Casualties

[-AoG- X3N0PH083]

Sounds like you need to invest in Jeremus' skills. I take barely any at all.

[Hanakoganei]

My character has maximum Surgery and over 30 Int (I think it's 34 now). It really helps. Having high Int also helps you level up a little faster, but I was planning on an Int/Cha character even before I knew that about this mod. But I only have like 15 Strength and my Power attack skills and Riding/Horse Archery are pretty low lol. Power Strike is my highest at 5. It's still not enough to one-hit most of the time, but the good news is that if I'm doing my job as a commander right, I shouldn't need to get in too much combat myself. It should be my soldiers doing most of the killing while I just direct them around the battlefield.

As for firearms, I modded a bunch of player kingdom troops that center around firearms and light+fast infantry and cavalry. Floris added OSP firearms pack but as far as I can tell, no troops or other NPCs actually use them. They're probably only for the player's use. I figure it would be interesting to see my kingdom's army use a new technology and a completely unique tactical style, as all the other factions have their own style as well.

[eastpaw]

It's a hidden skill called Firearms. You can enable displaying it via the module.ini file in the mod folder. Naturally it doesn't gain any levels by itself, and normal troops also have 0 in it.

So if I wanted to put firearms into the game for some reason, my character and companions will not be able to use them properly? Or can the Firearms skill be made visible on the level-up screen and/or automatically gain levels when I use guns in combat?

I guess an alternative would be to modify guns to use Archery or Crossbows instead, but that would be kind of yucky. Well, maybe Crossbows wouldn't be so bad.

Edit:

Floris added OSP firearms pack but as far as I can tell, no troops or other NPCs actually use them. They're probably only for the player's use.

O_o How did I miss seeing that altogether?

Edit 2:

Ah, right. The models, etc. are in the game but they are not available by default.

Anyway, I think some people (myself included, perhaps) might like to give your gun soldiers a whirl. Think you'd like to share your mod here or in the Submods thread?

[Ghgl]

 

Sounds like you need to invest in Jeremus' skills. I take barely any at all.

Jeremus on my party has 8 in all 3 "medic" skills. The reinforcement system is really messing me up.

[Hanakoganei]

So if I wanted to put firearms into the game for some reason, my character and companions will not be able to use them properly? Or can the Firearms skill be made visible on the level-up screen and/or automatically gain levels when I use guns in combat?

They already know how to use them. Even without the skill being made visible via the module.ini file, they can equip the weapons, but they'll have 0 skill until you train them in it. You will gain weapon skill points normally just like any other weapon. It was just hidden because Native (and Floris) doesn't really use firearms, and it is therefore a useless stat until you mod it in. Kinda like how Riding is a useless stat for Nord troops, or Power Draw is a useless stat for Rhodoks.

O_o How did I miss seeing that altogether?

*waggle eyebrows*

Anyway, I think some people (myself included, perhaps) might like to give your gun soldiers a whirl. Think you'd like to share your mod here or in the Submods thread?

I'll think about it. Probably in the submods thread. I'm actually thinking of changing the troops completely, or at least making a new recruitable troop tree, since I've already gotten the hang of it.

Take note though, if you guys plan to try guns in your game, they're bugged and don't work properly with PBOD/FormAI. It's a known issue apparently because the mod doesn't recognize guns as ranged weapons. I tried editing the parts of the scripts for formations to recognize guns and pistols, but I may have missed some parts and they still refuse to form ranged formations. Any attempt to give them any formation or weapon order will make them act like infantry. As in they have their guns holstered and have their swords or daggers out, and the only way to get them to use their guns is to remove their formation and order them to fire at will. It kinda ruins the point of pre-battle orders and formations. It's a big part of the reason I want to change them and stop using guns altogether.

[eastpaw]

Even without the skill being made visible via the module.ini file, they can equip the weapons, but they'll have 0 skill until you train them in it. You will gain weapon skill points normally just like any other weapon.

But can you assign points to Firearms on level up?

Take note though, if you guys plan to try guns in your game, they're bugged and don't work properly with PBOD/FormAI. It's a known issue apparently because the mod doesn't recognize guns as ranged weapons. I tried editing the parts of the scripts for formations to recognize guns and pistols, but I may have missed some parts and they still refuse to form ranged formations. Any attempt to give them any formation or weapon order will make them act like infantry. As in they have their guns holstered and have their swords or daggers out, and the only way to get them to use their guns is to remove their formation and order them to fire at will. It kinda ruins the point of pre-battle orders and formations. It's a big part of the reason I want to change them and stop using guns altogether.

That sounds like a pain. What would happen if you modded guns to be crossbows instead? Hm... but I guess that would make them take bolts rather than shot? O_o

[oh_no]

But can you assign points to Firearms on level up?

That sounds like a pain. What would happen if you modded guns to be crossbows instead? Hm... but I guess that would make them take bolts rather than shot? O_o

Yes, if you've enabled it in the .ini.

I just actually tried that out and it worked.  Switched the flintlock pistol and rifle to crossbows, loaded the troops with bolts, and they were fully capable of forming lines and firing in volleys.  Basing firearms off of the crossbow skill make break immersion a little bit, but that's a price I'm willing to pay.  Nice suggestion.

[eastpaw]

I just actually tried that out and it worked.  Switched the flintlock pistol and rifle to crossbows, loaded the troops with bolts, and they were fully capable of forming lines and firing in volleys.  Basing firearms off of the crossbow skill make break immersion a little bit, but that's a price I'm willing to pay.  Nice suggestion.

Thanks for testing it out!

I rather feel that the immersion-breaking comes more from having guns use bolts as ammo, actually. That quite clearly makes no sense.

I would imagine that someone adept with a crossbow would be decent with the aiming part of using a musket, and someone who knows guns could probably work a crossbow with a little bit of trial and error. Then again, I've fired bolt-action rifles and the AR15 but have never touched a crossbow, so I could be dead wrong. Has anyone out there got experience with both rifles (or muskets!) and crossbows?

[Chees3]

I think the crossbow skill is used to determine firearm accuracy in Napoleonic Wars too.I guess its not too odd

[Caba`drin]

It was also used for WFaS for some reason. *shrug*

[oh_no]

I just actually tried that out and it worked.  Switched the flintlock pistol and rifle to crossbows, loaded the troops with bolts, and they were fully capable of forming lines and firing in volleys.  Basing firearms off of the crossbow skill make break immersion a little bit, but that's a price I'm willing to pay.  Nice suggestion.

Thanks for testing it out!

I rather feel that the immersion-breaking comes more from having guns use bolts as ammo, actually. That quite clearly makes no sense.

I would imagine that someone adept with a crossbow will be decent with the aiming part of using a musket, and someone who knows guns could probably work a crossbow with a little bit of trial and error. Then again, I've fired bolt-action rifles and the AR15 but have never touched a crossbow, so I could be dead wrong. Has anyone out there got experience with both rifles (or muskets!) and crossbows?

What I ended up doing was making some cartridge items that used the cartridge textures and features, but are technically listed as bolts.  You could use them with crossbows and likewise use crossbow bolts with firearms, but I like consistency.

It does make sense for someone with an understanding of crossbows to be somewhat skilled with firing firearms, though the maintenance and reloading procedures are different.   Regardless, I'm fine with it, and this little discovery has actually given me the kick I needed to make up a new troop tree.  Calradia better watch out, the loyalists are coming back to restore the empire.

[Hanakoganei]

Since you guys are on the topic, I completely stopped using firearms for my custom troops and turned them into versatile desert warrior/assassin types instead. Kinda like a mix between the Sarranid Yeniceri and the Tabardariyya. Ymira is still using a flintlock rifle though, just for fun. Might let Artimenner use one too, if I decide to add him to my party at some point.

I have no strong archer type with my new army composition (my "archers" are actually better at melee than ranged attacks) and only a few heavy armor/shielded troops (some of them are actually just the mercenaries). Took a video of my siege of Sharwa Castle where I ended up with 32 killed, 176 wounded (versus 775 killed and 27 wounded). I got uncomfortable because we were taking lots of casualties and retreated, not knowing there was only like 30-something castle defenders left. When I besieged the castle again I just let them go peacefully. Don't want to risk any more of my foolhardy warriors.

... I think I get way more casualties now than ever before lol. I'm so used to fighting against the Sarranids, and I used to get less than 100 total casualties even on big sieges. But it's still fun inspite of (or maybe because of?) how squishy my troops are. They're fast and move around the battlefield easily, and because they have various ranged weapons they can kill while on the move. I definitely had Sarranid tactics in mind when I put them together, and when I conquer the Sarranids finally (hence the siege of Sharwa), I'll incorporate them into the Sarranid ranks.

[Ghgl]

And just to derail the topic even more, can you access custom troops only when you have your own faction? does that Sigmund guy only appears when you have your own faction?

(Never saw him before, aware of the bug, but then again I never really bothered looking for him too)

[eastpaw]

I think the crossbow skill us used to determine firearm accuracy in Napoleonic Wars too.I guess its not too odd

It was also used for WFaS for some reason. *shrug*

Huh. I didn't know that. Though I have WFaS (bought the complete collection), I've never even fired it up.

What I ended up doing was making some cartridge items that used the cartridge textures and features, but are technically listed as bolts.  You could use them with crossbows and likewise use crossbow bolts with firearms, but I like consistency.

So there's nothing stopping you from loading cartridges in crossbows and bolts in guns? Still, this does help immersion quite a bit. I might try this myself!

It does make sense for someone with an understanding of crossbows to be somewhat skilled with firing firearms, though the maintenance and reloading procedures are different.

Since the skill only affects aiming and not maintenance or reloading, there's no problem there at all, right?

Since you guys are on the topic, I completely stopped using firearms for my custom troops and turned them into versatile desert warrior/assassin types instead./snip/

*shakes fist* Get 'em videos up already, Hanako! 

[oh_no]

(click to show/hide)

And just to derail the topic even more, can you access custom troops only when you have your own faction? does that Sigmund guy only appears when you have your own faction?

(Never saw him before, aware of the bug, but then again I never really bothered looking for him too)

If by "custom troops" you mean the ones that Hanakoganei and myself have been using, no.  I added mine in through morgh's editor, and I suspect that Hana is doing the same.  Sigmund appears throughout the game, but like the other tavern occupants, he only appears in one tavern at a time and moves periodically.  If you don't correct the bug, he won't show up at all.

Since you guys are on the topic, I completely stopped using firearms for my custom troops and turned them into versatile desert warrior/assassin types instead. Kinda like a mix between the Sarranid Yeniceri and the Tabardariyya. Ymira is still using a flintlock rifle though, just for fun. Might let Artimenner use one too, if I decide to add him to my party at some point.

I have no strong archer type with my new army composition (my "archers" are actually better at melee than ranged attacks) and only a few heavy armor/shielded troops (some of them are actually just the mercenaries). Took a video of my siege of Sharwa Castle where I ended up with 32 killed, 176 wounded (versus 775 killed and 27 wounded). I got uncomfortable because we were taking lots of casualties and retreated, not knowing there was only like 30-something castle defenders left. When I besieged the castle again I just let them go peacefully. Don't want to risk any more of my foolhardy warriors.

... I think I get way more casualties now than ever before lol. I'm so used to fighting against the Sarranids, and I used to get less than 100 total casualties even on big sieges. But it's still fun inspite of (or maybe because of?) how squishy my troops are. They're fast and move around the battlefield easily, and because they have various ranged weapons they can kill while on the move. I definitely had Sarranid tactics in mind when I put them together, and when I conquer the Sarranids finally (hence the siege of Sharwa), I'll incorporate them into the Sarranid ranks.

Haha, you just love making things hard on yourself, don't you?  Still, that does sound interesting.  I'm imaging that your units probably hit hard, 208 casualties to 802 is pretty good, especially if you besieged the enemy on your own.  The Sarranid aren't the best at defending though, all you've really got to do is park your archers in front of the wall and let them drop the majority of the enemies.  They aren't bad at launching a siege though, using the same tactic.  Their upper tier cavalry do a fair job at storming the walls as well.

It does sound really cool to have fast versatile units though.  That sort doesn't lend itself well to stationary fights, but I would think that they might dominate an open field.

So there's nothing stopping you from loading cartridges in crossbows and bolts in guns? Still, this does help immersion quite a bit. I might try this myself!

Yep!  Although 50 "cartridges" in an Arbalest might give you a little bit of an unfair edge...