Author Topic: Vaegirs suck!  (Read 1439 times)

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Patooka3

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Vaegirs suck!
« on: June 22, 2012, 08:51:16 PM »
Does anyone else think vaegirs fail in all troop classes? I know it says vaegirs have the best archers but their shitty fire rate and armor makes them highly vulnerable to the REAL best archers, sarrnid master archers. Also the vaegirs terrible infantry and cavalry can be cut down by any other soldier.
reapers gonna reap.

Ivan Khan

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Re: Vaegirs suck!
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2012, 09:15:13 PM »
I think this belongs in our THE OFFICAL CRY ABOUT M&B MEGA THREAD  http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,232617.0.html thread

But, yea the Vargirs suck. Their Knights and Horseman are weaker than other cavalry. Their archers are not nearly as strong as they appear on paper and are useless in melee. Only Vaegir unit I like is their Veteran which is a half infantry/half cavalry unit. Veterans are hardy little buggers both mounted and on foot. I do not advance them to higher levels though as I think the Vaegir higher infantry and horseman are not worth it.



Patooka3

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Re: Vaegirs suck!
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2012, 09:20:33 PM »
I think this belongs in our THE OFFICAL CRY ABOUT M&B MEGA THREAD  http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,232617.0.html thread

But, yea the Vargirs suck. Their Knights and Horseman are weaker than other cavalry. Their archers are not nearly as strong as they appear on paper and are useless in melee. Only Vaegir unit I like is their Veteran which is a half infantry/half cavalry unit. Veterans are hardy little buggers both mounted and on foot. I do not advance them to higher levels though as I think the Vaegir higher infantry and horseman are not worth it.
I was not complaining about it, just stating my opinion.
reapers gonna reap.

Rallix

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Re: Vaegirs suck!
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2012, 10:15:32 PM »
The Vaegirs were to be honest, poorly done or ignored, in Warband.
I always make them a little stronger using mod tools. For example, their archers go:
Skirmisher: Short Bow, 4 power draw, 120 archery.
Archer: Nomad Bow, 5 Power Draw, 150 archery.
Marksman: War Bow, 6 Power Draw, 180 archery.

I also buff their infantry and cavalry to have stats more on par with the other factions.

Lord Silvabane

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Re: Vaegirs suck!
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2012, 01:47:54 AM »
They really are terrible. Swadia and the Sultanate beat them at every hurdle.

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kittehs

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Re: Vaegirs suck!
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2012, 05:46:04 PM »
Vaegirs don't suck. I don't get the obsession with just comparing top tier units without regards to cost or time to train them. Vaegir Knights are easier to get than Swadian Knights and they are still almost as good as them. Vaegir foot soldiers are not well armored but they hit almost as hard as Nords with their obsession with powerful two handed axes. The Vaegir veterans are the only infantry I seen that can give my Nords trouble, their armor sucks but when they hit they hit very hard.

Basically the vaegirs an all offense,low defense faction that favors quantity over quality. If you play them like they will serve you right. They are better than Saranids at least. The only thing the Saranids have worthwhile is mamlukes. Everything else is so inferior it is a waste (the infantry) or barely adequate (master archers).

Lord Silvabane

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Re: Vaegirs suck!
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2012, 11:53:45 PM »
(click to show/hide)
I tested out the Vaegirs in custom battles and their infantry squashes any other faction's infantry except Nords.
Their archers are on par with Nords and the Rhodick crossbowmen.
Their cavalry are only slightly inferior to the Swadians and Sultanate but are still a good alternative as they're reliable lancers.
I may have judged them wrongly the first time around.

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estevesbk

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Re: Vaegirs suck!
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2012, 12:31:49 AM »
Well, I've been away from M&B Warband for one year.

But as far as I remember, Vaegirs were fine. Their archers are good (I prefer Rhodook ones but Vaegirs are fine), and they cavalry isn't that bad. They may not have the best cavalry or the best archers but this doesn't make them bad being the 2nd or the 3rd best. The only faction I consider weak are the Khergits, but that's for another topic! ;)

Ivan Khan

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Re: Vaegirs suck!
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2012, 05:37:01 PM »
Well, I think they finally fixed the shield bug in 1.153.

One of the problems with Vaegirs has been a bug that made their higher end units spawn without shields. Just went to war with them for 1st time in 1.153 and low and behold they had shields. Either on their backs or on there arms. Shields fix their 'weakness' problem a lot! 

I have also noticed bow and arrow armed units seem to hit harder. Vaegir Marksmen seemed much more effective.

Still early, have to train some of them up myself to see if their weakness has been fixed, but I was encouraged enough to do it.

malacka07

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Re: Vaegirs suck!
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2012, 06:57:27 PM »
Well, I think they finally fixed the shield bug in 1.153.

No, they didn't.

devilkingx2

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Re: Vaegirs suck!
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2012, 07:02:28 PM »
I've played this whole game under the impression that swadia AND the vaegirs suck,

as I see it, the nord have the best on foot melee(huscarls) making them best in sieges,

the khergits have the best archers(even if some other archers hit harder or more often, you can easily ride up to most of them on your horse and kill them somewhat easily... when the archer is moving rapidly on a horse himself that changes everything, it's hard enough when its a melee unit you can't catch, it's even worse when they can hurt you from your position)

the khergits are also the best ground units because cavalry has a massive advantage over things that are not cavalry

and that leaves the rhodoks and sarranids, now I don't know anything about the latter(sarranids) so I can't judge,

 and the former(rhodoks) has spearmen, which are basically the best things against cavalry besides cavalry and debatably besides archers which doesn't rank them too high on the whole vs cavalry scale, but they don't seem that useful in sieges(which they share with cavalry)

swadia and vaegirs seem to be the only factions without a unique hook/edge that doesn't make them completely useless, well roundedness is useless in M&B as long as whatever faction you are at war with isn't warring with the faction that has the best of the troop type you currently want/need

now if you manage to anger the nords and the rhodoks and the khergits, then you better be swadian or vaegir because that'll be the only time that well-rounded units is actually useful


IMO.

P.S: now that I think about it, a minute or two later, most of this post was colored by the fact that I mostly used Melee until.... yesterday night(now I'm a huge fan of archery) so things may differ if you use archery instead of sword, shield and lance or if you use throwing weapons(for some reason) or polearms off of horses(but that sounds pretty stupid to me)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 07:06:53 PM by devilkingx2 »
man, i need something cool to put here

uhhh black power?

Argeus the Paladin

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Re: Vaegirs suck!
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2012, 11:56:35 PM »
Well, I think they finally fixed the shield bug in 1.153.

One of the problems with Vaegirs has been a bug that made their higher end units spawn without shields. Just went to war with them for 1st time in 1.153 and low and behold they had shields. Either on their backs or on there arms. Shields fix their 'weakness' problem a lot! 

I have also noticed bow and arrow armed units seem to hit harder. Vaegir Marksmen seemed much more effective.

Still early, have to train some of them up myself to see if their weakness has been fixed, but I was encouraged enough to do it.

... Aren't the top-tier Vaegir troops supposed to be shieldless? That's like their nation's entire war philosophy, besides laughing at marching in line.

Or is it just a TEatRC thing?

tzlop

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Re: Vaegirs suck!
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2012, 01:22:07 AM »
Vaegir top tier = Mid tier Nords without shield riding horses, simple math.
         

Ivan Khan

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Re: Vaegirs suck!
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2012, 02:18:19 AM »

... Aren't the top-tier Vaegir troops supposed to be shieldless? That's like their nation's entire war philosophy, besides laughing at marching in line.


NO, all Vargir infantry/cavalry from footman up should have a kite shield.

So far it appears they all get them now in sieges, and most of them have shields in field battles, though I did see a Horseman and a Knight without shields in my last field battle.

As for archery, they clearly made player archery easier. So far, it seems that bow and arrows are hitting harder in 1.153.

Still early though, only 48 days in. I am a Khergit at war with Swadians and Vaegirs -- I was very much surprised that the Vaegir mixed groups did much more damage than the Swadians.  I need to go capture some Vaegir territory and train some of the up to see what they can do on my side.


Argeus the Paladin

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Re: Vaegirs suck!
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2012, 04:10:41 AM »

... Aren't the top-tier Vaegir troops supposed to be shieldless? That's like their nation's entire war philosophy, besides laughing at marching in line.


NO, all Vargir infantry/cavalry from footman up should have a kite shield.

So far it appears they all get them now in sieges, and most of them have shields in field battles, though I did see a Horseman and a Knight without shields in my last field battle.

As for archery, they clearly made player archery easier. So far, it seems that bow and arrows are hitting harder in 1.153.

Still early though, only 48 days in. I am a Khergit at war with Swadians and Vaegirs -- I was very much surprised that the Vaegir mixed groups did much more damage than the Swadians.  I need to go capture some Vaegir territory and train some of the up to see what they can do on my side.

Most probably because Swadian anything except men-at-arms and knights and maybe, MAYBE Sergeants suck big time in field battles.