Poll

weapons when mounted?

bow and arrows+knightly arming sword/ elite scim + lance
3 (8.8%)
bow and arrows+knightly arming sword/ elite scim + shield
7 (20.6%)
bow and arrows+2h+lance+ extra quiver
5 (14.7%)
bow and arrows+ bastard + shield
5 (14.7%)
 2h+ shield + 1h +  lance
14 (41.2%)

Total Members Voted: 33

Author Topic: weapon of choice on horseback?  (Read 3104 times)

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Argeus the Paladin

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2012, 05:30:00 AM »
Isn't the Balanced Long Awlpike even faster, if you don't care for couching?

joaltmon

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2012, 01:14:15 PM »
do u guyz thinl that the reach of the heavy iron war axe can be compensated for when mounted?

DarkShogun417

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2012, 01:59:10 PM »
-.- voted for the bottom option because it didn't have bows.

Ivan Khan

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2012, 04:00:01 PM »
do u guyz thinl that the reach of the heavy iron war axe can be compensated for when mounted?

Sure. I use a Military Hammer and it is even shorter. I used a Heavy Iron War Axe for a short time and loved busting up shields. I would just make sure you invest in good armour and an armoured horse first you will be in reach of most weapons.

I found bumping the intended victim with your horse is great at throwing them off guard. Also, if you have a big shield, heard your victims into a circle by making slow left turns. Your shield will stop most of the damage, they get bunched up and can't use long weapons, it helps slip your weapon past their shields, and it herds them close for whacking -- you should be able to take out one with every swing this way.

And, for combat against other mounted reach is not an issue.

Ivan Khan

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2012, 05:03:38 PM »
Bored this morning so thought I would give you my thoughts on all three:


1. bow and arrows+knightly arming sword/ elite scim + lance
A Lance is superfluous if you are a horse archer. The bow has longer reach and is capable of multiple shots, and you can get the affect of your horses speed just as easily if you learn to do a ride by slash with the swords. With my high level horse archer in a flat out charge, I can take out 2-5 npcs/horses before contact and one or two more at contact with ride-by sword slashing. I can use a lance, but like thrown weapons it is just not worth taking up your slot. 

2. bow and arrows+knightly arming sword/ elite scim + shield
How I roll most of the time. Gives you protection from missiles and a long hard hitting weapon from the saddle. You will run out of arrows quickly. With a bag of 34 once you get powerful enough for one shot kills on most villians you can kill 25 with one bag. Half that if you are at two-shot level, if you are not at 2-shot kill level forget the bow unless you want to train with it. Not bad on foot if you lose your horse in a battle, but seriously hampered in sieges as the long swords will get hung up. When I have to use them in sieges I go with an overhead swing or stabbing with the arming sword.

3. bow and arrows+2h+extra quiver (sic?)
I do not advise it. On horse back only the Great Long Axe will out hit a Long Arming Sword and they all are so much slower. And, length beyond 105 does not seem to help much. If you want the extra arrows just leave the shield behind and go with the one-hander of your choice.

4. bow and arrows+ bastard + shield
NO. Unless you intend to lose your horse there is no reason to pick a bastard sword over a Long Arming Sword. Bastard swords only advantage is in foot melee, and then you would be better off with a true two hander.

5. 2h+ shield + 1h +  lance
See above for comment on lance. 2h with a shield can give you the protection of a 1h/shield combo with the hitting power of a 2h. But as I have said 2h on horseback are slow and weaker than a long arming sword. That 2h hitting power is only usable on foot, and frankly I do not lose my horse often enough for that to be an issue.


To sum up. Go with Balanced Arming Sword as the best all-around mounted melee weapon. If you want to cut harder and slash quicker go with an Elite Scimitar. If you want a piercing weapon use a Military Pick, though I like the blunt Military Hammer better (more prisoners)-- both will be the most effective against other well armoured mounted enemies (IE Swad Knight & Mamluke). I do not recommend axes on horse back, shields are just not a problem when I am mounted as you can counter them with tactics, but go one handed if you do want an axe. If you must have a 2h/polearm on horseback go with a Heavy Great Long Axe, they are the only 2h that can match the Long Arming Sword, and is simply awesome on foot.

As for extra bags of arrow, I carry two extra in my baggage. I only go with three bags of arrows when I am training or in siege defense (you will find loads of melee weapons and shields lying around). It is too hard to find a melee weapon on the battlefield when mounted, and you may get taken out by a sharpshooter or couched lance when you stop to pick on up. You can leave your shield behind and carry a second bag of arrows if you do not expect to see a lot of missile weapons. Beware of Jarids though, piercing thrown weapons are dangerous even in the hands of fairly lowbe npcs as are crossbows. As for Bows and Arrows they normally need to be in the hands of elite warriors before you have to worry, though I did get slaughtered once when I turned a corner into a host of forest bandits.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 05:09:28 PM by Ivan Khan »

Bobthehero

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2012, 05:42:37 PM »
Forgot to put my style, apparently.

Long arming sword, knightly heather shield, heavy lance and a dagger for looks.
I feel for you bro. I'm feeling for you. There, I felt for you. Hmm, nice muscles.
Touch my ass, I've been working on the glutes.  :wink:
Obviously we now must bow to the Penis Cloud God.

bakters

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2012, 07:43:20 PM »
3. bow and arrows+2h+extra quiver (sic?)
I do not advise it. On horse back only the Great Long Axe will out hit a Long Arming Sword and they all are so much slower. And, length beyond 105 does not seem to help much. If you want the extra arrows just leave the shield behind and go with the one-hander of your choice.

4. bow and arrows+ bastard + shield
NO. Unless you intend to lose your horse there is no reason to pick a bastard sword over a Long Arming Sword. Bastard swords only advantage is in foot melee, and then you would be better off with a true two hander.[...]
To sum up. Go with Balanced Arming Sword as the best all-around mounted melee weapon. If you want to cut harder and slash quicker go with an Elite Scimitar. If you want a piercing weapon use a Military Pick,
I just do not agree with You.  For high level archers I go with bastard and two packs of arrows, both in sieges and in field battles.  I need a deadly weapon to cut myself out of trouble if a bunch of enemies spawns around or similar crowd-control situations.  True two-handers suck at this, one handed weapon lacks the raw power, and strangely enough, I found out that I tend to survive better if I don't have a shield to hide behind (when being mobbed, that is), because I block less and hit more.  I never take three packs of arrows.  In hard siege defense I need to be able to cut down the crowd while waiting for reinforcements, in siege attack I need it for storming the keep. 

Also, early on a lance is useful.  Your bow is too weak to be a real killer against top level units.  Works nicely for skirmishing, but in tough battles you need some kills too.  I find a shield for an archer to be a wasted slot.  You almost never use it anyway, definitely not when shooting, and when you do use it, you probably should approach the enemy differently.  I carry it with me early on when fighting in villages, though.  Later on I just don't bother.

Strangely enough, I play the same way in WFaS now.  I only miss the bastard sword.  I could have trained myself in two-handers so much easier with them.

Ivan Khan

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2012, 09:54:28 PM »
3. bow and arrows+2h+extra quiver (sic?)
I do not advise it. On horse back only the Great Long Axe will out hit a Long Arming Sword and they all are so much slower. And, length beyond 105 does not seem to help much. If you want the extra arrows just leave the shield behind and go with the one-hander of your choice.

4. bow and arrows+ bastard + shield
NO. Unless you intend to lose your horse there is no reason to pick a bastard sword over a Long Arming Sword. Bastard swords only advantage is in foot melee, and then you would be better off with a true two hander.[...]
To sum up. Go with Balanced Arming Sword as the best all-around mounted melee weapon. If you want to cut harder and slash quicker go with an Elite Scimitar. If you want a piercing weapon use a Military Pick,
I just do not agree with You.  For high level archers I go with bastard and two packs of arrows, both in sieges and in field battles.  I need a deadly weapon to cut myself out of trouble if a bunch of enemies spawns around or similar crowd-control situations.  True two-handers suck at this, one handed weapon lacks the raw power, and strangely enough, I found out that I tend to survive better if I don't have a shield to hide behind (when being mobbed, that is), because I block less and hit more.  I never take three packs of arrows.  In hard siege defense I need to be able to cut down the crowd while waiting for reinforcements, in siege attack I need it for storming the keep. 

Also, early on a lance is useful.  Your bow is too weak to be a real killer against top level units.  Works nicely for skirmishing, but in tough battles you need some kills too.  I find a shield for an archer to be a wasted slot.  You almost never use it anyway, definitely not when shooting, and when you do use it, you probably should approach the enemy differently.  I carry it with me early on when fighting in villages, though.  Later on I just don't bother.

Strangely enough, I play the same way in WFaS now.  I only miss the bastard sword.  I could have trained myself in two-handers so much easier with them.

Numbers for long swords on horseback:

Long Arming Sword
33 cut 28 pierce
96 speed
105 length

Heavy Bastard Sword
24 cut 18 pierce
63 speed
105 length

Bastard Sword
23 cut 17 pierce
64 speed
101 length

Elite Scimitar
32 cut 0 pierce
100 speed
103 length

Remember the only differece between a 'bastard sword' and a true two-hander is you can actually use a shield, you receive the 2h -35% penalty on both. No time on hoseback is a bastard better, no way - no how - no when.

I agree with attacking in sieges, you need a melee weapon for the streets and especially the keep. I like a shield too though, once got shot down by Rhodok crossbowmen in a keep before I could reach them carrying a 2h axe. I regularly dump my shield and melee weapon in the 1st phase of sieges and pick-up 100 arrows from the dead though as it is so easy to find and pick up a melee weapon on foot.

As for blocking in melee, if you have a fast weapon there is no need to use your shield, shileds are mainly of benefit against missles in Warband. Though, if you have a slower melee weapon and a faster shield sometimes shield blocking helps.

As for a lance early, not if you want to be an archer. To be a horse archer takes a lot of investment. You need to build HA, PD and riding as high as you can. You also need to stick all your weapons points in archery until you can't anymore. Wasting points early on for more than one type of melee weapon is not the most productive. If you want to be a horse archer you should start from character build. Pick Hunter or Nomad, Steppe Child, Poacher, Revenge -- push your PD up to 5 and put all your points in archery. Sell your furs and buy the best bow you can find. Now go out and find looters to solo and train yourself up shooting them down with the bow (you should be able to 2-shot kill them with this build). Horse archer is probally the hardest type to train and you had best dedicate yourself to it early or you will never get there.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 09:59:44 PM by Ivan Khan »

Chaingun

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2012, 10:51:21 PM »
Most effective weapon on horseback [once you've practiced enough] against AI in terms of number of kills is a decent 1H sword + shield. By timing correctly you can kill even shielded enemies quickly (and thus at a high rate) by waiting with attacking until they release their block to try to attack. The shield means you can block incoming javs and other nasty stuff.

In addition to that I would take the bow if a HA character is what you're striving for (in that case, not equipping a shield for more arrows) is obviously a good idea.

Lance is easy but it takes too long time to massacre dumb AI forces.

But yeah, I think this like the 20th time I'm commenting on this kind of topic. ^^
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 10:56:57 PM by Chaingun »
@md

bakters

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2012, 11:29:49 PM »
Numbers for long swords on horseback:
For mounted use true one-handers always win, mostly with speed though, because raw damage isn't all that important.  Bastards are a compromise, which allow you to train and be truly effective once dismounted.
Quote
Remember the only differece between a 'bastard sword' and a true two-hander is you can actually use a shield,
I almost never do that.  I use bastards, because they are faster and more effective at face-hugging distances, hence better for crowd-control.
Quote
you receive the 2h -35% penalty on both. No time on hoseback is a bastard better, no way - no how - no when.
True two-handers don't work very well on horseback at all, and on foot I'd also prefer a bastard most of the time.  Extra reach doesn't buy you much, as you've correctly noted already.  True one-handers are better on horseback, sure, but they won't cut you out of the crowd once dismounted as effectively as a bastard without a shield, and sometimes even with it. 

(Besides, I'm not sure about the damage penalty.  Bastards "seem" to hit harder in one hand than true two-handers, so I don't exclude a possibility, that we do not understand fully how the game calculates damage.  Speed factors quite a lot into it, doesn't it?)
Quote
As for blocking in melee, if you have a fast weapon there is no need to use your shield, shileds are mainly of benefit against missles in Warband. Though, if you have a slower melee weapon and a faster shield sometimes shield blocking helps.
You can't block in two different directions, and AI is able to attack from all of them, because they merge into each other.  Hence when mobbed I tend to circle and spam fast attacks.  With decent proficiency it seems to work better than trying to fight with a shield.  They don't last all that long while constantly punded by an angry mob...
Quote
As for a lance early, not if you want to be an archer. To be a horse archer takes a lot of investment. You need to build HA, PD and riding as high as you can. You also need to stick all your weapons points in archery until you can't anymore.
Lance doesn't require any points into it to be deadly.  Archery grows fast with my style of play anyway, and this time around I didn't even pump it all that much.  Above 200 I don't see much difference anyway (finished at way over 400), and you'll get there quite fast without major sacrifices.  So I pumped crossbows and throwing, to make tournaments less frustrating and have more fun.
Quote
Horse archer is probally the hardest type to train and you had best dedicate yourself to it early or you will never get there.
I always played horse archers, with one exception, when I decided to try melee build (crossbow for sieges).  It was boring and I didn't finish the game.

Anyway, it's not as hard as you make it sound.  All it takes to pump up archery is to get a fast horse, circle the crowd counter-clockwise at full gallop and shoot until your run out of arrows.  Some of the shots are bound to hit someone, and the game thinks it's extremely difficult, so it gives you a lot of points.

Works perfectly against bandits in the early game.  You go first, at an angle on their left.  Once you hit some, they turn to face you.  Works especially well if you get behind them, so that your cavalry can hit their exposed backs.     

Ivan Khan

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2012, 07:26:55 AM »
(Besides, I'm not sure about the damage penalty.  Bastards "seem" to hit harder in one hand than true two-handers, so I don't exclude a possibility, that we do not understand fully how the game calculates damage.  Speed factors quite a lot into it, doesn't it?)


Yes, speed is important. It can be from multiple sources. If you have a long clear swing and hit with the tip of your sword, you will get more speed bonus. When your swing is stopped short on the short part of the blade you get a negative for speed (why long weapons can be so frustrating in close melee).

Then like lances there is also a bonus for your speed and the targets speed. Easiest place to see this effect is with a lance. You couch and hit some guy in the back who is traveling about the same speed and there is little damage -- both you  and target charging at each other head on - BANG!

But, this effect happens in other melee weapons as well. You can get the BANG affect with a slashing sword about as effectively as a couched lance.

The speed of the weapon affect is one reason I think a Balanced Elite Scim slashes harder than a Balance Long Arming Sword. Technically the LAS has 1 point more in cut, I think it has to be the speed making the difference, there the Scim is 4 points ahead. Though it could be that faster weapons are a little easier to hit on their sweet spot too. I think this is why your bastard sword does better than the slower two hander. I think this is why few people want a tempered sword, or even a Masterwork sword. Tempered is just not as good as you get no speed advantage and only one more damage point. Masterwork is kind of a push, you get 5 extra damage and 1 extra speed to a balanced swords 3 damage and 3 speed. Masterwork just is not worth the 5x as much.

I am pretty sure the 65% damage/speed applies to bastard swords (and the morningstar) heard it from many people and wiki sites and tested myself with my test character. Just try it yourself, take on looters -- try hitting from a stationary horse and see what your bastard sword does, then try it on foot (best done when your character is still relatively weak). On foot you will kill him with one stroke, in the saddle you will be taking a slow second swing.

Punishment

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2012, 07:31:47 AM »
I use whatever i feel like using.

No fun using the same stuff each time.

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2012, 10:42:18 AM »
You can thrust with lances too, you don't have to couch.  Balanced Light Lance is pretty quick for a lance

I'd second the suggestion of a Balanced Light Lance. The fastest lance available is more important than base damage numbers when you have horse speed and couching available.
Yeah, most of the time i have a balanced light lance on me, but sometimes i like to use the double sided lance. Its even faster, but very short. Fun to use when on foot though.

Ivan Khan

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2012, 01:24:17 PM »
I use whatever i feel like using.

No fun using the same stuff each time.

Now, that I do agree with. I actually have a character just for trying out different weapons, which I have about as much fun as trying to capture the whole map.

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Re: weapon of choice on horseback?
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2012, 01:50:37 PM »
For me as pure HA bow+arrows+arrows+arrows, and some more arrows in inventory.