Author Topic: The Khazars  (Read 2279 times)

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LavaLampMaster

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The Khazars
« on: June 18, 2007, 05:32:52 AM »
I've tried researching the Khazars (I'm Jewish and want to learn more about my heritage), but I've never managed to find out any real cultural or military information, just sort of basic stuff. I know they were a Jewish kaganate that was pretty powerful, and had western and steppe influences, but other than that, not much.
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Allegro

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Re: The Khazars
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2007, 07:25:15 AM »
 They werent Jewish from the beginning, they were shamanist like other Turks. Their conversion to Judaism happened after they lost their capital Itil to Umayyads. They were successful at stopping the Umayyads, after they killed the Umayyad general they relied too much on that victory and launched an attack, they went as far as Mosul but they got defeated there and there started a chain of defeats, they couldnt manage to reorganize and stop the Arabs until they lost their capital city but then they managed to push the Arabs back out of Khazaria. After the capture of their capitals Khazars came out as a Jewish state, it isnt really known why they had converted but the most reasonable explanation is that they wanted to remain neutral between Byzantines, Kievans and Arabs. Plus Khazaria was a trader kingdom, it is said that the state took only trade taxes and it was still enough to make them rich. I dont know to what degree this was true but it is still certain that they held very important trade routes and their true source of wealth was trade so this might be another reason for choosing Judaism.
 After their conversion they became the only Jewish country and sole defender of the faith, they were in contact with Spanish Jews and whenever Jews got mistreated in any country the Khazars responded in same way by razing a mosque or a church or banishing some people of that faith.
 
« Last Edit: June 18, 2007, 07:28:50 AM by Allegro »

Cirdan

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Re: The Khazars
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2007, 01:51:07 PM »
I believe the conversion of the Khazar was largely due to  contact with Jewish traders (such as the Rhadanites) along the Black Sea. At the height of their power, the Khazars ruled the steppes from the Caspian Sea (which the Arabs called "Bahr ul-Khazar", Sea of the Khazars) to the Crimean peninsula. They were granted by the Byzantines a gold seal equal in weight to that afforded to the Caliphate in diplomatic communications; this was the heaviest gold seal used by the Byzantine chancery, and was reserved for the Caliphate and Khazaria, meaning that Byzantium regarded these as the two most powerful states in the world (in addition to herself).

The conversion to Judaism occured ca. 800 CE, and there is much debate as to how deep it went. The traditionall view was that the ruling classes were Jewish, whereas the people practised a number of religions, including Judaism, Islam and a number of Christian sects, of which the Nestorians were likely the most numerous.

Khazaria declined due to internal strife, diplomatic isolation resulting from detriorating relations with the Byzantines, and the appearance of the "Varangian Road" which drew trade away from Khazar territory. Sviatoslav of Kiev sacked the capital city of Itil in 969, and although the Khazars still existed, their territory was gradually absorbed by the Kievans, the Volga Bulgars and other neighbouring potentates.

nijis

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Re: The Khazars
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2007, 03:04:42 PM »
No idea how accurate it will be, but you might enjoy this upcoming Khazar-themed adventure novel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen_of_the_Road
« Last Edit: June 18, 2007, 03:07:30 PM by nijis »
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LavaLampMaster

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Re: The Khazars
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2007, 08:35:41 PM »
I'm probably going to buy that book.
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Aqtai

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Re: The Khazars
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2007, 08:06:42 PM »
This reply is a bit late, but have you come accross this website?

http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors/khazar.html
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nijis

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Re: The Khazars
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2007, 09:03:51 PM »
Neat material, political overtones notwithstanding. The Khazar armour here --- http://www.geocities.com/normlaw/khazararms/ -- looks very familiar...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2007, 09:11:26 PM by nijis »
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Aqtai

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Re: The Khazars
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2007, 08:57:29 AM »
A few more internet sources on the Khazars:

http://www.geocities.com/egfroth1/Khazars

http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-history.html

This website is in Russian, but it is supposed to have information about the Khazars on it. I can't read Russian and I have no way of confirming this:
http://tgorod.ru/index.php?contentid=252

I don't know if this is Khazar armour, but it's from the same area:


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Dogukan

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Re: The Khazars
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2007, 07:17:02 AM »
As I know most of the Jews are originated from this region
Original Jews were semitic but when you look at Israel you can see most are non-semitic people.This means most of the pop of Israel isn't Jewish actually and most have Turkic/Caucasian backgrounds
Though it's said that cultural genes are more important.Jews made a hard work recreating their language and building a country around hostiles.I guess thats why they let Arabs live in Israel because they're semite(and their cousins).After generations those Arabs will lose their identity and will increase the number of semitic Jews
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Re: The Khazars
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2007, 08:06:59 AM »
There's a reason for that. The majority of Jews in Israel came from Europe, mostly central and eastern Europe at that.

While there are a good sized amount of Turkic an Caucasian Jews, Bukharan and Juhurim respectively, they don't make up the majority of the Jewish gene pool.

As it stands, the original gene strain specific to the Hebrew sub-division of the Semites is gone. It disappeared within four hundred years of the Bar Kokhba Revolt, when the Romans expelled the Hebrew people from Israel.

It's been breed out basically. So many moved into Europe after that, specifically into the Germanic lands and those of Slavs, outside of Roman territory, that the majority of Jews today are [genetically] just that- Slavs[Ashkenazi Jews, Galitzianers] and Germans[Yiddish Jews].
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Allegro

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Re: The Khazars
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2007, 10:42:04 PM »
Khazar Turks werent Caucasoid, Turks were originally Mongoloid.

Dogukan

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Re: The Khazars
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2007, 12:04:49 AM »
Khazar Turks werent Caucasoid, Turks were originally Mongoloid.
Well depends on the tribe.Most Turks today aren't Mongoloid like Mongols let's say
Orthodox Marxism, therefore, does not imply the uncritical acceptance of the results of Marx's investigations. It is not the "belief" in this or that thesis, nor the exegesis of a "sacred" book. On the contrary, orthodoxy refers exclusively to method. It is the scientific conviction that dialectical materialism is the road to truth, and that its methods can be developed, expanded, and deepened, only along the lines laid down by its founders"
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Grunwalder

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Re: The Khazars
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2007, 08:17:04 AM »
The appropriate term I guess would be Altaic.
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Allegro

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Re: The Khazars
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2007, 10:15:13 AM »
Khazar Turks werent Caucasoid, Turks were originally Mongoloid.
Well depends on the tribe.Most Turks today aren't Mongoloid like Mongols let's say
People in Turkey arent, but Uzbeks, Khazaks, Kyrgyz and Turkmen are. Turks of Turkey arent reflections of their great ancestors, Oğuz tribes mixed with Persian and Antolian peoples becoming today's Turks. They were Mongoloid until then.

Aqtai

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Re: The Khazars
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2007, 12:11:17 PM »
I've just scanned some more pics of Khazar stuff from one of my books:



BLACK KNIGHT: 'Tis but a scratch.

ARTHUR: A scratch? Your arm's off.

Monty Python and The Holy Grail. 1977