What would a scholar life be like in Calradia ?

[Cernunos]

Do you think it could be possible to create a Scholar gameplay ?

And would it be like to be interesting ?

[TheFlyingFishey]

Yes, I think it would be very interesting to go from town to town and get 'contracts' or whatever to teach at the university for a few months which could just be a text based type of thing where you lecture students. Time should fast forward a few months though. Maybe in the distant future add some sort of "Education Level" meter to towns to show what percentage of the populace is literate and such; high education levels= richer town and more goods for sale.

[Cernunos]

And what about researching some gameplay improving secrets ? Going from long forgotten libraries to old ancient temples to try to learn some strange langages, and discover secrets ? What would these secrets be? I have some ideas, but bring them along. And some very gameplay changing secrets: powerful healing potions, vials of instantaneous resting, exploding powder, very warm furs, ever refilling water poteries (could fit well in some extreme weather gameplay...) teleporting stones, dark long forgotten cults about sacrificing prisonners and raiding villages or killing innocents to gain powers...

Open your mind, people, the MS is amazingly powerful...

[TheFlyingFishey]

  I love your imagination of all the places you can see this mod going! Maybe one of the secrets could be like: learning some ancient language after studying hieroglyphs for a long bit and then stumbling upon some ancient temple and finding a family tree of the rulers of a massive empire that once ruled Calradia with yourself being the heir to the throne. This could give you a massive Right to Rule bonus and maybe some honor too. Can't think of any others right now, but i'll keep this in mind

[EuchreJack]

From what I've read, steelworking was practically unknown in the time period that Mount & Blade is set in, but it was possible to perform with the tools they had.  So Steelworking would be a good idea.

Also, bronze was superior to the iron that was being used at the time, so bronzeworking might be also a good unlockable.  Imagine a whole set of Bronze equipment...pretty. 

Finally, we already have the strange set of equipment.  Instead of leaving it in random boxes around Calradia as currently, perhaps those items can be a reward for scholarly research.  And I would love for the strange set to be renamed Oriental equipment, or something similar.  Calradians aren't that primitive, especially if the items will be acquired by a scholar.

[Blaze]

Dunno about bronze, for personal equipment it's feasible, but for equipping armies wrought iron is far superior.

Then there's the actual process of making bronze, adding two new items (Copper and Tin bars) with no use other than alloying wouldn't work very well; unless we're going to add something silly like "Bronze Ore". I suppose you could make copper equipment, but it would be vastly inferior to the current and readily available iron equipment; unless you're willing to knock back the general timeline a few hundred years.

[EuchreJack]

First, I was thinking Bronze as personal/companion equipment.  In this era, it is the stuff of officers, not soldiers (also confired by the below link).  If I recall correctly, there are a few sagas from the era about heros using bronze equipment as opposed to the iron that was common.

Second, after reading this wikiarticle on bronze, I indeed think that copper and tin should be added as tradable or minable items.  It was the rarety of these items in the same location that lead to it's disuse.  But if we're nearing the item limit, then only adding bronze as a trade good is acceptable.  Perhaps it is sold from some location that is unlocked through scholarly research.

Third, I'd suggest the player should be able to find their first Bronze Breastplate.  Unlike iron, bronze does not rust, so pieces can recovered and made usable even if ancient.

Fourth, this wikiarticle documents steel as being uses in the era in question, and being far superior to bronze and iron.  So the player should be able to pursue both steel and bronze, with bronze being easier to learn and the ingredients for steel being easier to find.

[Blaze]

I have no issue with adding new items, but my reason for avoiding them is simple.

I cannot Art, and I don't know how well Cernunos can Art. Anyone can code items in with via text file or editing tool, but making renders for them is another thing entirely; particularly items for use in battle.

[Cernunos]

How could a research gameplay be organized? I am really wondering how to make this gameplay work.

[Blaze]

What did you have in mind? I mean, I can think up a system where research and stuff can be done to back up other skills, unlocking recipes, increases success rates, add to options in battle, an Darklands-esque alchemy system, buttering up lords to access secret vault of noble family secrets, harness the power of Ye Olde Artifact of Doom, etc. But in the end M&B is about combat, trying to create a style of play that doesn't have combat in it may not be in the mod's best interest.

[Cernunos]

Bring it on, that's exactly what I have in mind. There are thousands of great mod adding piles of new shiny armors and weapons in new historical time settings for M&B. That's not what rigale is about. Rigale is not about combat, Rigale is about adventuring, discovering, variety. I always felt the basic M&B gameplay was great, but so boring... I would love for the player to make some great interesting careers without drawing his sword.

I am an old school gamer ( a "pong" and MERP/Cthulhu kind of old school gamer), I like games to be deep, I like to always discover new things when I play, not discover everythings there is to discover in the first ten minutes of play, then, either try to find a better loot, or rinse and repeat...

As for the mod's best interest, about 8-10 ppl show there interest here. That's an old rant of mine, I am used to ppl not being really interested in my mods (I have one for CIV4, and my MAJOR MOD, "frontieres", for NWN2), but in the end, I mod for the pleasure of creating a world I would like to play into, not for others.

And I don't care about sword or armor skins, if there is no new gameplay/effect behind.

[Master of Orion]

Dear Cernunos,
 
You have a great and interesting ideas.
Indeed, research gameplay in snadbox mode has not been yet realized in any game that i know off.

What is the problem here?  - problem is that it is very broad topic which has lots of small details.
And main point is that its hard to define the mechanics of this gameplay.

Look at combat - mechanics is obvious - its a move, so in the gameplay we mimic it by pressing the keyboard or moving mouse so its possible for easy implementation.
Look at science research - what is the fundamental real world action here? - well its some sort of creativity, you suddenly got some idea or interest which you have to realize - from here we can deduce that only that first straightforward implementation of research gameplay is by getting lots of special events (ideas, interests) and later on trying to relize them by doing some quest-like things. Actually its a rather deep question interconnected with character creation and stats. For example explorer can study himself - so in this case he actually does not know he's stats or abilities and the whole point is to discover what are your true abilities and stats and not just read them off the stat screen. Also stat improvements can be non linear for example you have to do DIFFERENT things to raise the skill from 1 to 2 from 2 to 3 and so on.

What is the place of researcher in the game world? - well, he can be military advisor, healer, siege equipment constructor (like ship constructor in space games , Master of Orion and so on), armor constructor, agriculture scientists advising on what to grow and which animals to use, he can be geneticist studying different animals and for example providing better horses for the state or better cows (dogs and so on). Another thing he can be astronom and astrologist studying skies and predicting important events or just giving people advices on the ground of star knowledge (lors come to him to seek good times for starting a war getting married and so on). He can be a tool disigner trying to improve tools.

This is one thing. Another thing is feeling of adventure and wondering  - here one thing i see is a great traveler path,
so he tries to reach distant civilizations and forgotten temples which be default it very hard!, because you put in your mode good idea of realistic weather and travel conditions so in this case the path of archeologist or monk will become a true path of travel!, so main challenge in game becomes travel itself!

Actually if you look at game world as we know it know there is not single game where the traveling itself would the the main point of the game. It's always too easy too straightforward and too broing since game world is finite.

I would be glad to see if you can realize a real gameplay challange by sole means of traveling (you are already doing that to some extent). Then reaching the great wall of china or pyramids will be a great deal for our computer character.

Dont listen what other people say MB is not just about fighting its about everything what can be done in 3D.

Thank you for thinking about this message.

[arthoz]

Bring it on, that's exactly what I have in mind. There are thousands of great mod adding piles of new shiny armors and weapons in new historical time settings for M&B. That's not what rigale is about. Rigale is not about combat, Rigale is about adventuring, discovering, variety. I always felt the basic M&B gameplay was great, but so boring... I would love for the player to make some great interesting careers without drawing his sword.

I am an old school gamer ( a "pong" and MERP/Cthulhu kind of old school gamer), I like games to be deep, I like to always discover new things when I play, not discover everythings there is to discover in the first ten minutes of play, then, either try to find a better loot, or rinse and repeat...

As for the mod's best interest, about 8-10 ppl show there interest here. That's an old rant of mine, I am used to ppl not being really interested in my mods (I have one for CIV4, and my MAJOR MOD, "frontieres", for NWN2), but in the end, I mod for the pleasure of creating a world I would like to play into, not for others.

And I don't care about sword or armor skins, if there is no new gameplay/effect behind.

I share you passion but not your skills...yeah I think the same thing too about warband...all fight and no story, it makes you feel like walking down the streets and passing by a lot of amazing people but you never get the chance to get to know them personally...

Even the so called legendary Final Fantasy series over time becomes tasteless...The only game that had lasting impression on me are the Suikoden series...along with kingdom Hearts...why? If you flesh them up with deep stories, moral choices that could tear your own heart to decide it and you travel and fight for the purpose of a questing relationship with your companions not just as followers but as friends who interact with you...it'll be so memorable that years afterwards you might at some nights dreamed of it...or some normal event in real life reminded you of the game adventures or fight that you have...of all those who hated you or loved you or died in sacrificed to aid you...in short it becomes in some way alive...the warband Light&Darkness - Heroes of Calradia mod seem to have achieved this to some degree...

You know, sometimes I felt like crying at the end of a suikoden end game where it listed what happened to all the characters/companion that were involved in the game...where they went, what they did afterwards, their achievements, did they got married or open a shop or go on a crusade of their own, start a kingdom...so on and so forth feels like having a real life friend...yes Master of Orion...Suikoden is a game that to me the journey is everything...in every series you'll meet or hear mention of heroes/companion from previous series and you'd say to yourself...hey I know that guy and it's good to hear that he did alright in the end...

But most of all I wish there's an easy way to customize a mod to my own taste...make something like a basic upgrade able or in other word pimp it up as you like...for example you want diplomacy...paste certain files...want siege pack...paste certain files...want extra companion with background stories/quests...paste certain files...want battle formations or pre-battle order...paste certain files...want to add a storyline/quest/quest scene/dialogs/npcs...paste files of use something like TweakMB...

Yeah, I wish there's an easy way for me to add spice to the game...also was hoping to see what's your mod is all about once I've downloaded it and got the time to play...rather than fighting at the front in wars...sometimes I wish there's an option for me to travel around doing small insignificant stuff yet cause great impact like ensuring the survival of a weak and near defeat faction...or suddenly found myself a king...triggering an outside invasion...starting a famine/plague...an economic downturn or inflation...or anything our minds could think off... just like Blaze said...other ways you play instead of just fighting...

So not only I laud and thank you on your effort to make this game deeper...but maybe you could provide something that we non-modders could use as a tool to put our ideas into it too...I know there are tutorials but doing technical stuff sort of cause my creativity to dry up...you know the old saying give a man a fire you keep him warm for a day...put a man on fire....

I don't have time to play, neither much time to learn modding with all the stuff I need to do in real life...not to mention my computer skill...let's just say if my computer skills is like that of a surgeon...I'd be no where near as a coroner, much better off as a butcher...