Upper-class people=douches for real?

[Tibertus]

First, was a joke. Second, I honestly don't think that if someone is genuinely working hard that they will have to remain on welfare or foodstamps. What people seem to consider working hard now a days is 40 hours a week, which is barely full time employment. If you're on minimum wage, work 60 hours a week, it's not impossible, or even that hard. When you have to wake up at 0400 in the morning and don't get back home for  16 hours, then you can complain about it being hard work. I've been doing that at least two days out of the week for the last three years and the other four days I was getting home after 12 hours. If you can't find a job, I understand that it can be hard these days, but keep ******** looking, you're not above mopping floors. If you can't get more hours, continue bugging your boss until you get them and volunteer to cover for your fellow employees any time one of them wants to take time off or misses work. Granted, this is more advice for families with no kids, or one kid tops. After that, you're fucked, should have worn a condom.

[Adorno]

... What people seem to consider working hard now a days is 40 hours a week, which is barely full time employment...

You need to get some unions and proper working conditions, whereever you're from.

[Tibertus]

What? You really consider 40 hours a week of work to be too much?

[Kleidophoros]

Not too much, it's the modern take on full time employment for a white collar type.
Blue collar type, at least here, gets to work 45 hours a week.

[Tibertus]

White collar types, in the US at least, really do work a lot of hours per week. Many corporate culture tends to emphasize performance and working extra hours as a normality. If you're not in the office after hours, you're behind the power curve. And the thing is, if you're working extra hours, you don't get overtime pay or even normal pay for your extra time, you just get to keep your job in a competitive and tough job market.

[Kleidophoros]

Yeah sure, I am talking about the norm here. And government jobs. Private business is another business sadly.
Yet again it is related to Adorno's suggestion; if you are forced to work overtime with no extra pay then you might need unions and shit.

[Adorno]

Exactly.

[Overlord-]

I'm a part of upper class and I consider myself to be quite well-mannered. I guess the survey could apply to people who just inherit their wealth and have never actually worked.

[Ambalon]

What? You really consider 40 hours a week of work to be too much?

Average here seems to be at around 50 hours a week. People who have it bad only manage to get some 6 hours of sleep. On a good day.

Second, I honestly don't think that if someone is genuinely working hard that they will have to remain on welfare or foodstamps.

Oooh, this.
Grandpa was poor as **** and couldn't afford books for studying. He had to write his stuff down and study using the paper bag that came with bread back in the day. Managed to get into medicine and afford pa' some decent studying.

[SacredStoneHead]

Oooh, this.
Grandpa was poor as **** and couldn't afford books for studying. He had to write his stuff down and study using the paper bag that came with bread back in the day. Managed to get into medicine and afford pa' some decent studying.

Not entirely disagreeing with you, but I think in grandpa's time there were not so many graduates, much less competition and such.

Nowadays it would be harder, I guess.

Most of the proeminent people in Santa Catarina were poor as ****s when they came from Germany/Italy, and rose through hard work, yes, but in a time where there was not much competition (and China wasn't ******** with our industry, anyway ).

[Ambalon]

Not entirely disagreeing with you, but I think in grandpa's time there were not so many graduates, much less competition and such.

Wouldn't that point out exactly that it was a privilege to get to be a graduate?
Worth noting, too, that back then social mobility was much, much lower than it is now. What with our D and E classes getting smaller and smaller and the C and B classes getting themselves some good thickening.

[SacredStoneHead]

Wouldn't that point out exactly that it was a privilege to get to be a graduate?

Yes, nowadays having a graduation in anything don't count as much, that's exactly what I was pointing out.

But it's easier to achieve higher education degrees, so that pretty much balance it a bit.

If you had a medicine graduation back in the 1950's in a middle-sized city you'll got plenty of work, nowadays you'll need to specialize in something before getting the same work quota.

Anyway, we got some huge class mobility because we had some dormant potential unexplored by governments pre-2002, and this will not go on forever.

[Ambalon]

Which would point out it was harder then. Sure, there's more competition now, but just since there are (proportionately, specially) more people with 3rd degree education, having this much instruction isn't that much of an achievement.

Reminds me of my other gramps' story about how when he did the vestibular for getting into law school only half the class got filled because the rest of the people didn't achieve the minimum grade. Mind you, this was in the 40's.

If you had a medicine graduation back in the 1950's in a middle-sized city you'll got plenty of work, nowadays you'll need to specialize in something before getting the same work quota.

Precisely because everyone and their dog can become a medic now.

[SacredStoneHead]

Which would point out it was harder then. Sure, there's more competition now, but just since there are (proportionately, specially) more people with 3rd degree education, having this much instruction isn't that much of an achievement.

Past:

-Harder to get to the university;
-More jobs for low degree graduates;
-Low degree graduates gained proportionally more money than today;
-Life costs = ridiculously low compared with today's.

Now:

-Any halfwit can pass the vestibular for some courses, but being admitted in Medicine, Mechanical Engineering or Automation is very hard (you'll not earn good salaries if you're a graduate in Social Sciences, anyway);
-Low degree graduates need to continue study for more 4/5 years to earn some high end jobs (or be innovative, by the way, but it holds for past generations too);
-Low degree graduates earn shit as payment today;
-Life costs = way higher than ever.

See, I still think a poor dude nowadays is more fucked than before.

But everything depends hardly on the situation, so then let me reinforce that I don't disagree with you either.

Precisely because everyone and their dog can become a medic now.

That's because less people are bare-foot poor today.

P.S.: You're ninja'd-ing me all the time with your edits, dammit 

[Fooshie]

If you had a medicine graduation back in the 1950's in a middle-sized city you'll got plenty of work, nowadays you'll need to specialize in something before getting the same work quota.

Precisely because everyone and their dog can become a medic now.

That's bullshit and you know it; In Germany you need a near perfect grade to study medicine and you have 4 chances to repeat any exam, with 1 massive exam after 3 years with only 3 attempts. The attrition rate in medicine is extremely high.