Author Topic: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!  (Read 1441 times)

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Articulo34

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Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« on: May 06, 2012, 10:59:38 AM »
I have always liked the Haelmarians. In my opinion they have one of the most balanced troop tree in the game. They don´t excel at anything but they don´t have weak points either. What bothered me was the fact that, to make the best of them, it required too much micromanagement, and I´ll explain what I mean.

Their pikemen are really good, not only to stop cavalry but also against infantry. But like any pikemen, they are extremely vulnerable to ranged units. Through many battles I´ve seen them piling up casualties, and I don´t like to lose that many men. I´ve tried to form them along musketeers and colonials, but the Warband engine, even though they form a single line, keeps them separated which prevents them from really supporting each other. I tried to merge them through positioning and, while it works, not only it takes too much time to do so properly but it´s impossible if the AI charges from the beginning.

Then I realized that, among musketeers, there was one unit that was quite capable of fending themselves in melee and I wasn´t using as ranged. The nordmen. So after a bloody battle I went to Sveavald and hired 40 nord infantry, trained them to musketeers and set them as infantry. What a difference!

I found a small army of Vaegirs (barely 300) trying to burn Norrkop, I let them do it (I didn´t want to engage them in a village scene) and then when they move to the next I attack. I formed the troops with my 20 haelmarian musketeers along several colonial regulars at the top of a hill,  the nord pikemen (25) and musketeers (15) in between and 20 colonial dragoons on the flank.
The Vaegirs did the usual "move ahead and to the right" attack and their first wave was tore appart by gunfire (half of them died, the other half routed). The second wave though managed to reach my infantry and the result was excellent. The pikemen kept the enemy infantry and cavalry away from the musketeers while those either kept shooting to protect the pikemen from archers and strelets or engaged with their axes with deadly efficiency. When I saw too many enemy ranged units in front of our lines I sent the dragoons in to drawn their attention and kill some.

The battle ended with 4 death men on our side (damage set to full), 3 of them dragoons and 2 wounded. Which are usually the kind of casualties I get with Kaiserlicher troops and way below the ones I get with Swadians and the Lion Throne wackos.

Have you tried something similar? Perhaps with other nations?

TL;DR: Haelmarians pwn using nordmen musketeers set as infantry along pikemen,
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Shrugging Khan

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Re: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2012, 11:25:28 AM »
Defensive tactics are too cowardly for the glorious Lauro-Swadian shock troopers!

So no, I never use tactics like that. Nice work finding a way of using mixed infantry, though!  :lol:
  THE BEATINGS SHALL CONTINUE - UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES! 

Articulo34

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Re: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2012, 12:52:02 PM »
Defensive tactics are too cowardly for the glorious Lauro-Swadian shock troopers!

So no, I never use tactics like that. Nice work finding a way of using mixed infantry, though!  :lol:
Only a bullet catcher like you would launch an assault with a smaller formation against a big force.
"Hitler ist ein Trottel, Mussolini auch!" - Homer J. Simpson

Somebody

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Re: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2012, 12:23:02 AM »
You don't necessarily need to level them up to musketeer - the only differences are in terms of level, skill and proficiencies. I'l add some gloves to the musketeers to distinguish them I guess. Should I also remove the guaranteed rifle for the infantry?

NacroxNicke

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Re: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2012, 02:49:22 AM »
Now I want to play TEATRC again, but I can't because this month is freaking hell, I haven't stopped of doing reports, informs, works, and exams!

Jesus Christ, I need to finish this :D

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Re: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2012, 05:35:23 AM »
Yeah, I need to finish this before more patches get released. A lot of the features are outdated and I'll probably leave them frozen or something.

Articulo34

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Re: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2012, 09:07:45 AM »
You don't necessarily need to level them up to musketeer - the only differences are in terms of level, skill and proficiencies. I'l add some gloves to the musketeers to distinguish them I guess. Should I also remove the guaranteed rifle for the infantry?
You shouldn´t. Their armor is crap. For nordmen infantry only the musket keeps them alive when forming with melee troops. And I don´t agree with your earlier statement. The musketeer hits harder (200 to 145 in 1H) and can withstand more punishment (5 to 2 IF). Those are critical to survive among pikemen.

EDIT: One thing I wouldn´t mind to see among nordmen (both infantry and musketeer) is double wielding axes, one set as a small shield (like the Sea Riders with their shield flintlock pistols). That would make them more attractive for players since they could clearly be used as melee troops with firing capabilities. Perhaps to compensate you could replace their muskets with arquebuses.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 09:12:05 AM by Articulo34 »
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Re: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2012, 12:38:08 AM »
Yeah, I reskinned the Native axe already. I'll toss it up as a shield, but I'm not sure if it's lore friendly.

If anybody want to see how these look in-game, I'll upload it with a working copy of module_items. I haven't tested them at all yet.

Articulo34

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Re: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2012, 09:28:06 AM »
I don´t see why not. Nordmen have always been the best melee troops of the Haelmar Union (and the worst shooters among town troops), that would make them a little more unique while also giving them slightly better survival capabilities.
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Shrugging Khan

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Re: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2012, 10:44:12 AM »
I concur. Make them worse shooters, but better brawlers. And then tell me what's special about the other two colours/cultures.

Quote
Only a bullet catcher like you would launch an assault with a smaller formation against a big force.
And Win.
  THE BEATINGS SHALL CONTINUE - UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES! 

Articulo34

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Re: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2012, 12:40:07 PM »
I concur. Make them worse shooters, but better brawlers. And then tell me what's special about the other two colours/cultures.

Quote
Only a bullet catcher like you would launch an assault with a smaller formation against a big force.
And Win.
Berthe are the best shots (225 firearms the musketeer). I guess the haelmarians should be (if they are not, I do not know) something in between. Better at melee than berthe and better shooters than nords.

And excuse me if I remain skeptical about that bold claim of yours.
"Hitler ist ein Trottel, Mussolini auch!" - Homer J. Simpson

Captured Joe

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Re: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2012, 04:18:18 PM »
He didn't say what kind of bigger force.

If I assault some 100 Ducals with my 30-or-so Doppelsöldner, I just win.
(About half of my Doppelguys will be companions then, BTW.)

That said, great tactic indeed for the Haelmarians. I always liked them, but they were too expensive for me, most of the time.

And I honestly don't like the idea of dual-wielding axes. But it's the decision of the mighty modders, Lore-master Venitius, and almighty D'Sparil after all.
(Good thing I still play the old M&B version of this & all other mods.)

EDIT:
I suddenly remember reading about Gustavus Adolphus' infantry tactics; His pikemen were deployed with his musketeers too in an unique formation (the so-called 'Swedish Brigade'), and they supported each other in battle. And those Haelmarians do resemble Gustavus' Swedes IMO.
So Articulo, historically fitting, that.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 04:21:26 PM by Captured Joe »

Articulo34

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Re: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2012, 06:31:11 PM »
...I always liked them, but they were too expensive for me, most of the time.
There is nothing too expensive once you have business enterprises set in every single town of Calradia. Ah, but you need Warband for that. :mrgreen:

I make around 10k denars clean each week just by sitting my arse in Ivangorod.
"Hitler ist ein Trottel, Mussolini auch!" - Homer J. Simpson

Captured Joe

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Re: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2012, 07:31:46 PM »
The fun of being a mercenary captain in native is scraping together some money to pay your company's upkeep and buy some equipment for your companions.
Or at least, it is for me.

Oh, and defend your country against the inferior foes.

sitting my arse
So lickers do have arses?
They must have special Arse-concealing Armor then.

Articulo34

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Re: Haelmarian Pike´n Shot tactics PROFIT!
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2012, 08:23:46 PM »
The fun of being a mercenary captain in native is scraping together some money to pay your company's upkeep and buy some equipment for your companions.
Or at least, it is for me.

Oh, and defend your country against the inferior foes.

sitting my arse
So lickers do have arses?
They must have special Arse-concealing Armor then.
I´m playing a Swadian born merchant turned into Haelmarian noble by feat of money and tournaments in that game. No Licker this time.
"Hitler ist ein Trottel, Mussolini auch!" - Homer J. Simpson