Author Topic: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming  (Read 1440 times)

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Kevlar

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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2012, 03:51:03 PM »
Ab-so-lute-ly retarded. It is bad and he should feel bad.

Some interesting points raised against this by the above poster  :roll:
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 03:54:27 PM by Kevlar »
Find a new avatar you are not scaring anyone.

now you just looking for trouble.

FrisianDude

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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2012, 04:04:07 PM »
Shut your nuts. No reason to try to present real points against something so stupid.
Nords ruled by King Ragnar, Khergits ruled by Sanjar Khan, Rhodoks ruled by King Graveth, Swadians ruled by King Harlaus, Vaegirs ruled by King Yaroglek. All those peoples live, fight, and die in the continent of Calradia. The Nords and Rhodoks field solely infantry and archers, the Swadians and Vaegirs have infantry, archers and cavalry and the Khergit field almost exclusively cavalry. No such things as "infarty" or "calvary" exist. Play Vikingr!

Anthropoid

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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2012, 05:57:03 PM »
Shut your nuts. No reason to try to present real points against something so stupid.

Fair enough. You do make a reasonable case for stupidity.
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FrisianDude

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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2012, 06:05:47 PM »
no u
Nords ruled by King Ragnar, Khergits ruled by Sanjar Khan, Rhodoks ruled by King Graveth, Swadians ruled by King Harlaus, Vaegirs ruled by King Yaroglek. All those peoples live, fight, and die in the continent of Calradia. The Nords and Rhodoks field solely infantry and archers, the Swadians and Vaegirs have infantry, archers and cavalry and the Khergit field almost exclusively cavalry. No such things as "infarty" or "calvary" exist. Play Vikingr!

Pillock

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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2012, 08:51:00 PM »
Because EVERYONE in first-world modern civilization is a smoking, drinking fat slob. Right. I'm only the last two, so ha!
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Ruthven

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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2012, 09:13:13 PM »
Agriculture is more fun, but it should eventually end in disaster. The ability to have an exponentially growing population in a limited space means we will eventually kill off every plant and animal that isn't absolutely necessary for our sustenance, and then of course disease&etc will be a much larger problem. Once the population gets too big for the earth to support (which is basically going on right now) either lots of people need to die, or we all will. Although I'm not saying either of those is a bad thing. Humans are interesting, but most of us are pretty terrible.





Anthropoid

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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2012, 09:26:08 PM »
Agriculture is more fun, but it should eventually end in disaster. The ability to have an exponentially growing population in a limited space means we will eventually kill off every plant and animal that isn't absolutely necessary for our sustenance, and then of course disease&etc will be a much larger problem. Once the population gets too big for the earth to support (which is basically going on right now) either lots of people need to die, or we all will. Although I'm not saying either of those is a bad thing. Humans are interesting, but most of us are pretty terrible.

Could not agree more.

And for those of you like Pillock who are not fat slob shams of humanity, I salute you! But yes, sadly you do seem to be in the minority. Civilization has simultaneously brought out our most marvelous and most pathetic potentials.
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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2012, 09:32:48 PM »
Agriculture is more fun, but it should eventually end in disaster. The ability to have an exponentially growing population in a limited space means we will eventually kill off every plant and animal that isn't absolutely necessary for our sustenance, and then of course disease&etc will be a much larger problem. Once the population gets too big for the earth to support (which is basically going on right now) either lots of people need to die, or we all will. Although I'm not saying either of those is a bad thing. Humans are interesting, but most of us are pretty terrible.

Two words:

Space. Colonisation.

**** yeah.


theAthenian

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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2012, 10:32:41 PM »
And for those of you like Pillock who are not fat slob shams of humanity, I salute you!
Can you please shut your mouth?

Pillock

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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2012, 11:53:10 PM »
And for those of you like Pillock who are not fat slob shams of humanity, I salute you!
Can you please shut your mouth?

Somebody did it for shkler.

Two words:

Space. Colonisation.

**** yeah.

Is there a single problem that SPACE cannot solve? Is there, I ask you? I say we load up the first shuttles right now. Should we send ourselves, or all the people we don't want?

Ooh, ooh, wait! I have an idea! We can launch the guy linked in the OP, and all of his supporters, and they can hunt-gather in SPACE!
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Oberyn

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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2012, 12:36:51 AM »
I enjoyed his Guns, Germs and Steel book, it had some interesting points. This is just neo-malthusian crap though (look at all the whining crybabies through recorded history who've been completely sure the entire planet would implode if only a few more thousand people were born). If the goal was to have a stagnant, ecologically stable population with no technological progress (because of very little or no food surplus), then yeah hunter-gathering forevah would've been totally cool. He even aknowledges it's a pipe dream since farming societies pushed out and replaced hunter gatherers the world over in a completely natural mechanism. 
And his comparison of early farming vs hunter-gatherer health is cute, but it kind of overlooks how farming societies also had better transmission of knowledge, not least because of writing which never evolved in a hunter-gatherer society, and obviously couldn't. Literally everything we can think of even tangientially related to "civilization" has it's origins in the division of labour possible because of food surpluses, including the scientists that are able to test out old desicated skeletons and mummies to see which were more healthy, or even how to determine what healthy is in the first place.

"Hunter-gatherers practiced the most successful and longest-lasting life style in human history." "24-hour clock on which one hour represents 100,000 years of real past time. If the history of the human race began at midnight, then we would now be almost at the end of our first day. We lived as hunter-gatherers for nearly the whole of that day, from midnight through dawn, noon, and sunset. Finally, at 11:54 p. m. we adopted agriculture."

Successful how? How the **** does he measure success? How can anyone objectively say the stagnant, both population and technology-wise, 90+ thousand years of the begining of our existence were more "successfull" than since the apparition of civilization? Especially since we have no records beyond legends and myths created by the subsequent civs, or the incomplete and partial guesses that can be made by archeologists? When our understanding and manipulation of the world around us has been growing crazily, exponentially, only the last few thousand years, not to mention the explosion since the industrial revolution?
It's the longest lasting? According to all his points the initial amoeba-like ancestors was the most "successfull" form humanity's genetic path has ever taken.


Mage246

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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2012, 12:37:51 AM »
It's funny that he brings up an archaeologist from another planet coming to Earth to examine our extinct civilization, but never quite connects the dots and figures out that this space archaeologist probably came from some agriculture-type civilization.
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Oberyn

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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2012, 12:50:32 AM »
Watched some documentary on this issue before. Time to try and find it and watch it again. Basic though we could progress as a civilization faster through agriculture.

Lol, trying to find the title and thought is was this :

 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel#section_1

Just self trolled myself.

Edit : Guess he changed his mind a bit, excerpt from the wiki

(click to show/hide)

In sum, it is difficult to imagine civilization and all its features having developed without agriculture, and towns/cities. So you basically got two choices:

Be an olympiad fitness hunter dude, living in a very warlike, nomadic, illiterate, extremely superstitious, but naturalistically-expert small group of mostly relatives and spend your whole life camping, engaging in song and dance around the campfire, and poking your wife in a hut 10feet away from everyone else in the group . . . probably die of an accident before the age of 20 but if not, pretty decent chance to live into your 60s and remain quite fit and increasingly influential and vital in your communit as you develop into group Elder.

Be a fat, smoking, alcoholic, neurotic, unhappy glorified peasant, living in a 'less warlike' but far-FAR more destructive, sedentary, highly literate, highly contentious and partisan and naturalistically-ignorant global overpopulation of big-brained ape infestation and spend your whole life feeling like you are a 'foreigner', engaging in forum trolling, obsessive compulsive disorders like: getting a degree, perfecting a trade and developing a profession, all the while fapping to internet porn . . . pretty damn low chance to die prior to 35, but if you do survive you almost certainly will die of heart disease or cancer for the miserable sedentary lifestyle you spend at your keyboard seeking some form of meaning via interactions with the other anonymous drones of the cyberscape.

The glorification of the "noble savage" ideal accompanied by vicious misanthropy is hilariously ironic, btw. Really smacks of some type of reverse eugenics, if that was a thing. The olympiad fitness physically and morally superior human vs the unfit degenerate. Oh, neo-malthusians, you so funnay.

Suspicious Pilgrim

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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2012, 10:43:25 AM »
I enjoyed watching the documentary version of his book Germs, Guns and Steel, but it's sort of sad to see he'd stoop so low.

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Re: Hunter gatherers vs early agriculture farming
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2012, 01:37:36 PM »
I enjoyed watching the documentary version of his book Germs, Guns and Steel, but it's sort of sad to see he'd stoop so low.

I read that as Germans, Guns and Steel 3 times, and thought it might be about world war 2. I was ***** disappointed.

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