Feinting - The New Spinning

[camperus]

Anyway melee is very unbalanced in this mod, for example: bayonet overhead is op and officers have a too short sword (officers need some improvement on melee).

Wrong. Unless you prefer swords that can out-swing bayonet-stabs. It's not the size that matters.

It's the most balanced and best melee in all of Mount and Blade. You just have to let go of your pre-determined love for spammy op-swords to realize it.

I dont know how deep is ur understand of melee mechanics but officer is very underpowered (against skilled players). Officers have a short sword for melee(compared with commander or heavy cavalry),and a shitty pistol for close ranged. If u survive to the ranged fest and start a melee fight u will face mostly infantry muskets, that are longer than ur fast sword. At this point u have to block the first attack (i noticed that sometimes when u block an overhead ur weapon got stunned or maybe are lag issues), and then if the other player is backpedaling u have to block again. Blocking an sword isnt so much hard for an skilled player, and animations arent so weird, compared to native, but infantry musket overhead is a bit weird to block and can reach u for a long distance. U are fast (low weight) but infantry musket users are fast too and have a longer weapon that can 1 hit u when u have to hit 2 times to kill (with overhead).
Sorry for my bad english.

[L3git Squig Herder]

I agree feinting isn't historically accurate, but with out feinting all melee would be is blocking up and down until someone gets bored and quits. 

[Helixrider]

The one way I have found to kill a feint-spammer is to go on the offense.

I find that a quick strike in thier mass-feinting is a good way to tell them that its looks stupid.

Its a bit like that in real life when I go to tournaments, whenever I get feinted to much withought my opponent in aactually attacking, I just to a quick strike and their to busy feinting to block it.

And dont worry, English is not my native language either.

[Thokan]

Allow me to grab my box of tissues. That shit is funny...

As a Swede and IKEA wizard I hereby revoke Thokan's membership in an online Swedish regiment.


We will not acceptance such ignorance from anyone associated with our great nation.

Just my opinion. No need to get all mad about it. It is quite natural for modplayers to say their mod contains the best melee. I do. Many a cRPG players do, And I am quite sure you two do believe Vikingr is a good mod, 'cause it is.

No need to flame. Me and my opinion shall sit here, alongside my 2k+ hours in Warband and believe we are somewhat relevant.

[Leberecht Reinhold]

I dont know how deep is ur understand of melee mechanics but officer is very underpowered (against skilled players). Officers have a short sword for melee(compared with commander or heavy cavalry),and a shitty pistol for close ranged. If u survive to the ranged fest and start a melee fight u will face mostly infantry muskets, that are longer than ur fast sword. At this point u have to block the first attack (i noticed that sometimes when u block an overhead ur weapon got stunned or maybe are lag issues), and then if the other player is backpedaling u have to block again. Blocking an sword isnt so much hard for an skilled player, and animations arent so weird, compared to native, but infantry musket overhead is a bit weird to block and can reach u for a long distance. U are fast (low weight) but infantry musket users are fast too and have a longer weapon that can 1 hit u when u have to hit 2 times to kill (with overhead).
Sorry for my bad english.

If hes backpedaling, he get some serious negatives. See when the musket bounces and does little damage when it hits? Its because that.
Its also funny that you say that a sword is easy to block by a skilled player. A bayonet is even easier to block. I would agree with swords being too slow, but it isnt as bad as you are making it.

As far as the feinting goes, is one of the core things of melee in mount&blade. They make the combat so much more interesting.

PD. Regarding the most balanced melee in the game, everyone will have an opinion. NW plays so much nicer with groups and favour much more hordes of people without skill (like me ) that still stab you to death. In other mods there is people that can singlehandlely win fights. On the other hand, Vikingr has a such nice shield combat... I havent played in a while (AKA - months), but cav used to be totally broken, though. Cav in NW feels light and hard-hitting, without being rapers of the world.
So I would say that the balance is more or less right to the general idea of the mod.

[MaHuD]

Considering that even bots try to feint, I dont think its an exploit.

Like chambers, Im sure they appeared in some patch notes (somewhere)

Actually it is a bug made feature.

My problem with the feinting in  NW is that it seems that switching between blocks is slower  than switching between attacks.

edit:

And yes  the sword is UP but that's  intended.

[Evanovic]

This thread just emphasises the fact that changing a thing of two in the melee (e.g. turning speed) in order to fix a few exploits has led to other exploits emerging and becoming more dominant forces in the gameplay. At least in the past there were more options in melee.
 
This is what I've seen happen with NW: Turning Speed Reduced along with new weird overhead animation > death of excessive spinning, sweeping, chambering and blocking, whilst increasing spamming and feinting.
 
In my opinion, the variety that MM had in the past made the gameplay at least a lot more interesting and balanced. Things don't need to return to MM levels, but it's certain that they've drifted too far away from those levels.
 
This is not 'trolling', this is expressing the reality of the new melee.
 
About Hekko's solutions: The one I agree with most is the smoothing the animations. I'm a little worried about how the others will affect the usefullness of blocking (not that it hasn't been already drastically reduced) but the general message you're getting across is a right one.
 
Evan

[rejenorst]

I myself find the feinting annoying but then I suck at melee. Its not uncommon to see players feinting like a mad ninja just before a stab. hehe

[ADrunkenIrishman]

While I agree feinting is ridiculously easy, entirely too fast, and historically inaccurate... remember this is just a game and we're all here to have fun. That being said, don't let a slight distortion in animations and/or unrealistic tactics get you peeved. At best, figure out your own way to counter it that best suits you, or accept the fact that person beat you and move on.

Alpha

[rejenorst]

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[Sir Tristran]

Feinting has been in the game since the Beta of Warband. Its an intentional feature, and quite easy to counter once you get used to it. Yes its unrealistic, but its the best thing the game could have to make melee combat more then swing block swing block swing block, you know, robotic? If you notice someone is feinting alot, try to read the feints and just swing when you know they will feint, because you will hit them. And also, hate to say it but... L2 block?

[Evanovic]

Feinting has been in the game since the Beta of Warband. Its an intentional feature, and quite easy to counter once you get used to it. Yes its unrealistic, but its the best thing the game could have to make melee combat more then swing block swing block swing block, you know, robotic? If you notice someone is feinting alot, try to read the feints and just swing when you know they will feint, because you will hit them. And also, hate to say it but... L2 block?

The thread is being more satirical than serious I think. He's getting at the fact that people have been obsessing so much over reducing the turning speed in order to get rid of 'spin-stabs' and 'sweep stabs' upon the assumption that it's a cheap and unrealistic tactic, and yet there are plenty other thing such as feinting which live on unnoticed and in fact more prominent as a result of a slower turning speed. Ridiculing much of what's being asked in this thread: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,227965.0.html .

[Maboobs]

Perfect 

[Úlfheðinn]

Just my opinion. No need to get all mad about it. It is quite natural for modplayers to say their mod contains the best melee. I do. Many a cRPG players do, And I am quite sure you two do believe Vikingr is a good mod, 'cause it is.

No need to flame. Me and my opinion shall sit here, alongside my 2k+ hours in Warband and believe we are somewhat relevant.

I find humor to be enjoyable when posting.


Secondly,  I don't play Vikingr nor have I ever suggested it is a good or bad mod. 

My problem with removing feinting is that the combat in Warband(regardless of mod) does not have enough options to "win" a fight.

I do find melee combat in MM and in turn NW is too slow/easy, however, removing/nerfing/etc feinting would only make melee combat even more boring.

[SvenssonHD]

I don't particularily think removing feinting is suitable nor needed, but what Hekko is suggesting is; rebalancing, not removing, which you seem to have missed out.