Author Topic: [2.53] Analysis: Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes  (Read 12634 times)

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eastpaw

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[All quantitative information here was drawn from Floris 2.53 (expanded troop tree) using Morgh's editor. The numbers should all be correct, but please do let me know if I have made a mistake anywhere.]

Here are my thoughts about the top tier troops each faction can field in each of 6 classes - foot archers, horse archers, heavy cavalry, light cavalry, offensive infantry, and defensive infantry.

These are merely my personal observations and analyses; I do not pretend to have all the answers. Therefore, please feel free to chime in! You can tell me that I'm wrong. I'll survive. I think. :mrgreen:

Notes on damage types
(B)lunt weapons (i) penetrate armour well, (ii) may crush through a block, and (iii) may cause a knockdown on a downswing.
(C)utting weapons do extra damage to lightly armoured targets.
(P)iercing damage penetrates armour well.

The following numerical analyses mostly ignore damage types as it would be pretty much impossible to determine a good weighting system to standardise the types against one another. This is because effects based on chance or player skill are fluid in effectiveness, because things change depending on the armour loadout of the enemy, and because it's just blasted hard to get universal agreement regarding the relative value of damage versus status effects.

Do look up the attached tables to see what damage types are available to each unit to help you get a more complete picture of how combat-effective it really is.

Part I: Foot archers

The primary purposes of the foot archer are to inflict heavy casualties before the enemy can even get close and to restrict the movement of enemy infantry. Most archers are poorly armoured and weak in close combat and consequently should be kept out of the fray either using an infantry (or, less commonly, mounted) screen or their own two legs.

In sieges, good archers can pick off the defenders on the battlements from range and kill with impunity once they are up on the walls firing into the courtyard. They are invaluable in siege defence, doing the majority of the damage until the attackers manage to take the walls (if they manage to do so).

Rankings are based first on ranged effectiveness and only second on melee survivability and other characteristics. Therefore, depending on terrain, army composition, and tactical needs, these rankings may not always be correct.

Swadian A7 Retinue Longbowman
3rd best bow, 2nd best bow skills; compared to the Vaegir A7, has significantly lower damage output. However, still a very strong archer and a little better in melee than the Vaegir (on paper). Fairly fast runner and shooter: on the field, may employ skirmishing tactics if infantry support is lacking. Important as Swadians lack good defensive infantry. This mobility advantage is negated in sieges, however.

Vaegir A7 Sokolinty Glaz
Strongest (but arguably only 2nd best) bow, best bow skills; far and away the best (bow) archer of all. Not very good in melee, however, though B 1H may cause occasional knockdowns; also, only average running speed. Best used as fixed artillery; station in fortifications or behind infantry screen and rain death on the enemy from afar. Brilliant when storming or defending castles.

Khergit A6 Kharvaach
Has probably the best bow (39 damage to Vaegir's 40, but speed of 97 instead of Vaegir's 79), but only decent bow skills. Mediocre swordsman, above-average armour. Slightly better than Swadian A7 (because of superior bow). Less effective in melee than the Swadian because of power (though armour is slightly better) and not as effective as a skirmisher because of running speed, but a really good unit especially considering this is an A6. That said, Khergit lack of infantry support troublesome. Shines in siege warfare.

Nord (i) A6 Ealdorman
High damage with throwing axes but ammo and range limited. Mediocre in melee. Fast runners perhaps best used as skirmishers: harass enemy forces with ranged attacks and finish off the badly wounded in melee. Also may take on role of chasing down routers since Nords lack light horse. Absolutely rubbish in sieges.

Nord (ii) A4 Bogsveigir
Bow is fast but weak. Low grade archer and swordsman. Poorly armoured. This is the best true ranged unit the Nords have, but it ranks far below the other factions' archers. Probably best used in garrison to shower arrows on besiegers. Poor accuracy so quite useless in castle assault.

Rhodok A7 Condottiero d'Assedio
Powerful but slow crossbow. Great armour and shield; good sword. Tough, fast runner, strong offensive and defensive melee combatant. Good against all foot soldiers and archers. Good as self-sufficient artillery in the field; can also serve as heavy infantry with a terrific ranged punch. Outstanding for both offensive and defensive sieges.

Sarranid A6 Silahtar
Decent bow but ranged skills mediocre. High damage (but slow and short) melee weapon, decent melee skills. Heavy armour; not a bad melee figher. Can serve as an average but hard-to-kill archer unit or as a decent offensive infantry unit with good ranged capabilities. Okay in siege offence but can present interesting option in siege defence: populate the walls only with these archers and allow them to switch to melee when necessary.

Sword Sisters A5 Virago
Weak bow, mediocre ranged ability. Short, fast, weak sword meant for close quarter fighting; poor melee skills. Armour also not great. However, has a pavise shield; may be useful in field defence against other archers but must be protected from infantry and cavalry by other troops. Perhaps second best (next to Rhodok A7) as ranged support in siege offence - relatively safe from return fire by defenders.

Mercenaries (i) A4 Armbrust Komtur
Crossbow slow but damaging; mediocre ranged skill. Fairly good shield, average armour; defensive 1H; good against other archers, can survive in melee for short while but needs protection for long haul. Okay in siege assault: good ranged defence and big damage, but let down by ranged ability. Also okay in castle defence.

Mercenaries (ii) A3 Armbrust Miliz
2nd best crossbow, surprisingly better than Merc A4's; slightly poorer ranged skill. Shield, armour of low quality; fragile and only self-sufficient against ranged foes. About same as Merc A4 in sieges. Cheaper than Merc A4 though and may be better choice therefore.

Rankings
#1 - Vaegir does high damage accurately. Not great in melee.
#2 - Khergit better than Swadian in ranged but weak in melee.
#3 - Swadian fast and damaging. Fair runner, able to skirmish.
#4 - Rhodok does huge damage very slowly. Excellent melee combatant; truly self-sufficient archer. Probably rank 1 in siege offence and defence.
#5 - Sarranid only average but also good in melee.
#6 - Sword Sister poor archer, but has pavise shield and may be #2 for castle assaults.
#7 - Mercenaries damaging but only moderately accurate.
#8 - Nords have 2 ranged options, neither of which is very strong.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 10:22:32 PM by eastpaw »

eastpaw

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Re: 2.53 Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2012, 12:09:19 AM »
Part II: Mounted archers
Mounted archers, like foot archers, are generally used either for offence or harassment. A third responsibility is chasing down escapees (though the light horseman is typically better suited for that). The advantages of the horse archer over his poorer cousin are the ability to reposition rapidly on the battlefield and the option of shooting on the move. The carrying capacity of the horse also allows many in this group to wear heavier armour.

They are however bigger targets for enemy marksmen when not moving; they therefore are not so well-served by an infantry cordon. Mounted archers do also tend to cost more, making it harder to field a large platoon of these. Since they lose their four-legged advantage in sieges, they tend to be only approximately as useful as foot archers there.

Rankings are based first on ranged effectiveness and mobility and only second on melee survivability and other characteristics. Therefore, depending on terrain, army composition, and tactical needs, these rankings may not always be correct.

Swadian C5 Hobilar
Good damage but short range, little ammo; poor ranged skills. Poor rider; horse fast but not agile. Does not do well at ranged harassment. Decent sword and melee skills; good armour for an archer; all weapons are one-handed, allowing shield to be deployed at all times. Actually light cavalry with ranged option. Perhaps best as anti-horse archer: pepper with darts while attempting to close to melee. Complete rubbish in sieges.

Vaegir H6 Voevoda
Good ranged skill, fairly good bow; slow but powerful shots. Decent melee skills slightly offset average sword. Armour mediocre, shield poor. Horse heavily armoured but not manoeuvrable; also, bow shots not that accurate when on the move. Good as mobile artillery platform and to chase down routers but does not do as well as skirmisher. Quite good in sieges because of high damage and because shooting speed matters less in that arena.

Khergit H7 Mandugai
Good fast bow, best archery skills; high damage with impressive rate of fire, hands down best mounted archer. Good sword and okay shield, great armour, quick but light strikes; good in melee against lightly armoured opponents but will have difficulty hurting tough foes. Slow armoured horse not meant for skirmishing but for large-group ride bys or direct combat; however, excellent riding skill ameliorates this weakness. Superb archery and good armour, surprisingly good in sieges. Toughness allows these to stand next to tanks in castle defence, replacing melee off-tanks (tough units that back up main tanks) with ranged ones.

Nords
Nord faction completely lacks horses.

Rhodok H5 Balestrieri
Crossbow does damage comparable to other factions' horsebows but is slow; archery skills unimpressive. Very poor armour and shield; horse fast but weak and not agile; axes powerful but slow; not good in either harassment or protracted melee. Two uses: (1) As alpha strike - ride fast to meet enemy first, unload a round of bolts, then ride back behind friendly lines. (2) As clean-up crew - chase down routers or injured single foes and hit them with crossbow bolt or slow-but-strong axe. Okay in defensive sieges, but poor armour makes this unit vulnerable in attack.

Sarranid H7 Iqta'dar
About as good as Vaegir H6 when stationary, much better when in motion; 2nd best horse archer. Much better in melee than Khergit H7: excellent weapon, armour, shield. Like Khergit, horse tough but slow, but high riding skill helpful. Also like Khergit, good at ride-by archery and direct combat; nowhere near as good as Khergit in mobile archery but has easier time against heavily armoured foes in melee. Good in sieges; lower accuracy and better armour compared to Khergit H7 make this unit more suited for defence than offence. Better off-tank than Khergit.

Sword Sisters H6 Black Widow
Fast, weak bow; okay ranged skills. Melee gear and skills nothing to write home about. Shield and shield skill best against projectiles. Horse weak and slow but highly agile. Best as ranged harasser: ride circles around everyone while lobbing shots. However, beware: horse not well-protected and can get downed by ranged attacks. Also, avoid getting forced into melee combat. Okay in sieges but as defender should try to stay out of melee.

Black Khergit Horseman
Same bow as Sword Sister H6; much better ranged skill. Defensive 1H supplement best armour and hardy shield; tough and accurate but not powerful; melee stats and equipment clearly for survival rather than damage, but highly resilient. Horse fast but neither tough nor agile; made for chases and ride-bys, not skirmishing. In sieges, excellent in either archer role and does very well as off-tank or second-group attacker. Even good as main tank - more than a match for most heavy infantry and comparable to heavy horse.

Rankings
#1 - Khergit clear winner. Low melee damage though.
#2 - Sarranid good archers even in motion. Also strong in melee.
#3 - Vaegir decent all around. Powerful but slow shots. Not so accurate when moving.
#4 - Black Khergit ridiculously hard to kill. However, ranged damage a bit lacking.
#5 - Sword Sister pretty much only good at harassment.
#6 - Rhodok limited to alpha strikes and clean-up.
#7 - Swadian more light cav with ranged option than actual mounted archer.
Unrepresented - Nords.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 07:19:22 PM by eastpaw »

eastpaw

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Re: 2.53 Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2012, 12:09:49 AM »
Part III: Heavy cavalry

These units are typically among the most heavily armoured troops on the battlefield. They can act as shock troops, crushing the enemy with powerful charges, or as melee powerhouses, absorbing and dishing out damage in close quarters. Though extreme speed and agility are not necessary attributes of the heavy horseman, most of these units are not exactly slow.

Heavy horsemen are often so heavily armed and armoured that they are deadly even when unhorsed. They therefore make good frontline attackers as well as defenders in castle battles.

Rankings are based first on alpha strike and CQC ability (damage, toughness, etc.) and only second on manoeuvrability and other characteristics. Therefore, depending on terrain, army composition, and tactical needs, these rankings may not always be correct.

Swadian C7 Baron Mineures
Polearm has good damage and fantastic reach; speed unimportant for charging; melee skills are unmatched. 1H also has damage and length, lacks speed; but shield fast, shield skill very high; among strongest in melee as well. When given room to charge, Swadian C7 is unparalleled offensive cavalry unit. Also excellent in both offensive and defensive melee.

Vaegir C7 Bogatyr
Polearm very fast, very damaging, can be swung, but somewhat short; decent for charging, but also good on foot. Melee skills with polearm excellent, so consider using spear as primary weapon for dismounted offence, anti-cavalry work, or siege defence. Sabre of high quality though, and is very good alternative especially for personal defence. Armour only slightly worse than Swadian C7's. Shield is somewhat better than Swadian's against projectiles, but somewhat less good (slower) against melee strikes. Good unit all around; plays second fiddle to Swadian and Sarranid but may be slightly superior in castle defence because of shorter lance.

Khergit C7 Cherbi
Worst polearm of all heavy cav; despite decent combat skills, may have more difficulty than other heavy cav in pulling off one-hit kills against tougher opponents. Horse and 1H truly excellent, however, and 1H and riding skill very high; regardless of opponent, best suited to charging and then switching immediately to melee. Shield and armour decent. Quite good as main tank or off-tank in castle defence, and as first or second wave in fortress assault.

Nords
Nord faction completely lacks horses.

Rhodok C5 Lanza Spezzata
Rhodok C5 polearm strong, long, quick, and capable of sweeping attacks; good for both charging and normal attack. However, this being a C5 unit, all skills are letdowns. Lousy armour, shield, and sword; will not fare well against other factions' heavy cav. Horse also slightly less well-armoured. Not all that good in sieges either. Really a light cav unit forced to fill the heavy cav hole.

Sarranid C7 Hasham
One of top 2 heavy cav units. Polearm essentially identical to Swadian C7's. Offensive and defensive abilities between Swadian and Vaegir. Best rider (9!) so able to return for a second charge more quickly and have easier time chasing down other horses. Number 1 in melee, with best 1H weapon and skill; also very good in sieges.

Sword Sisters (i) C6 Walkure
1H only, but secondary weapon Blunt, therefore anti-armour and useful for prisoner-taking. Primary weapon more powerful than other heavy cavs' melee weapons and also fast, but short, not suitable for ride-by attacks. Really meant for close quarter combat. However, armour, shield, and horse not good compared to other heavy cavs; poor Power Strike and Ironflesh too. Best used against foot soldiers and lighter cavalry. Against heavy cav, best to double-team and attack from two sides at once; B secondary very helpful here. Would have been good in fortress defence if a bit more resilient, but not a very good main tank as is and lacks the long weapon to be a good off-tank. Likewise, too squishy for first wave castle attack but may be okay as second or third wave attacker. Considering this is a C6 unit, it's pretty good.

Sword Sisters (ii) C6 Kenau
Almost identical to Walkure but swaps secondary mace for a quick but weak sword best used against light troops. Also has slightly faster and more agile horse.

Mercenaries C6 Hochmeister
Polearm relatively quick but neither long nor powerful; 1H fast but weak; skills-wise, built for accuracy and defence but has only average power. Top-notch armour though shield rather poor; Shield skill also low. Does not deliver a strong alpha strike or hit particularly hard close up but tough enough to take a beating. In sieges, okay as main tank though shield a little flimsy. Competent as off-tank but lacks decisive damage. May also act as second-line attacker.

Slaver Chief
Unusual unit mounted on elephant. Polearm not particularly long or poweful, but quick and Blunt, good against other heavy cav; however, nonexistent polearm skill (40 - mistake?) means it can only really be used for charging. 2H very powerful, short, slow; average skill; in melee, forget finesse, just use downward strikes to crush guard and knock down. Decent armour and shield; ridiculously tough but slow mount; meant for short charge and then close combat; will have hard time against skirmishing lighter horsemen. Probably absolutely fantastic against infantry and foot archers though. In sieges excellent as first attacker due to high damage against armour and as main tank due to toughness and damage. Not so good in other roles.

Rankings
#1 - Swadian, Sarranid; Swadian better in large open spaces, Sarranid better up close.
#2 - N.A.
#3 - Vaegir good all around.
#4 Mercenary has somewhat better armour than Khergit C7; slightly better at range and slightly less capable in melee; overall about the same as Khergit but only a C6 so cheaper. (Or do mercs cost more? Merc/Khergit ranking here pretty much down to price.)
#5 - Khergit almost as good as Sarranid up close, but has weak charge.
#6 - Slaver Chief has some big advantages but also very limited in some ways.
#7 - Sword Sister units meant for close combat only. Equipment and stats not that good.
#8 - Rhodok really light cav. Far outclassed by other factions' units.
Unplaced - Nords have no cav.

Note: Black Khergit Horsemen, though equipped with a bow, would do fairly well in some heavy cav roles. Lack of a big alpha strike or close-in damage though, so on the whole not a great choice for heavy cav.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 08:40:52 PM by eastpaw »

eastpaw

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Re: 2.53 Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 12:10:19 AM »
Part IV: Light cavalry

Light cavalry is composed of fast and agile but lightly armoured mounted units meant mainly for reconnaissance, skirmishing (harassment), chasing down or occupying skirmishers (particularly horse bowmen), and taking the fight to ranged opponents. They are also often used for screening (i.e., absorbing enemy alpha strike to allow own heavier units to get into position), for finishing off injured foes and pursuing routers, and as offensive cavalry against lower-tier units. Note that some light cav units pack a pretty big punch and should not be underestimated.

Because they lack the heavy armour of top tier infantry and heavy horsemen, light horse soldiers have a limited role in sieges. They are typically only good as second wave attackers, when the way is clear for them to rush the archers. In defence, they may act as bodyguards to ranged units.

Rankings are based on an only-somewhat-miscible concoction of damage, resilience, speed, and agility. Therefore, depending on terrain, army composition, and tactical needs, these rankings may not always be correct.

Swadian C6 Lancer
Polearm has fairly long reach but is weak; 1H fairly powerful but short and slow. Shield defensively mediocre but good for shield bash. Poor riding skill; may try to occupy enemy horse archers but will have difficulty catching up. Relatively tough and well-armoured; toughest horse. Can be used to screen other troops from a heavy cav charge, mixed with heavy cav to provide additional damage, or sent solo against less well-armoured foes. May fill tanking or first assault wave duties in a pinch.

Vaegir (i) C6 Elitniy Druzhinnik
Interesting maul primary; short but does massive Blunt damage; 1H poor though. Armour and shield top notch, horse very tough but slow. Abilities-wise biased towards power and resilience. Can really give heavily armoured foes trouble in-close; best used as offensive melee unit against heavy cav once they are pinned down by other units, or against heavy infantry. Slow horse not suitable for engaging skirmishers. Unit also able to perform first wave offensive infantry role, clearing a path with maul. 1H and shield combo mostly useful for siege defence (main tank), but will be outclassed by heavy cav or heavy infantry.

Vaegir (ii) C6 C6 Legkoy Vityas
Short, quick polearm; good damage and can be used in castle defence. Also armed with superior 2H sabre for ride-by attacks. Good melee skills. Tough and well armoured. Good charge/ride-by offensive unit able to hit as hard as most heavy cav; good in offence against pretty much anything short of heavy cav; skirmishers attacked by this unit should run for the hills. Quite good as off-tank garrison or second wave attacker.

Khergit (i) H6 Jurtchi
Actually a second-tier horse archer, but can serve as light cav. Decent bow and bow skills; has high Riding and Horse Archery so excellent at chasing down runners and at harassment. Mediocre melee skills offset by powerful 2H sword; decent armour; fairly good in the crunch, but since horse not that tough and real strength is in ranged combat, best to hit and run rather than stay in melee. Against other horse archers, may be best to push into melee; has the Riding skill to do it and the CQC damage to finish the job fast. Okay at screening, but lack of shield drops survivability against lancers and especially archers. Archery, good 2H, armour give this unit many options in sieges: defensive or offensive shooter, off-tank (switching between 2H and bow as necessary), member of first assault wave (firing arrows until in sword range).

Khergit (ii) C6 Keshig
Polearm not particularly good; 2H much better; mediocre armour and shield; high Riding skill and horse agility; therefore, best used for ride-by slashing. Excels in harassment and pursuit of horse archers and routers; not so good for screening and close quarter combat. Not so good in siege warfare but could be used as a suicide attacker in the first wave.

Nords
Nord faction completely lacks horses.

Rhodok C5 Lanza Spezzata
Long and fast polearm with decent damage; can be useful for castle defence behind off-tanks. 1H not that good, armour and shield terrible; not suited for protracted face-to-face battle. Horse very tough, hard to unhorse this unit; meant for charge-and-run against stationary opponents (harassment and opportunistic killing). Okay but not great as hunter of horse archers. Not very good in sieges except as support for off-tanks.

Sarranid (i) C6 Sekban
Rather good armour; shield better against arrows than blades. Relatively good stats. Good at weakening enemies with jarids and then riding in close for the coup de grace; should survive even if stuck in melee for a bit. Decent light cav with additional ranged option. Good riding skill and jarids; fearsome against horse archers. Blunt 1H also good for anti-armour duties and prisoner taking. Can take on main tanking or first assault responsibilities if better units not available.

Sarranid (ii) C6 Qilich Arslan
Impressive speed (horse 46 Riding 7!) and manoeuvrability (53!); longest polearm though damage lacking; 1H long and quick; great as scout, skirmisher, or chaser. Will absolutely destroy the poor horse bowman who crosses his path. Poor armour and shield; not so good as screen or in head-to-head combat. Very bad in all siege-related activities.

Sword Sisters C5 Schildjungfer
Primary 1H fast but short and weak; Blunt, so good for prisoner-taking especially when unit is used to chase down already-injured foes. Secondary 1H longer and does more damage against light armour and shields, but slow. Armour and shield average, horse fragile but fast. Fairly competent chaser of horse archers and injured knights.

Mercenaries C5 Kreuzritter
Meant for melee combat; short, fast weapons; able to take hits. Primary B 1H for anti-armour; move in close to prevent foe from using his (probably) longer and more damaging weapon; also good for prisoner-taking. Secondary 1H good against lightly armoured enemies. Melee skills well developed. Rather good armour and shield; horse tough. Riding skill makes up for horse slowness a little; still may have difficulty catching horse archers. Not fantastic for typical light cav work, but very good in the crunch.

Rankings
#1 - Sarranid light cav very strong. One option is standard light cav with good ranged attack, and other option is fleet as the wind and superior in anything but direct combat.
#2 - Khergit (ii) traditional light cav, but (i) exceptional in some light cav areas. Neither built for screening, but Khergit force doesn't really require that.
#3 - Sword Sister strong in close quarters but lacks range. Has remarkable speed; good for the chase.
#4 - Vaegir light cav are more like slightly less sturdy heavy cav: very tough, hard-hitting, rather slow. Two options: melee and charge specialists; former one too slow for many light horse duties though.
#5 - Mercenary also short ranged fighter. Lacks speed of Sword Sister, however. Better in melee but less capable at usual light cav duties.
#6 - Swadian light cav are very resilient. Offensive power leaves something to be desired, however, and too slow to do well against skirmishers.
#7 - Rhodok light cav is one-trick pony (sorry). Best used to sucker punch enemies already engaged by foot troops. May have trouble catching horse archers.
Unplaced - Nords unrepresented.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 09:12:19 PM by eastpaw »

eastpaw

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Re: 2.53 Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 12:10:47 AM »
Part V: Offensive infantry

The job of the offensive infantryman is to directly hurt the enemy in close combat. Deployed in either tight or loose formations depending on armour and shields, these soldiers take the fight to the enemy and are particularly devastating against enemy footmen and foot archers. These soldiers often carry powerful weapons meant to cut through flesh and steel alike.

Not all offensive infantry are well-armoured though and some may not be expected to survive battle. In large enough numbers, however, even the most lightly dressed shock troopers will frighten heavy horsemen: if they can keep the horseman in place for a bit, their heavy hits can quickly end the fight.

When besieging a castle, offensive foot soldiers are useful in the first wave to clear the path as rapidly as possible. More durable but less damaging infantry can follow behind to sweep out the more lightly armoured archers and reinforcements. In siege defence, a small number of these with long weapons standing to the side of the tanks can help whittle down the attacking forces.

Rankings are based first on damage potential and only second on toughness, vesatility and other characteristics. Therefore, depending on terrain, army composition, and tactical needs, these rankings may not always be correct.

Swadian I6 Highlander
2H powerful and long, decently fast; highest melee damage, one of the two best primaries. 1H fast but not great otherwise; better used for defence. Poorly armoured and has no shield; skills have strong offensive slant; able to dish out the hurt but unable to take it in return. Good in all situations but less useful in large open fields against cavalry or archers.

Vaegir I5 Druzhinnik Veteran
Able to throw knives before closing to melee, but offensive skills and equipment poor. Armour and shield of average quality. Not really suited for offence, better as defensive infantry. Not terribly good either in the field or at the castle walls.

Khergit I5 Yabagharu Morici
1H quick but light, better for defence. Polearm powerful but hard to use offensively except when supporting tanks in castle defence. Mediocre armour, shield, stats. Not the best shock trooper.

Nord I7 Vaeringi
1H solid weapon, if a bit short; deadly throwing axes useful to close distance; great at the ranges awkward for other infantry (very close up and just out of sword reach). Exceptional stats and armour, great shield. Offensively about as competent as Swadian I6, but much, much harder to kill, runs extremely fast, and able to fight at ranges other soldiers weak at. Excellent at siege warfare both as first attack wave that may survive the entire battle and as backup tank in defence.

Rhodok I6 Guardia Ducale
2H slightly behind Swadian I6's; fighting skill slightly better than Swadian's. 1H quite good all around, slightly makes up for lack of shield in defence; also, armour about as good as Nord I7's. Fast runner; able to quickly close in for the kill. Quite decent as first up the ladder in fort assault or as tank support in defence.

Sarranid I5 Yeniceri
Both 2H and 1H nothing to write home about; they are B weapons and capable of knocking down targets, but the job of the offensive soldier is to kill, not inconvenience. Power Strike decent at least. Other skills poor, armour pitiful, no shield. Essentially suicide troops. Send first over castle walls to quickly take out strongest defenders before dying horribly. May have trouble staying alive long enough to do damage in the field.

Sword Sisters I5 Schildmaid
Primary weapon does good damage with decent reach and speed. 1H strong, fast, short, good for fighting in tight quarters. Armour poor and shield only average, though quite good stats help. Competent offensive soldier without glaring weaknesses.

Mercenaries I5 Doppelsoldner
The other top-ranked primary weapon; hard-hitting, longer range than Swadian's though a little slower. Blunt 1H not that good; does too little damage to swap 2H for except in tight spaces. Mediocre armour and shield; shield fairly large and good against archers though - until it breaks (low shield HP and low Shield skill). Stats average but Power Strike a bit low. Quite good as off-tank and first attacker in sieges, though may die quite quickly.

Rankings
#1 - Nord does big damage at ranges difficult for other footmen; also very resilient. Unmatched in this category.
#2 - Rhodok edges out Swadian only slightly in offence but enhanced survivability and significantly faster movement make this a winner.
#3 - Swadian actually archetypal good offensive soldier - huge damage at cost of own safety.
#4 - Mercenary has good primary weapon but much less skilled than Swadian I6. However, has a shield and can stay healthy longer at cost of giving up first-class weapon for average one.
#5 - Sword Sister not quite damaging enough for offensive infantry but has no major problems.
#6 - Sarranid more damaging than Khergit and Vaegir but almost certain to die in battle.
#7 - Khergit does too little damage up close, better as defender. Useful in castle defence though.
#8 - Vaegir even poorer damage, reach, speed. Throwing skill somewhat useful but outclassed by other factions' offensive footmen.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 07:33:03 PM by eastpaw »

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Re: 2.53 Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2012, 12:11:12 AM »
Part VI: Defensive infantry

The defensive infantryman (or "tank" in modern gaming parlance) has one primary duty: to hold ground and prevent the enemy from passing him. To succeed in this, most tanks are heavily armoured and carry strong shields good against both bow and blade. They are extremely hard to kill and are also often capable of inflicting significant damage to the unwary. Most tanks are armed with both pole weapons and short weapons, the former effective against charging cavalry, the latter good in the short range.

In sieges, tanks are needed to keep an invading force from sticking their big, nasty pointies into the soft bellies of the allied bowmen. A successful tank is one that jams up the castle breach for a good long time, giving his bow-armed friends time to do their jobs. They are more limited in offence: if sent first into the fray, their lower damage output may mean the good guys stay in the line of fire for longer; they are therefore best used to soak up enemy arrows before the walls can be seized.

Rankings are based first on ability to take a punch and only second on damage, speed, manoeuvrability, and other characteristics. Therefore, depending on terrain, army composition, and tactical needs, these rankings may not always be correct.

Swadian I5 Sheriff
Polearm average, 1H poor, but armed with bow to weaken enemy before they get into melee range. Armour weak and stats poor; will not survive very long against strong opponents. Does not tank well in siege defence, but can be good off-tank with bow and polearm options. In attack, best as second wave; while waiting for way to clear, can add to arrow count though quite inaccurate.

Vaegir I5 Druzhinnik Veteran
Lousy 1H supplemented with throwing knives; though shield good, armour poor; defensive stats poor; will have major difficulty tanking heavy cav and will have hard fight against most heavy infantry (offensive or defensive). Not particularly good in sieges.

Khergit I5 Yabagharu Morici
Long, powerful polearm good against cavalry. 1H, armour, and shield mediocre; stats poor; not great against other infantry. Can do any siege infantry job but not good at any of them.

Nord I7 Aetheling
Polearm not the strongest, but quickness allows use in sieges; decent 1H. Melee backed up with powerful javelins. Armour and shield good. Great defensive and ranged stats. Good tank all around with ability to cause major hurt at medium range. Fast runner. Excellent in all infantry siege roles. Note that javelins have short range and few in number, so unit not quite able to replace archer in defence and completely unable to take attack archer's role. MosesZD says: If I'm on offense, conducting field operations and storming castles and cities, I want the Nords.   I need some tanking and they do a great job.   Plus those javelins help soften up charging/defending enemies as we close. OTOH, if I'm defending a city and I'm dealing with 1200+ enemies...   I like the Rhodoks because they last longer.

Rhodok I7 Condottiero
Impressive equipment and stats. Polearm long, strong, and quick; 1H above average; armour and shield first class; stats unmatched. High Athletics skills, able to reposition quickly. Head and shoulders above other tanks in the field in a defensive formation. Able to fill any infantry siege role admirably.

Sarranid I4 Al-Haqa
Polearm quick enough for offensive use; 1H also weak but quick. Terrible armour but shield good especially against projectiles. Poor stats. Okay against cavalry charges and ranged attackers but weak against all else. Damage-wise worse than Swadian I5 at range, better than Swadian up close. Only good as off-tank support or mop-up crew in sieges. Is an I4 unit though, so relatively cheap.

Sword Sisters I5 Schildmaid
1H fast but short; armour and shield below average. 2H powerful but not viable in primary tanking role. Stats mediocre although good with shield. Acceptable but unexciting tank. In sieges can take on any infantry role but not that good as main tank.

Mercenaries (i) I6 Landsknecht
Polearm most damaging primary among tanks, but slow and not particularly long. 1H fair defensive weapon. Above average armour and shield; shield particularly good against arrows. Good stats; tough, fast, and accurate. Good in all siege roles except first wave attacker.

Mercenaries (ii) I6 Grosskomtur
Practically the same stats and equipment loadout as Merc (i) but gives up polearm for a tougher shield. Not as good in stand-off against archers because shield smaller despite being hardier; this is a more aggressive tank meant for in-your-face action. Lack of long weapon restricts role as off-tank, but is very capable main tank. Lacks range and damage though; not that useful in siege attack.

Rankings
#1 - Rhodok best all-purpose tank by far.
#2 - Nord excellent tank with powerful ranged attack. Good contender for #1 especially for aggressive players who don't need "stationary" tanking.
#3 - Mercenary (i) good at holding position, (ii) better at charging in. Both strong tanks, but (i) is more versatile and (ii)'s tougher shield may not be that important except against axe-heavy forces (like the Nords).
#4 - Khergit good against cavalry charge only.
#5 - Sword Sister pretty much average but not good against cavalry charges.
#6 - Vaegir has inferior ranged option instead of polearm.
#7 - Sarranid poor tank but cheap.
#8 - Swadian poor tank though has interesting options as second-line attacker or defender in sieges.



Overview of factions
Looking at the rankings, we have the following faction characteristics:

Swadia
1 heavy cavalry
3 archer
3 offensive infantry
6 light cavalry
7 horse archer
8 defensive infantry
Good: heavy cavalry, archer, offensive infantry
Mediocre: light cavalry
Poor: horse archer, defensive infantry

Vaegirs
1 archer
3 horse archer
3 heavy cavalry
4 light cavalry
6 defensive infantry
8 offensive infantry
Good: archer, horse archer, heavy cavalry, light cavalry
Mediocre:
Poor:  defensive infantry, offensive infantry

Khergit
1 horse archer
2 archer
2 light cavalry
4 defensive infantry
5 heavy cavalry
7 offensive infantry
Good: horse archer, archer, light cavalry
Mediocre: defensive infantry, heavy cavalry
Poor: offensive infantry

Nord
1 offensive infantry
2 defensive infantry
8 archer
no horse archer
no heavy cavalry
no light cavalry
Good: offensive infantry, defensive infantry
Mediocre:
Poor: archer

Rhodoks
1 defensive infantry
2 offensive infantry
4 archer
6 horse archer
7 light cavalry
8 heavy cavalry
Good: defensive infantry, offensive infantry, archer
Mediocre:
Poor: horse archer, light cavalry, heavy cavalry

Sarranid
1 heavy cavalry
1 light cavalry
2 horse archer
5 archer
6 offensive infantry
7 defensive infantry
Good: heavy cavalry, light cavalry, horse archer
Mediocre: archer
Poor: offensive infantry, defensive infantry

Sword Sisters
3 light cavalry
5 offensive infantry
5 defensive infantry
5 horse archer
6 archer
7 heavy cavalry
Good: light cavalry
Mediocre: offensive infantry, defensive infantry, horse archer, archer (but may be good for siege offence), heavy cavalry
Poor:
DaElf says: I just re-read your summaries of the Cavalry forces, and I must say that the major thing that stood out to me was the fact that what isn't mentioned is how easily obtainable Sword Sister units such as the Kenau and Black Widows are compared to their Faction-based equivalents. You can hire 10+ of them at a time at around 600 denars each to have them fully-trained and ready to fight instantly, which simply can't be done with the Hashams or Mandugais of Calradia.

Mercenaries
3 defensive infantry
4 heavy cavalry
4 offensive infantry
5 light cavalry
7 archer
Good: defensive infantry, heavy cavalry
Mediocre: offensive infantry, light cavalry, horse archer, archer (but may be good for siege offence)
Poor:
DaElf says: I6 Landsknecht and Grosskomturs - Again, much easier to obtain good amounts of than I7 Aethelings or Condottieri.

Miscellaneous
4 Black Khergit horse archer
6 Slaver Chief heavy cavalry
Good: horse archer
Mediocre: heavy cavalry
Poor:

Of course, we're looking only at the top tier units in each faction and early-game and mid-game characteristics may be different.

As well, a single-rank summary discards a lot of information. For instance, we see that the Rhodoks are ranked 4th in foot archers. This might lead us to conclude that they don't have good ranged units, but the truth is that their ranged units are awesome in sieges and pretty good in the field. If nothing else, they are tough little buggers capable of going toe-to-toe with heavy infantry. So these numbers are useful merely as a first step and we'll need to dig a little deeper for the nuanced truth.

Afterword

So, that's it. It was a little tiring hammering this silly thing together, but it will have been worth if it helps even a few players with their faction/troop choices and tactical planning. I can't say it wasn't fun at all in any case.  :wink:

Every time I read through these 6 posts, however, I end up disagreeing with myself a little, forcing me to edit them (yet again). This tells me that my analyses here are less than 100% correct (but of course).

I am aware as well that I have only made comparisons across factions but not within factions. This is an issue because what holds true on one level may become less than sensible when we factor in another axis. Add in a third (interaction) axis and we may have a real problem.

Therefore, let me repeat my exhortation from the topmost post: if you have any criticisms, suggestions, or affirmations, please do post here and I'll see how I can best integrate your contribution(s) into this mini-project. You have my thanks in advance!

- eastpaw
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 09:13:34 PM by eastpaw »

ms_ts_2007

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Re: [2.53] Analysis: Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2012, 03:39:35 PM »
This is amazing, it should be finished and stickied !
Great work !

DaElf

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Re: [2.53] Analysis: Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2012, 04:26:39 PM »
Loving this so far; give this man (or woman) a medal! :)

SafetyTurtle

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Re: [2.53] Analysis: Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2012, 05:33:09 PM »
Hmm I'm wondering, why do you have the Vaegir archers under offensive and defensive inf?

That Lamer

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Re: [2.53] Analysis: Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2012, 05:48:02 PM »
Hmm I'm wondering, why do you have the Vaegir archers under offensive and defensive inf?
As just a guess, I would say its because those troops are the units in those factions with the best stats that are unmounted and have a sword. They just also happen to have a bow as well. You can always tell archers to hold fire and then charge them to have them engage melee.

@eastpaw, this is a really cool thread and I'd hoped someone would analyze units in this manner. Keep it up. :)

Cornuthaum

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Re: [2.53] Analysis: Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2012, 06:01:39 PM »
Hmm I'm wondering, why do you have the Vaegir archers under offensive and defensive inf?

Because those are copy-pastes from the first post, i.e. unfinished place-holders to ensure that the first X posts in the thread cover all the unit types available, to be finished at the OPs leisure. :)
"I haven't gotten around to violating you yet, muffin" is far from the same meaning as "You're safe, sweet-pea."

eastpaw

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Re: [2.53] Analysis: Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2012, 06:24:29 PM »
Thanks for the support, everyone. I'll see if I can't finish it tonight.

By the way, if you disagree with some of my choices or analyses, or if you have more ideas to add, please post here and I'll incorporate what you have to say into the main posts.

Hopefully, this will soon become useful enough for the Wiki.

Edit: And done! Boy, am I tired, lol! Time to sleep!
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 11:16:23 PM by eastpaw »

J Awesome

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Re: [2.53] Analysis: Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2012, 01:34:16 AM »
Wow, what a write-up!  I enjoyed reading it, but you seem to underestimate the troops with primary blunt damage (mostly the Vaegirs).  Those Inquisition Hammers on the A6-A7's have rearranged my bone structure so many times, I cannot count.
The blunt line for the Vaegir infantry has worked pretty well for me, albeit their armor kind of sucks.  Nothing like sending a swarm of Grids over the enemy walls to mash some skulls in.

Also, wouldn't the Swadian Hobilar be really more of a light cavalry than a horse archer?

eastpaw

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Re: [2.53] Analysis: Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2012, 01:53:52 AM »
Wow, what a write-up!  I enjoyed reading it, but you seem to underestimate the troops with primary blunt damage (mostly the Vaegirs).  Those Inquisition Hammers on the A6-A7's have rearranged my bone structure so many times, I cannot count.
The blunt line for the Vaegir infantry has worked pretty well for me, albeit their armor kind of sucks.  Nothing like sending a swarm of Grids over the enemy walls to mash some skulls in.

Glad you liked it. :)

Yeah, the problem with a strictly quantitative analysis is that we lose qualitative data. Since we're dealing with summaries, nuance goes out the window. In this case, it's possible to split the data into (for instance) "effectiveness vs. light troops" and "effectiveness vs. armoured troops", which would give blunt weapons their due (since lighter units tend to die quickly enough that status effects don't matter as much), but (a) I'd need to get my hands on hard numbers regarding how often B damage causes knockdown and guard crush, (b) the entire thing could become too large for humans to comfortably read. Doable though, certainly, but it would be a tricky trying to figure out how outright damage stacks against status effects.

Perhaps the best bet here would be to instead add some notes to the unit descriptions like "Does blunt damage; may knockdown/guard crush." Actually, the tables do show this information. This still leaves open the question of whether a B20 is better than a C24 though.

Any better ideas how to incorporate this info in the write-up, anyone?

Also, wouldn't the Swadian Hobilar be really more of a light cavalry than a horse archer?

Yep, it is, but (a) it's also the closest thing the Swadians have to a horse archer and (b) the Swadians have a better option for light horse. Dunno... does this make any sense?
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 02:02:01 AM by eastpaw »

ApHavoc642

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Re: [2.53] Analysis: Best troops of each faction in each of 6 classes
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2012, 01:56:22 AM »
Maybe I'm playing a different version (Expanded Troops) but where do the mercenaries fit in?
The Mercenary Grosskomturs and Mercenary Hochmeisters are beasts in my game.