Author Topic: Feinting - The New Spinning  (Read 3662 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Hekko

  • Master Knight
  • *
  • Drabanterna gotta drabant
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
  • MP nick: Drabant_Ryttmästare_Hekko
  • M&BWBWF&SNW
Feinting - The New Spinning
« on: May 04, 2012, 07:00:17 PM »
Disclaimer: Before you brand me as a troll or something else evil, please read through the post throughly and give the things I mention a bit of though. Some of the post is a satire of the spinning discussion, some are actual real observations about how feinting works with bayonets ingame at the moment and some of it is written for the lulz of the author, I will leave it up to the reader to decide what is what.

1 What is feinting?


Feinting is as we all know it a way to change attack direction mid-attack in order to fool the enemy into blocking the wrong way, or if being really clever to fool the enemy by NOT changing attack direction despite going through the process of changing it. This effect is very easy to achieve and the technique is quite simple, you tap the right mousbutton directly after releasing a stab and then send away a new stab. Doesn't get simpler.

2 Why feinting is unrealistic


If you have played the game and fought against a feinter you know what I am talking about right here. They keep changing attack directions at lightspeed and ultimatly you think that they are either dancing some wierd dance at a rave under the influence of something else than lemonade, or that they are having a seizure of some other kind. If you realisticly were to do something like that you would not be able to do it at that speed. If you contrary to all belief were able to do it you would still probably end up either dropping the musket, hurting yourself, and when you actually go for the stab it would probably lack any power behind it what so ever. Yet ingame it almost always onehits, you never drop your musket or hurt yourself or your comrades in arms.

3 Feinting is an exploit


By feinting you are abusing the mechanic which enables you to block in the middle of a stab if you notice that you have misstimed your attack, clearly it wasn't intended to be used as something that could pass of as dancemoves at a rave, the same applies to headbanging as well!

4 Why feinting is too powerful

Feinting at the moment is arguably THE most powerful way to fight, yet still all you need to know in order to perform effective feinting is to know how to do it, no timing and no risk involved, no trying to figure out your enemies next moves.

Feinting also relies upon the ridicolously vague, confusing and fast animations of attacks. If someone feints with a sword it's quite easy to follow the feint and know what attack direction it will come from, but with the bayonet  there are various hiccups in the animations which give the animation an extra jump as if to move up when moving down etc. And a weapon of this magnitude is at the disposal of anybody who find out you can stop stabs a bit into the stab.

This fast speed also means that some counters that used to work in MM are useless, the "implied" chamber is quite useless now, because the enemy simply changes attack-direction and hits you before you can hit them with your attempted chamber. Which adds further safety to the feinter and ensures feinting as an end-all-be-all playstyle.

So ultimatly the only thing you can do against a feinter is to block, and even that is dodgey at best due to the nature of feinting.

5 Potential fixes to feinting

  • Increase the time it takes to start a new attack after canceling the previous one six times, i.e. make the duration between feints six times longer
  • Make it so that you can only poke/thud/stub/whif a player if you have changed attackdirection the last 2 seconds
  • Make it so that you drop your musket if you feint too quickly
  • Make it so that you do damage to yourself if you feint too often
  • Make it so that your attack cannot be canceled after release
  • Make it so that you cannot release an attack for a certain time after having changed attack direction.
  • Smoothen the animations and slow them down a bit so that implied chambers are something that works against a feintspammer

Before you go on and report me to moderators, please reread and think about the stuff you have read and read the disclaimer again.

Kind regards,
Hekko
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 09:43:49 PM by Hekko »

hrotha

  • Knight
  • *
  • Ungelic is us
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
  • MP nick: Hróðbeorht Fyrninga
  • WBWF&SNW
Re: Feinting - The New Spinning
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2012, 07:19:23 PM »
HELLO I JUMP RIGHT TO THE REPLY BUTTON WITHOUT READING COLOURED LETTERS
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 07:28:50 PM by hrotha »

camperus

  • Recruit
  • *
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
  • MP nick: Malahostia
Re: Feinting - The New Spinning
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2012, 07:33:05 PM »
U can spam, kick and rape, chamber or just block and hold or faint attacks... exploit? /facepalm

Anyway melee is very unbalanced in this mod, for example: bayonet overhead is op and officers have a too short sword (officers need some improvement on melee).
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 07:36:41 PM by camperus »

gokiller

  • Grandmaster Knight
  • *
  • Mapper
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Nord
  • MP nick: Gokiller
  • WBWF&S
Re: Feinting - The New Spinning
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2012, 07:37:57 PM »
Keep it on-toptic, I believe there are other threads to complain about the sword thing ;)

Thokan

  • Knight
  • *
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Swadian
  • MP nick: Modig
Re: Feinting - The New Spinning
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2012, 07:40:01 PM »
Anyway melee is very unbalanced in this mod, for example: bayonet overhead is op and officers have a too short sword (officers need some improvement on melee).

Wrong. Unless you prefer swords that can out-swing bayonet-stabs. It's not the size that matters.

It's the most balanced and best melee in all of Mount and Blade. You just have to let go of your pre-determined love for spammy op-swords to realize it.
Shunned Official Admin. Labeled "troublemaker" and "troll" by FSE. Persecuted accordingly.

Leberecht Reinhold

  • Master Knight
  • *
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
  • MP nick: Leberecht_von_Reinhold
  • WBWF&SNW
Re: Feinting - The New Spinning
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2012, 07:43:49 PM »
Considering that even bots try to feint, I dont think its an exploit.

Like chambers, Im sure they appeared in some patch notes (somewhere)

DrTaco

  • Grandmaster Knight
  • *
  • Don't expect me to take you seriously.
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Nord
  • MP nick: 13te person.
  • WBWF&SNW
Re: Feinting - The New Spinning
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2012, 08:57:24 PM »
Coming from the Native/Duel perspective, I don't think feinting is honestly the largest problem here. If it is a problem, anyway.
Permanently delicious
 
Don't bother taking life seriously - Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Punishment

  • Knight at Arms
  • *
  • Punish's Punie Puns.
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Rhodok
  • MP nick: Punishment
  • M&BWBWF&SNW
Re: Feinting - The New Spinning
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2012, 08:59:39 PM »
people magicly stabbing me through my block is the real problem. :|

psychopigeon

  • Sergeant at Arms
  • *
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
  • WBNW
Re: Feinting - The New Spinning
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2012, 09:04:04 PM »
Hit detection and weird melee lag needs to be sorted

Gunnar11

  • Squire
  • *
  • Gunnar Travis
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Nord
  • MP nick: 25thVA_Cpt_Travis
  • M&BWBWF&S
Re: Feinting - The New Spinning
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2012, 09:08:24 PM »
Feinting is why I haven't bought NW yet. Too much rage involved in me switching my block a hundred times to get stabbed anyway.

Madhal

  • Veteran
  • *
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
Re: Feinting - The New Spinning
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2012, 09:15:22 PM »
people magicly stabbing me through my block is the real problem. :|

this happens me sometimes too. i think attacker has low ping so your block is late for his attack...

Maboobs

  • Knight at Arms
  • *
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Neutral
  • WBNW
Re: Feinting - The New Spinning
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2012, 09:36:16 PM »

Eiríkr Rauði

  • Guest
Re: Feinting - The New Spinning
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2012, 09:40:29 PM »

It's the most balanced and best melee in all of Mount and Blade. You just have to let go of your pre-determined love for spammy op-swords to realize it.

Allow me to grab my box of tissues. That shit is funny...

Rollon

  • Regular
  • *
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Nord
Re: Feinting - The New Spinning
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2012, 10:06:01 PM »
It's the most balanced and best melee in all of Mount and Blade. You just have to let go of your pre-determined love for spammy op-swords to realize it.

Oh man...
(click to show/hide)

Úlfheðinn

  • Grandmaster Knight
  • *
  • Professional Swede
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Bandit
Re: Feinting - The New Spinning
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2012, 10:15:33 PM »
As a Swede and IKEA wizard I hereby revoke Thokan's membership in an online Swedish regiment.

It's the most balanced and best melee in all of Mount and Blade. You just have to let go of your pre-determined love for spammy op-swords to realize it.

We will not acceptance such ignorance from anyone associated with our great nation.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 10:18:02 PM by Úlfheðinn »