Determinism

[rebelsquirrell]

So what do you people believe? Do we have free will? Or are all events the products of necessity with no other outcomes possible?

[Mage246]

Unable to determine with currently available data.

[rebelsquirrell]

Another joins me in the agnosticism closet. 

[Mage246]

Didn't say I was an agnostic. Simply that I understand the limits of my knowledge given the information available.

[rebelsquirrell]

Didn't say I was an agnostic. Simply that I understand the limits of my knowledge given the information available.

Which makes you a agnostic in regards to determinism.

Agnosticism is a position on knowledge and is not exclusive to God or religion. 

[Mage246]

Wouldn't say I have no beliefs there either. I was just pointing out the futility of having a belief about this and discussing it with others. It's not an argument that can go anywhere.

[ancalimon]

So what do you people believe? Do we have free will? Or are all events the products of necessity with no other outcomes possible?

Yes, yes.

Think of universe like a closed box replaying what already happened in the first place.

It's all about what time and especially volume-extent really is.

You are free to do whatever you like from your point of view. But you are not free to do whatever you like from a point of view outside the box.

It all comes to whether one thinks that there is an outside or one thinks that there is no outside. Since one can not know the answer to this question, most of you guys would call this faith while on the other hand, I would call this predetermined consequence and cause motive.

[Pjoo]

Hard Determinist. Universe that isn't subject to causality simply doesn't make sense to me. I can't say it really needs to or that I am 100% sure, just don't see much point in assuming otherwise. Can't really apply sense to universe I think makes none.

[rebelsquirrell]

Wouldn't say I have no beliefs there either. I was just pointing out the futility of having a belief about this and discussing it with others. It's not an argument that can go anywhere.

Agnostics may have beliefs. For instance, a agnostic theist may say he justifies a belief in a God by stating that a self necessitating substance(Base unite of the universe) is worthy of the title God even if that substance is not intelligent. However if he simultaneously  believes in the god of Abraham he may claim agnosticism on how this Allah thinks and interacts with the universe. He may then go on to use pragmatism to justify his belief in the intelligent God.

All beliefs are certain, but a agnostic acknowledges he does not have the ability to totally justify them.Bare in mind that one may only hold a agnosticism in one area and believe he can totally justify a belief in something else. (Ex. A man does not know if one can justify a belief in God but he is certain he can justify a belief in gravity)

[Ambalon]

So what do you people believe? Do we have free will? Or are all events the products of necessity with no other outcomes possible?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ0BP9JCz_I

[rebelsquirrell]

So what do you people believe? Do we have free will? Or are all events the products of necessity with no other outcomes possible?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ0BP9JCz_I

Im diggin the spazin at 1.25

[Mage246]

So what do you people believe? Do we have free will? Or are all events the products of necessity with no other outcomes possible?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ0BP9JCz_I

Unfortunately, it doesn't account for certain random or probability-based factors. You can run an identical experiment 1 trillion times and have it be identical in every way and you would still sometimes get a different result. Quantum indeterminancy, in other words.

[rebelsquirrell]

Question, supposed a perceive a candy bar and out of logical necessity I am compelled to make the decision to steal it. Even though I could not have made any other decision, I have willed to do as I will. Can that be called "free will"

[ancalimon]

Question, supposed a perceive a candy bar and out of logical necessity I am compelled to make the decision to steal it. Even though I could not have made any other decision, I have willed to do as I will. Can that be called "free will"

yep. It's free will... From your point view. Why would you care about any other point of views?

[Ambalon]

Question, supposed a perceive a candy bar and out of logical necessity I am compelled to make the decision to steal it. Even though I could not have made any other decision, I have willed to do as I will. Can that be called "free will"

Say what?