Archer in Vikingr; Problems & Solutions

[Æthelwulf]

honestly men, seems to look at a child discussion:
"I don't want to be killed from an arrow, from far away...."
"change the equipment of archers from 14 arrows to 1...."
"I'm not agree about hit on my shoes"

What damn it mean people pls....explane me.
An archer have to shoot from distance, and NOW have a really bad equipment for the melee. Moreover, when you are shooting u cannot see near you, and without friends you are DEAD.
if your intention is to DELETE the class that's the way.

Do you read?

Most of us have stated that we do want to be killed from far away, not from 2ft away as we drop our shield or in our feet.
Nobody has said to reduce arrow numbers, I actually believe it's been mentioned to increase them and their damage in some regards.
Taking an arrow to the foot should not hurt more than an arrow to the chest. It just shouldn't. If we had a stamina bar, maybe then it could reduce our movement speed but that's not possible and thus we have to balance a silly mechanic by increasing foot armour.

The "suggestion" for worse equipment in melee is to stop certain archer play styles, some of us like archers but we don't like how they are used. So if you reduce their melee effectiveness they are more likely to stick with a team or shield wall. They are more likely to loot weapons, thus sometimes loosing their equipment. We were discussing if making short spears the more prevalent archer weapon would be viable, so you have to run with your bow sheathed and leave your melee weapon at your feet as you fire, that way if you leg it you have no weapon save for a seax.

Nobody has said "omg delete archers" apart from some fools and if you even think we want that then you haven't read the thread are also a fool and shouldn't comment.

To Tom, we are not all like this I assure you. There are a flood of new players some would say like yourself and some of them are quite blatantly ragey. His comment was most likely due to the perceived attitude you displayed. You came across as if all this archery hate is down to you when it has been discussed countless times on these forums, usually by us chaps. I apologise on behalf of everyone involved and I would ask kindly that people stop throwing around personal insults. We are all people and adults I hope.

-Edit- Also my posting really fast walls of text whilst I get loads of warnings for people already posting is making me type a million mistakes.

[Tom426]

honestly men, seems to look at a child discussion:
"I don't want to be killed from an arrow, from far away...."
"change the equipment of archers from 14 arrows to 1...."
"I'm not agree about hit on my shoes"

What damn it mean people pls....explane me.
An archer have to shoot from distance, and NOW have a really bad equipment for the melee. Moreover, when you are shooting u cannot see near you, and without friends you are DEAD.
if your intention is to DELETE the class that's the way.

Do you read?



Most of us have stated that we do want to be killed from far away, not from 2ft away as we drop our shield or in our feet.
Nobody has said to reduce arrow numbers, I actually believe it's been mentioned to increase them and their damage in some regards.
Taking an arrow to the foot should not hurt more than an arrow to the chest. It just shouldn't. If we had a stamina bar, maybe then it could reduce our movement speed but that's not possible and thus we have to balance a silly mechanic by increasing foot armour.

The "suggestion" for worse equipment in melee is to stop certain archer play styles, some of us like archers but we don't like how they are used. So if you reduce their melee effectiveness they are more likely to stick with a team or shield wall. They are more likely to loot weapons, thus sometimes loosing their equipment. We were discussing if making short spears the more prevalent archer weapon would be viable, so you have to run with your bow sheathed and leave your melee weapon at your feet as you fire, that way if you leg it you have no weapon save for a seax.

Nobody has said "omg delete archers" apart from some fools and if you even think we want that then you haven't read the thread are also a fool and shouldn't comment.

To Tom, we are not all like this I assure you. There are a flood of new players some would say like yourself and some of them are quite blatantly ragey. His comment was most likely due to the perceived attitude you displayed. You came across as if all this archery hate is down to you when it has been discussed countless times on these forums, usually by us chaps. I apologise on behalf of everyone involved and I would ask kindly that people stop throwing around personal insults. We are all people and adults I hope.

-Edit- Also my posting really fast walls of text whilst I get loads of warnings for people already posting is making me type a million mistakes.

A big thankyou to you because to be honest, I was beginning to edge away from this community after the hostilities.

[Eiríkr Rauði]

That's great but can we get back on topic? Again; if you have nothing to contribute to the thread, don't post. Be constructive, we took the effort to map it out - your responses should be likewise.

[Æthelwulf]

No problem but please to avoid further problems lets keep our egos to a minimum, I have been around Vikingr for bloody ages and to be frank I don't remember you but I do remember millions of discussions about archery and every other thing under the sun. Hell I think it's all we did in the Lewes Fyrd. Also bear in mind it is only coming up again not because of you but because we have players again and we actually have the mod for the first time in months.

[STARik]

And remember, kids, the main reason why arrows were made so deadly - to get rid of hedgehog warriors full of arrows sticking out.

[Harkon Haakonson]

Ok, I realized this block of text would be more appropriate in this thread maybe, copy-pasta from Tugmundr's thread :

Right after crosshairs were added to Vikingr, shortly after the launch of the mod (1 year and 5 months ago?), I dedicated myself to archery and along with Smiley and Peohs (Peohs a little bit after, as far as I know) we were godly marksmen. I played archer almost exclusively for 1 month or more and if I was double teaming with Smiley, both as archers, we would easily decimate the majority of the enemy team, which was pretty fun but also felt pretty silly deep-down, I just didn't have the appreciation for what Vikingr was meant to be back then, but then I realized how stupid I was, since I could just go do that in Native, which caters to archers much more. Hell, I bet not more than a handful of people remember me as an archer, and I never play as one now because I disagree with the power of the role in this mod.

Honestly, only 1 archer per 15 players sounds good enough. In a big battle, say with 30 on each side, those 2 WILL BE a very powerful force if they have any experience, I have NO DOUBT about that.

[Æthelwulf]

And remember, kids, the main reason why arrows were made so deadly - to get rid of hedgehog warriors full of arrows sticking out.

But we're not disputing the damage done, we are disputing their use in relation to silly Mount and Blade mechanics. I would actually like to see em do more damage to certain armours and so on. I put a nice Rus arrow from a Rus bow into Rathos tunic covered chest from about 15ft the other day, the bugger survived and fought on. M&B is just silly we should all admit it and dream for the perfect game.

But yes, if nothing comes of this discussion I don't mind, it's a debate but I do like the talk of just making them less prevalent and support that wholly.

[Eiríkr Rauði]

It would be a marked improvement on two archers per every fourteen.

[STARik]

Ok, I realized this block of text would be more appropriate in this thread maybe, copy-pasta from Tugmundr's thread :

Right after crosshairs were added to Vikingr, shortly after the launch of the mod (1 year and 5 months ago?), I dedicated myself to archery and along with Smiley and Peohs (Peohs a little bit after, as far as I know) we were godly marksmen. I played archer almost exclusively for 1 month or more and if I was double teaming with Smiley, both as archers, we would easily decimate the majority of the enemy team, which was pretty fun but also felt pretty silly deep-down, I just didn't have the appreciation for what Vikingr was meant to be back then, but then I realized how stupid I was, since I could just go do that in Native, which caters to archers much more. Hell, I bet not more than a handful of people remember me as an archer, and I never play as one now because I disagree with the power of the role in this mod.

Honestly, only 1 archer per 15 players sounds good enough. In a big battle, say with 30 on each side, those 2 WILL BE a very powerful force if they have any experience, I have NO DOUBT about that.

Well in native you can only shoot shieldbearers from behind, while in vikingr u can do it form any side and in a very beatiful settings, dressed in a beatiful tunic

Seriously though I still think you all are bunch of whiners, not because I like archers or archery, which I do, but since early days of the mod and sissy double archer teams I didnt play as archer too often. Archers and horsemen are the salt and spice of the melee based mod without them being so irritating it would be silly shieldbashing all the time. Real dark age men didnt whine about ponies and bowbabies ruining their shieldhugging parties, they just killed people.

[Partizan_Rusi]

There is no point in reposting all previous topic and read all that textwall.
All is simple, devs reduce archerz accuracy - vikingor happy.

[Eiríkr Rauði]

That's still not much of an argument though, STARik. Throwing out the "whiners" tag doesn't do much use when we discussing mechanics within the mod.

Real dark age men also shit themselves when a man with a sword and shield were less then two metres away - do we see that here? No. The archer stands his ground and releases the arrow point-blank into the face. That sort of argument will never float here when we're talking in relative terms of Warband.

[hrotha]

And remember, kids, the main reason why arrows were made so deadly - to get rid of hedgehog warriors full of arrows sticking out.

There are historical accounts of warriors in mail resembling hedgehogs, so I'm not sure that'd be much of a problem with that. But regardless, I don't see many suggestions to lower their damage (perhaps against mail, but definitely not against tunics). Against a helmet, ideally they'd be deflected entirely, not stick out.

[Slytacular]

Rapier, the round shield design wasn't very effective to stop arrows in the first place; and you talk as if it was an impenetrable object. An archer can still shoot any exposed spot on a shielder, not to mention that arrowheads could still pass through a shield depending on the material and it's size, and the design of the arrow and it's material. The angle, power, and distance the arrow was shot from to the position as to whether the shielder was on a slope or not.

This could be bad examples, but in TV Shows, movies, and even in Mount&Blade, they feature arrowheads passing through the material of a shield. So if you are suggesting that archers are to be nerfed, then I suggest that a player should take damage from projectiles depending on the shield's resistance. That would be a fair trade.

The only suggestion I agree with archery is that accuracy should be slightly low. I do constantly become irritated with Native's archery that when I expose a body part for a milli-second nearby to an archer, an arrow hits me in the head.

[Avgvstvs]

honestly men, seems to look at a child discussion:
"I don't want to be killed from an arrow, from far away...."
"change the equipment of archers from 14 arrows to 1...."
"I'm not agree about hit on my shoes"

What damn it mean people pls....explane me.
An archer have to shoot from distance, and NOW have a really bad equipment for the melee. Moreover, when you are shooting u cannot see near you, and without friends you are DEAD.
if your intention is to DELETE the class that's the way.

Do you read?

Most of us have stated that we do want to be killed from far away, not from 2ft away as we drop our shield or in our feet.
Nobody has said to reduce arrow numbers, I actually believe it's been mentioned to increase them and their damage in some regards.
Taking an arrow to the foot should not hurt more than an arrow to the chest. It just shouldn't. If we had a stamina bar, maybe then it could reduce our movement speed but that's not possible and thus we have to balance a silly mechanic by increasing foot armour.

The "suggestion" for worse equipment in melee is to stop certain archer play styles, some of us like archers but we don't like how they are used. So if you reduce their melee effectiveness they are more likely to stick with a team or shield wall. They are more likely to loot weapons, thus sometimes loosing their equipment. We were discussing if making short spears the more prevalent archer weapon would be viable, so you have to run with your bow sheathed and leave your melee weapon at your feet as you fire, that way if you leg it you have no weapon save for a seax.

Nobody has said "omg delete archers" apart from some fools and if you even think we want that then you haven't read the thread are also a fool and shouldn't comment.

To Tom, we are not all like this I assure you. There are a flood of new players some would say like yourself and some of them are quite blatantly ragey. His comment was most likely due to the perceived attitude you displayed. You came across as if all this archery hate is down to you when it has been discussed countless times on these forums, usually by us chaps. I apologise on behalf of everyone involved and I would ask kindly that people stop throwing around personal insults. We are all people and adults I hope.

-Edit- Also my posting really fast walls of text whilst I get loads of warnings for people already posting is making me type a million mistakes.

Oh yes, I read...and I dont see any advice, but only people talking about the foot hits and headshots. where is the advices?? the only usefull advice until now was the "diminish of rate"

[hrotha]

Are you kidding? People have mentioned accuracy, rate of fire, protection from helmets, protection from armour, inability to move while aiming, worse melee weapons...