Overhead Stab - Why it's too powerful.

[Gunnar11]

The upperstab makes it so unrealistic. I've tryed many times, that I understab a guy like a sec before him. Then he upperstab after my understab. I die on 1 hit even if I was the one who stabbed first. I've been pissed many times over the melee. Not to be ungrateful and all that but.... The melee should be changed alot. Now it's only spam and feint which kills.

This is how I would sum it up.

[WaffleBorn]

It's faster and has more reach, it's not like it shoots laser beams and fire-breathing dragons carrying Soviet Bronies with MG 42's. Just block it and counter attack. And you can stab underneath an overhand stab because of how high they hold the musket it would take longer for them to move it to down block from a position that high. You just need to time it properly as with any attack.

[Thokan]

It's faster and has more reach, it's not like it shoots laser beams and fire-breathing dragons carrying Soviet Bronies with MG 42's. Just block it and counter attack. And you can stab underneath an overhand stab because of how high they hold the musket it would take longer for them to move it to down block from a position that high. You just need to time it properly as with any attack.

But they would stab you before you could stab them, they wouldnt need to worry about blocking down at all.

[WaffleBorn]

That's why I said you need to time it correctly 

[jbebes]

Learn to dodge and block. The lag and the late, far hits with the overhead should be fixed. Other than that, melee would be fine. If you keep blocking the spammers, they have to switch it up and during a feint, go for the kill.

[Nordmann]

Went on an overhead-stab rampage the other day whilst in a siege match, and found it pretty damn powerful when used properly. I was defending a doorway through which the other team were trying to breach the fort, and every time they bottlenecked up in there, I'd round the corner and give them a few stabs for good measure. Went from 6 or 7 kills, to 22 in only a few mins, and didn't even need to reload.

[Gricks]

The overhead stab goes through blocks half the time. It lets terrible players spam and makes melee a random spam fest. I hardly see blocks anymore unless people are dueling (the duel never lasts long anyways). I went 59-8 on the reddit tdm server and I hardly blocked at all. It is all about turning/ spinning to make your overhead hit immediately. And, no, you cannot block it fast enough half the time.

Overhead is broken as balls. Hell, the bayonet is broken as balls. It is a glitchy attack that anyone can use to instagib.

It makes melee boring and frustrating.

[WaffleBorn]

It's not broken, it's tricky, the stab follows through for longer than you think, that's why it appears to go through your block because you release when you think it's already finished but it's not

[Der Cherusker]

I'm not a bad player, but I had problems blocking the overhead stab. When somebody uses it against me, I get hit nearly everytime. It's just so hard for me to block it, I don't know why.

[Azrooh]

For anybody looking for solid numbers...

Underhand stab:
201.5cm horizontal reach
135.8cm vertical reach (looking straight, more or less if looking up or down)

Overhand stab:
211.5cm horizontal reach
160.2cm vertical reach (looking straight, more or less if looking up or down)



Head height (hitbox-wise) is 150cm to 178cm.


Plus, the animation looks so silly. Why would you even consider this? Everything with the red line is completely open.


A cool video of a bayonet fight, not sure how well it translates to the Napoleonic era, but I don't see any silly instances of raising your arms above your head.

[Evanovic]

Plus, the animation looks so silly. Why would you even consider this? Everything with the red line is completely open.

(click to show/hide)

And yet on the servers, and most prominently in the Linebattles, is the overhead stab the favourite. I see people running around with overheads braced all time because it's got better reach and has a more confusing animation, whereas IRL it's probably one of the most vulnerable situations you could put yourself in.
 
Thanks for posting the stats of the range, as some people have been claiming the opposite of what they prove.
 
Also, that vid gives implications for the rest of bayonet melee. As one can see, the melee fighting mostly entails parrying, agile movement and occasionally kicking the opponenet. We get nothing of the sort in the current melee, only feinting and spamming, with a slow turning mechanic that makes it extremely hard to stab someone whilst they are face-hugging you. I have no idea how people defending the NW melee think they have any case to say it should remain like this.

[TWking]

I find that the over head stab is a bit harder(not that much) to to hit the target it with and also I seem to have to hit him more if I use the over head stab, maybe if they make it more harder to hit someone with the over head stab it would balance itout more

[DarkOmega]

I do miss the days of challenging melee combat in linebattles now i only have to use the up attack over and over again sort of takes the fun out of it.

[Maboobs]

Also, that vid gives implications for the rest of bayonet melee. As one can see, the melee fighting mostly entails parrying, agile movement and occasionally kicking the opponenet. We get nothing of the sort in the current melee, only feinting and spamming, with a slow turning mechanic that makes it extremely hard to stab someone whilst they are face-hugging you. I have no idea how people defending the NW melee think they have any case to say it should remain like this.

See, the problem itself is not NW melee, it's Mount and Blade melee in general. There wouldn't be facehugging if you could grapple your opponent away from you, but that's just not a possible thing in the combat. Spinning doesn't instantly make your stab any better when someone is facehugging anyways, and if you are both facehugging then neither of you are going to do damage. And if someone is facehugging THAT hard, kick them in the nuts man. Heck, you said it yourself, kicking people is what they did.

As one can see, the melee fighting mostly entails parrying, agile movement and occasionally kicking the opponenet.

[Lowlander]

(click to show/hide)

For anybody looking for solid numbers...

Underhand stab:
201.5cm horizontal reach
135.8cm vertical reach (looking straight, more or less if looking up or down)

Overhand stab:
211.5cm horizontal reach
160.2cm vertical reach (looking straight, more or less if looking up or down)



Head height (hitbox-wise) is 150cm to 178cm.


Plus, the animation looks so silly. Why would you even consider this? Everything with the red line is completely open.


A cool video of a bayonet fight, not sure how well it translates to the Napoleonic era, but I don't see any silly instances of raising your arms above your head.

I thought after seeing this, what pictures I could find of Napoleonic warfare that would show someone using this technique. There wasnt many that I could find, but google isnt perfect but found some and even a couple American Civil Wars ones as well.

(click to show/hide)

I would like to point out that the video that you posted is good for showing some aspects of bayonet combat but not all. Soldiers wouldnt have that much space on a battlefied during the Napoleonic Wars as most likely they would have their company pushing from behind them. With limited space you would have to find ways to get around the defense of an enemy and going over them would be an option. I think that the over head stab is a good addition but does seem as if it needs some tweaks. Overall we know that the MB mechanics cant replicate fully real combat but they have given it a good go. It is a lot better this way than having a clubbing animation as seen in some of the pictures as it adds a sort of flow to melee combat and keeps it moving fast which means the players also have to be fast in both attack and defense.