Misc > The Sage's Guild - Historical Discussion
What could have made Napoleon's invasion of Russia work?
Argeus the Paladin:
We all know that Napoleon's invasion of Russia ended in disaster, owing to the Russian winter, scorched-earth tactic and Kutuzov. I do believe, however, that Napoleon himself made quite a few fatal mistakes in the campaign, not the least being the failure to adopt his force-march, foraging-dependent war methodology to the Russian climes.
The question for discussion here is, if you were in Napoleon's position at that time, what would you reckon be the best option to crack this nut? Of course there is always the "Do not touch Russia, ever" button. In extension, what would have made an invasion of Russia in early-modern-to-WW2-era work? I reckon this topic is at least worth some discussion.
So, discuss away!
Agovic:
Well, for one side, Napoleon had the best-equipped army, some of the finest generals
(click to show/hide)1) Pyotr Ivanovich Bagration - Russia
2) Napoleon Bonaparte - France
3) Petar I Petrovich-Njegos - Montenegro
4) Arthur W., Duke of Wellington - Britain
5) Joachim Murat - French-controlled Naples
6) Mikhail I. Kutuzov - Russia <he already by 1812 was too old for this kind of shit>
7) Blucher - Prussia
8 )Karl von Schwartzberg <sorry if spelled wrong, meant the Archduke Charles> - Austria
9) Michell Ney - France
10) Mikhail Bogdanovich Barklai de Tolli - Russia
11) Djordje Petrovich ( "Karageorge" ) - Serbia
12) Pajo Petrovich - Montenegro <He was killed in the great Battle of Kotor in 1806>
13) Admiral Senyanin - Russia
14) de-Soult - France
15) Leonty Leonitievich <Benningsen's Russian name> - Russia
On the other side, he only had medium ( not full ) support of the Poles, which were just a small territory around Warsaw, compared to the size of Russia, it was nothing.
The Russian Imperator had the support of a damned lot of people, almost uncountable, the entire European part of Russia...
Napoleon failed to defeat the Russians fully like he wanted at Borodino, he gets to Moscow, and than is informed of that coup done back in Paris, and sets to go back in late November, and we all know how harsh is the Russian winter in those parts..
The Russians had a damned good artillery, the 10 and 20-lb Unicorns were the best artillery ever made
Napoleon counted on the Prussians and Austrians helping more, yet they didn't.
Shortage of supplies, Napoleon didn't have it in mind that Russia doesn't have the advanced high-quality road network between all locations like Prussia and Austria do.
He came with like 35.000-50.000 horses, all of them had to be fed just like men
-Just imagine, giving a breakfast, lunch and dinner to ~300.000 living organisms ( ~250.000 men and ~50.000 horses )
-Russians burned down their earth and retreated until Napoleon could not bring resources and men in even a month, all the way to Moskva
-Kutuzov, Bagration, de-Tolly, the Imperial Family, and the rest, all gave their whole strength to destroy Napoleon
-Many Poles, Bavarians, Austrians, Prussians, Croats, etc. deserted from Napoleon's army.
-Borodino was a Phyric victory for Napoleon, he thought he destroyed the Russians, while their real attack and his defeat stood just 1 month away from he, he <luckily :D :D :D > failed to realise that...
That all, and 1 million reasons more answer the question " Why was Napoleon defeated in Russia" :D
Captured Joe:
IMHO:
-He should have stopped at Smolensk, giving his already exhausted army a break and make ready for winter.
OR:
-At Borodino, he could have destroyed the Russian army (IMO), if he had kept his cavalry more in reserve, and comitted his guard to the battle, as some generals urged him to.
--- Quote from: Agovic on May 31, 2012, 04:36:35 PM ---On the other side, he only had medium ( not full ) support of the Poles, which were just a small territory around Warsaw, compared to the size of Russia, it was nothing.
--- End quote ---
They supported him with a whole army corps, dude...
--- Quote ---Napoleon counted on the Prussians and Austrians helping more, yet they didn't.
--- End quote ---
For political reasons, Napoleon had decided their role in the campaign would be small. And the Austrians on his south flank scored some good victories against the Russians there.
--- Quote ---Many Poles, Bavarians, Austrians, Prussians, Croats, etc. deserted from Napoleon's army.
--- End quote ---
WTF
Austrians? They remained with their units, but many died from cold and sickness, just as the French & others.
Prussians? Were mostly kept out of the fighting, and kept together.
Poles were the most reliable troops in Boney's army, together with some of the Germans and the Swiss.
Bavarians? They and all the other Germans kept together mostly, but half of them died of sickness and lack of food before they reached Borodino.
The desertion rate in the foreign units weren't higher than in the French units, exept in the Napolitan units, which were really worthless.
Agovic:
--- Quote from: Captured Joe on May 31, 2012, 05:33:21 PM ---IMHO:
-He should have stopped at Smolensk, giving his already exhausted army a break and make ready for winter.
--- End quote ---
This.... Yet he'd probably get assassinated by someone in there..... Probably!
BenKenobi:
--- Quote from: Agovic on May 31, 2012, 04:36:35 PM --- (click to show/hide)1) Pyotr Ivanovich Bagration - Russia
2) Napoleon Bonaparte - France
3) Petar I Petrovich-Njegos - Montenegro
4) Arthur W., Duke of Wellington - Britain
5) Joachim Murat - French-controlled Naples
6) Mikhail I. Kutuzov - Russia <he already by 1812 was too old for this kind of shit>
7) Blucher - Prussia
8 )Karl von Schwartzberg <sorry if spelled wrong, meant the Archduke Charles> - Austria
9) Michell Ney - France
10) Mikhail Bogdanovich Barklai de Tolli - Russia
11) Djordje Petrovich ( "Karageorge" ) - Serbia
12) Pajo Petrovich - Montenegro <He was killed in the great Battle of Kotor in 1806>
13) Admiral Senyanin - Russia
14) de-Soult - France
15) Leonty Leonitievich <Benningsen's Russian name> - Russia
--- End quote ---
I am really curious what is that list based on and how connected it is with reality considering you fail to see that Archduke Charles (Karl von Österreich-Teschen) is different person than Karl von Schwarzenberg.
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