veterano/Di Ventura are very durable for their tiers(4/5/6) and are great for castle defense or just blocking your archers. Aetheling line is fairly versatile offensive infantry, good for a siege since they can break through fast get your archers in. Slave Crushers are mainly for beating up other heavy cavalry by having them charge at their flanks when they're closing in on my infantry - or of course just beating up bandits for prisoner money. Numyn Ad is one of my favorite things to just stock up on since they rain arrows on things but then aren't absolutely worthless when they run out of arrows either. D'Assedios are just amazing if I want to siege a castle by attrition and just camping outside hammering the defenders shields up or not with slow firing but high damage crossbow fire.

Of course, I am cherry picking from all factions. I think if I had to pick a single faction, and actually planned on using its cavalry rather than just manhunter types, I'd use Vaegir. They have infantry with blunt weapons that makes it quite a bit easier when you're up against heavy armored troops, they have solid if very basic archers, and they have pretty good cavalry as well with horse archers if you really need them.

[Hanakoganei]

Sarranid infantry is weak if you charge them head on. That's not how to use them. They're fast and fairly versatile though, and they're pretty cheap and easy to train (because of lower levels). Versatility comes in the form of having ranged weapons (throwing spears for the Yeniceri line, and the Tabardariyya have bows but they qualify as infantry because they don't have tf_guarantee_ranged), which makes them great as flanking units. A great way to use them is to send them on a flanking run while the enemy is distracted by archers or even cavalry. Line them up near the side or back of the enemy front line while they try to deal with your cavalry, who could be attacking from the opposite side. After the cavalry charges, the line will be broken and your infantry can clean up.

Actually their speed may be purely psychological, because they have similar stats to other units of the same tiers. However, the lack of strong defensive units forces you to keep the infantry in motion, or suffer heavy casualties.

I've conquered all of the Khergit lands using mostly just Tabardariyya and Yeniceri (and the troops leading up to them) as flanker units, and Al-Haqa + Terkes Serdengecti + Silahatar forming my main assault. My archers are also continually advancing, rather than just forming an archery line and waiting for the enemy to come. This way, I can be attacking from three fronts simultaneously, even without cavalry. Tabardariyya + Yeniceri to attack from both flanks, while my main assault steadily advances from the front.

[anoddhermit]

It mostly sounds like they're just weak but you can make them work by using better strategy than the AI which isn't hard to do and can probably still be done more effectively with good infantry units. Sarranid infantry is all low level, and doesn't seem to have any remarkable unique advantage over nord infantry that's better armored with better shields while still being effective with throwing weapons. I suppose Tabardariyya might have a niche though.

[Hanakoganei]

Well, we never said the Sarranid infantry was the best at (or even very good at) anything. We did say that they're surprisingly more effective than they look on paper, especially if you use them properly. The faction overall is too well-rounded and focused only on mobility, without any other particular strengths except for having a tier 7 lancer and horse archer, which other factions have as well (and are better at, quite frankly).

[Grunip]

So you're saying I should switch to Vaegirs or nords?

[anoddhermit]

Nords do not have cavalry at all. Generally, it seems factions with good cavalry tend to have sub-par infantry and vice versa. Vaegirs are sort of middle of the pack when it comes to both. Sarranid Cavalry > Vaegir, but Vaegir infantry > Sarranid IMO.

[Hanakoganei]

I find Vaegir infantry weak, but I'm fairly sure it's because of my play style rather than their stats and equipment. Vaegir infantry moves slowly and have slow weapons. I run circles around them when I play Sarranid.

The only infantry that I truly respect as truly being "tough" all around is the Nord, with Rhodok being in second place. Even without smart positioning, they can hold their own well. Everybody else is much more dependent on how you play them.