The State of Melee - Proposed Changes

[Kirbies]

Another thing.. In NW why do you pause a second before swinging when you use a weapon like a sword?

[Maboobs]

I know what you mean Kirbies, but it seems to happen randomly for me. Sometimes my sword will swing instantly, sometimes it will seem to pause 


I would just blame it on lag.

[DanAngleland]

Regarding stabs failing to pierce at close range, I think this only significantly applies to the overheads. It is still easy to use a lower stab to 1 hit kill at fairly close range. There should be a possbility of whiffing if you are right up against your opponent, I don't see the blade length as something that should be reversed to the MM way. Simply having mouse sensitivity jacked up and spinning around fast could make you deadly, since as soon as the bayonet nicked the coat of the enemy they were dead, whereas fighting without such gaminess left you at a disadvantage; like a human being trying to stab a revolving scythe which would hit you at the front or the flank depending on when you tried to get near them. I'm very glad such play is pretty much impossible in NW.

I personally prefer the melee in NW- you can avoid an enemy's stab sometimes, by strafing at the right time, yet turning is still very useful and hard to avoid. Just not impossible to avoid like it was in MM (without blocking). It was harder to see melee in MM as a representation of real fighting. I think NW makes combat better. Still, there do appear to be inconsistent outcomes in fights and it could be improved.

[Kirbies]

ah i see, seeing that i usualy play with 150+ ping (Dont know any good Melee NA regiments) it almost always happens to me.(Filthy American on EU regiment  )

[Maboobs]

Oh another thing I want is a bit more of a delay when you hit a successful block. As it is now, if you keep stabbing down the person who is blocking has to keep blocking until he gets a decent distance away, because if you release that block the attacker just has to spin slightly to make his thrust hit before yours, regardless if you spin or not. It doesn't seem to be a problem on the overheads, but correct me if I'm wrong. And as MaHuD says, slow down the feinting or something, it's how I get the majority of my kills, on new people it's simple feint from down to up and they die. On slightly more experienced people you can triple feint which in native would get you killed pretty easily but it won't happen here because it's a thrust

EDIT:

ah i see, seeing that i usualy play with 150+ ping (Dont know any good Melee NA regiments) it almost always happens to me.(Filthy American on EU regiment  )

Yeah there's your problem. You should notice it with thrusts as well.

[Kirbies]

Yeah, i get used to it though, just wish there was a melee NA regiment. RIght now it seems that the more aggressive player is the one that usually wins, attack attack is faster then block attack

[DarkOmega]

Yeah, i get used to it though, just wish there was a melee NA regiment. RIght now it seems that the more aggressive player is the one that usually wins, attack attack is faster then block attack

I feel your pain fighting with 150+ ping in American linebattles and the regiment i am in focuses more on melee than shooting whilst in linebattles but it  depends who is leading us.

[Kirbies]

Yeah..but only like 1/5 LBs we do are american

[Kazzan]

I suppose you get an additional stun if the opponent had his attack held in, 's why attack attack might be faster than block attack at times, though I've not noticed it.
I like the combat in NW more than MM, but the overhead is a bit wonky at times.

[Vorlen]

+1 to Hekko's post.

The melee in NW would be okay if we hadn't already had MM's, which was better.

In NW there is a complete lack of pace, it feels like you are watching two drunk guys flail at eachother.

[Reney]

We should make a steam group about that,

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ChangeNW

Hekko lets discuss about it. In Steam i mean.

[Hekko]

Dear Harry,

"Fixing the animation to be a proper representation of its length would be the best way to go. As for doing more damage when walking backwards, well that just sounds silly and I don't think its correct.. you weren't aiming for the head whilst moving backwards were you?"

Yeah, I was aiming at the torso deliberately. Also it was done to scarecrows so I'm not even sure if they have a head hitbox. Furthermore if you run forward and do both attacks to the torso you will find that the damage of the overhead is in the mid-high 70s where as the down stab is in the low 100s which suggests that speedbonuses are calculated differently because stats wise the attacks are the same.


"I've noticed this still works for me if they are going from a overhead to downstab feint, if its vice versa they can quickly pull the overhead stab faster than I can"

Funny, for me it's the other way around, if I go to chamber an overhead stab and the enemy switches down my goose is cooked where as when the enemy goes down to up I usually get him.

"Chambering overhead is useless because it is blockable, someone who doesn't even know what chambering is can essentially defend himself against it, which is not something I like. Chamber blocking downstabs isn't so different but because the overhead is so superior I just don't bother with it. I don't think turning speed has effected chamber blocking ability, I think the weapon length is a bigger factor."

Yeah, I first found out about blockable overheads in the beta when we were testing it

Dear Blue Spy,

"I'd like to weigh in on this that I don't see why riflemen should get the speed of their "club" style attacked nerfed when from my experience regardless of the speed of their attack an adept bayonet user will usually get a stab in and win the fight I've just never personally seen these rifle-butts of death in combat and they only ever seem to work against people that don't even attempt to block attacks in the first place."

I am not asking for the speed to be nerfed, I am just saying that the slow speed gives birth to incredibly high speedbonuses if I have understood the system right.



Another thing that struck me regarding stabs failing to pierce and overheads: if the overhead stab infact still is an overhead swing, but with the animation and hitbox of a stab that would explain some of the oddities with the overhead. An overhead swing gets it's hitbox already on the back swing, and remains out of the sweetspot all the way up and over the shoulder while it is in the sweetspot all the way down on the opposite side, which could explain why there are alot of early pokes as well as why it appears to hang (in conjunction with the bad hitbox).

Anyway, I shall start typing potential solutions and changes that I think will make melee more enjoyable.

[SeanBeansShako]

Might disagree with some things, but this is how a proposol for changes and balance discussion thread should look dammit.

[DarkOmega]

Chamber blocking downstabs isn't so different but because the overhead is so superior I just don't bother with it

If i understood this correctly i would have to say that i still think the down attack chamber is a huge part of the melee today already i have had about 7 instances were going for the chamber on the down attack has caused me to win a fight i should have lost.

[Hekko]

Added the section with proposed changes now, please check it out!