Author Topic: Casualties  (Read 3896 times)

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Ghgl

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Casualties
« on: July 02, 2012, 05:03:33 PM »
Here's a discussion about casualties.

How many casualties do you sustain before deciding that it is a lost cause?
What specific tactics do you employ to reduce casualties?
When is sustaining a large amount of casualties acceptable for you?

For me, my current army is about 160 split evenly about 30% each in infantry,archers and cavalry. Using the basic tactics of holding infantry (or lancers to stop cavalry charges) in front, archers behind hailing arrows and bolts, then cavalry charge to cut their army in half. My guys usually sustain 0-3 casualties against enemy forces less then ~70. Any more and I will just restart the battle.
Against those forces in the range of 70-130(usually against lords with a bunch of tier5-7), roughly 10-15 casualties is acceptable to me.

I don't fight forces that are massively overwhelming to me. I feel that those fights are just a waste of resources.

The only time when I had a casualty count of 40+ and did not restart the battle is when I was taking Sargoth (a key stronghold for me), and freeing three important lords in the process.

Hanakoganei

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Re: Casualties
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2012, 06:24:33 PM »
Depends on the size and importance of the battle for me. If I'm just fighting a weaker lord or a bunch of bandits, I don't want to lose too many men. Getting 15 total casualties (either killed or wounded) is already huge for me in such tiny skirmishes. If I can, I try to keep it in the single-digit range, but it's sometimes inevitable especially when fighting against Rhodoks or Khergits (Rhodoks because crossbows are pretty accurate and can kill some of your men from afar even through shields, Khergits because they like to flank using their lancers).

In an important battle like a siege or field conflict of kingdom army versus kingdom army (anything above 800 total participants), I think it's normal and acceptable to get up to 120 total casualties.

However, as in everything it still depends on the situations. I will retreat at times even if I'm winning, because the prize of combat may be less than the cost of the lives of your men, such as in large battles with bandit groups (biggest group I've seen was 1,200 men), where even if you win against them, the loot is worth like only 3,000 denars in total and barely enough exp to level your men up, while you may have lost a lot of tiers 4 and up that took you a few days to train.

And there are times when your army is just outmatched, like if you get caught by a King's army or large bandit group while you have mostly lower-tier units that you were training. At that point I try to retreat as soon as I've dealt a few casualties, especially if I was able to knock the commander out from afar. But I try to stay out of such situations by bringing most of my top tier troops with me, with only one or two stacks of trainees so that I can still intimidate most lords.
"To me an unnecessary action, or shot, or casualty, was not only waste but sin."
- T.E. Lawrence

wakko2k

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Re: Casualties
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2012, 06:24:49 PM »
I usually dont restart unless something very terrible happened, like all my high end units happens to die. And even then I dont always restart, its a part of the game after all. Its not fun to *always* win every single battle :)

I've often attacked overwhelming forces, mainly to see how good I can manage it. Its fun when a battle goes great even if your odds of wining is pretty low.
Above content may contain traces of nonsense.


Hanakoganei

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Re: Casualties
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2012, 06:35:23 PM »
I usually dont restart unless something very terrible happened, like all my high end units happens to die. And even then I dont always restart, its a part of the game after all. Its not fun to *always* win every single battle :)

I've often attacked overwhelming forces, mainly to see how good I can manage it. Its fun when a battle goes great even if your odds of wining is pretty low.
Haha yeah I agree. That's why I like to use the tier 4-5 Sarranids really. They're not the toughest guys out there but they have a certain style that reminds me of desert warriors you often see in movies and whatnot. I'm actually remembering The Mummy and Prince of Persia as I fight with them. I lose a lot of men in some battles but winning feels more glorious when you win with 180 tier 4-5 Sarranids against King Harlaus' 480 men and his friggen heavy cavalry and longbowmen.

For that reason, I also don't restart after battles at all. Restarting for me is when I get captured. I hate that because you might lose your companions and some rare/expensive equipment. Might take weeks of in-game time to recover whatever you lose.
"To me an unnecessary action, or shot, or casualty, was not only waste but sin."
- T.E. Lawrence

rebelsupertrooper

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Re: Casualties
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2012, 01:03:43 AM »
I'm getting my butt kicked in my game, I joined a one of the lords armys and fought with them untill I reached around lvl 10 (And had some really top notch gear) After I left and became a lord everything hit the fan, Nords have taken over swadia, vagiers took the khright khante, and are now breathing down us rohdoks necks. I cant seem to raise an army higher then 50 men becuase I get hit by bandits/enemy lords as soon as I get them to Tier 2. I just fought a group of bandits and lost 40 out of my 79 man army. Right when I got them to tier 2 aswell. I think now is a great time for a restart  :|

I can't seem to avoid heavy loses in battles anymore, its gotten depressing  :cry:
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 01:05:45 AM by rebelsupertrooper »

Aziyk

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Re: Casualties
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2012, 05:25:50 AM »
I never take tier 1 and 2 troops into battle unless I get caught on the map and outrun (spotting FTW).  I assign them to a separate group and have them sit back and watch the fun.  It doesn't take but a couple of in game days to level them up to at least 3. When starting out, I'll often hire some mercs to hold me over until my troops are ready to take blood instead of giving blood.  Get a loan if you must.

If your low level troops are being slaughtered then you as a commander need to do a better job of picking fights you can win!

Hanakoganei

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Re: Casualties
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2012, 06:15:51 AM »
When starting out, I'll often hire some mercs to hold me over until my troops are ready to take blood instead of giving blood.  Get a loan if you must.

If your low level troops are being slaughtered then you as a commander need to do a better job of picking fights you can win!
Agreed. I'm glad that even high level merc troops, like the unbelievably tough Landsknecthe, are readily available in taverns at times. Provided you have enough money to hire them (it's like under 3K I think to get a dozen?), they and the other mercs/sword sisters can be some of the most useful troops you'll get even when you start making a full faction army. It's much smarter than running around villages to get a bunch of tier 1 recruits, who don't scare even Looter bands away.
"To me an unnecessary action, or shot, or casualty, was not only waste but sin."
- T.E. Lawrence

rebelsupertrooper

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Re: Casualties
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2012, 06:48:38 AM »
I try to avoid the battles at all cost, (I really need to boost my spotting) I'm going to start geting mercs and using that strat. Time for payback >:)

J Awesome

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Re: Casualties
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2012, 06:54:59 AM »
Casualties concern me when
A:)  High level/Hard to get units start dropping like flies
B:)  Number of available troops gets dangerously low

As for reducing casualties, I normally either hold down defensively with foot troops (shield wall with archers behind them), and have companion horse archers distract the enemies for clear shots;  or when I use cavalry, I run through them with a cavalry wedge and distract/separate their line with HA's
And don't be afraid to take on much larger numbers.  It's all about wiping out the front-end of the armies.  Whatever T1's and rabble they picked up as bandit prisoners shouldn't be too hard after that.

Ghgl

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Re: Casualties
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2012, 01:13:05 PM »
Well I don't know...seeing several red lines pop up suddenly is kinda demoralising.

 Also I'm noticing that my reinforcement almost never arrives, so when fighting forces about the same size as my own,(I assume I have higher tactics as I always seem to have a battle advantage), their reinforcement just whittle down my troop's health.

E.g. I start out 73 against 67. killing the first 40 or so troops trigger enemy reinforcement, which makes it (with some of my own guys injured/dead) 70-60. then slowly it becomes 65-60, 60-65 :|

Hanakoganei

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Re: Casualties
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2012, 01:31:53 PM »
Reinforcements will arrive when your troops take a lot of casualties. We're talking almost all of your men are dead, not just if you lose 5 or 10 men. I don't know the exact calculations on hand, but it feels like if you have 60+ troops to begin the battle, depending on your actual battle advantage you might only get reinforced if only 10 or less of them are still able to fight (not routed, wounded or dead).
"To me an unnecessary action, or shot, or casualty, was not only waste but sin."
- T.E. Lawrence

J Awesome

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Re: Casualties
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2012, 09:09:30 PM »
Well I don't know...seeing several red lines pop up suddenly is kinda demoralising.

 Also I'm noticing that my reinforcement almost never arrives, so when fighting forces about the same size as my own,(I assume I have higher tactics as I always seem to have a battle advantage), their reinforcement just whittle down my troop's health.

E.g. I start out 73 against 67. killing the first 40 or so troops trigger enemy reinforcement, which makes it (with some of my own guys injured/dead) 70-60. then slowly it becomes 65-60, 60-65 :|

Yeah, the way enemy reinforcements works is kinda stupid, and needs to be reworked.  However, don't be afraid to pull back away from the reinforcement point:  This will make the enemies charge towards you and spread themselves thin, leaving you and your cavalry to run by and pick off any loose stragglers.

Leifdin

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Re: Casualties
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2012, 06:58:06 AM »
Quote
How many casualties do you sustain before deciding that it is a lost cause?
What specific tactics do you employ to reduce casualties?
When is sustaining a large amount of casualties acceptable for you?
1.I always fight to end
2.Nord infantry, ranks, stand closer, if they have cavalry, stand ground, otherwise advance, stand ground within range of few meters form enemies, wait for throwing weapons to deplete, advance
3.Anytime I'm not lying on ground, then I'll retreat and continue fighting.
- "What is it that a man may call the greatest things in life?"
 - "Hot water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper."
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Ghgl

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Re: Casualties
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2012, 08:52:44 AM »
Quote
How many casualties do you sustain before deciding that it is a lost cause?
What specific tactics do you employ to reduce casualties?
When is sustaining a large amount of casualties acceptable for you?
1.I always fight to end
2.Nord infantry, ranks, stand closer, if they have cavalry, stand ground, otherwise advance, stand ground within range of few meters form enemies, wait for throwing weapons to deplete, advance
3.Anytime I'm not lying on ground, then I'll retreat and continue fighting.

Do you not care about your men?! you heartless commander! :(

Hanakoganei

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Re: Casualties
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2012, 09:30:05 AM »
lol

I like to think of it that way too. Also it's a bit of a pain to lose especially the higher tier men. Even with Trainer 10 and some of my companions also having levels in Trainer, it takes quite a while to level units up to tier 5 and 6 (and 7, though I don't have many of those). I'd rather preserve the lives of my men as much as possible so that I can continue my push through enemy territory.
"To me an unnecessary action, or shot, or casualty, was not only waste but sin."
- T.E. Lawrence