Cavalry are Rubbish

[Kator Viridian]

My entire point was that Couching and Muskets are both Instakill, unblockable attacks, as an answer to Reinholds statement
"An unblockable attack, that is instakill and that outranges everything?

Yeah, you are right, sounds balanced."
 

Sorry I assumed that you were talking about the musket shooting compared to the couched lance ... considering they are the 2 ways in which to hit someone through a block.

The point is they can't be blocked but both can be dodged ... thats something to do with skill/knowledge level of the player than the game balancement.

Also muskets arn't insta kills, where as a couch lance will very very very very very rarely let someone come out the other side if it connects, not like i'm complaining, I love fighting lancers myself, probably one of the challenging things I love about NW/MM ... although since the lack of blocking for lancers it seems all too easy now.

[berserkergang]

Saw three French Cuirassiers charge at russian infantry man today the Russian turned around saw them readied his bayonet and so the cuirassiers fled. See this all to often now quite sad really Joachim Murat must be rolling in his grave.

[Hatake]

To be honest I Think that couched lances should not be blockable, the case should be, seeing as cavalry have the height advantage they should be hard to take down, and cav have a disadvantage because they actually have to get to the infantry before they can attack, whereas infantry can shoot from distance with musket, so who's to say that Calvary shouldn't be devastating if they DO manage to get close enough and dodge the musket volleys?

Think of it in terms of a linebattle on a server. The only way for Calvary to stand a chance, is if they are properly dangerous with melee, like i said if they manage to ambush and catch an infantry line off guard, the infantry should pay for it! Obviously the counter to Calvary getting close is killing them before they are able to do that, which is perfectly possible, so why shouldn't it be possible for Calvary to wipe out a regiment at close range?

[Alma69]

To be honest I Think that couched lances should not be blockable, the case should be, seeing as cavalry have the height advantage they should be hard to take down, and cav have a disadvantage because they actually have to get to the infantry before they can attack, whereas infantry can shoot from distance with musket, so who's to say that Calvary shouldn't be devastating if they DO manage to get close enough and dodge the musket volleys?

Think of it in terms of a linebattle on a server. The only way for Calvary to stand a chance, is if they are properly dangerous with melee, like i said if they manage to ambush and catch an infantry line off guard, the infantry should pay for it! Obviously the counter to Calvary getting close is killing them before they are able to do that, which is perfectly possible, so why shouldn't it be possible for Calvary to wipe out a regiment at close range?

It is not blockable, but so what? Lance is so terribly short... Lightbayonet just out reach it by a mile... Couched lance is simply useless. I understand that devs nerved the lance with lack of block but why on hell shortened it so much? It is over nerved. Make it short but with block and over head stab. Or keep it as it is but make it longer as it was.
Do something with horse and will be just fine.

To guys speaking about skill... Where on hell do you see skill in sneaking and taking out an unaware soldier?
The real skill is in taking out other players in fight.

I just saw in some line battle 6 or 5 lancers traying with 1 lightbayo. He killed like 3 lancers with over head stab taking out horse and lancer in one stab. 3 stabs, 3 deaths in 2 secends. Until one of them decided to actually fight on foot. So sad view.

And please can someone actually support with lance stats?
I still cant find it nowhere.

[OsricFromHamlet]

Has anyone noticed the overwhelming preference for dragoons in recent days?  It seems that the community has determined that the best solution to the current "lightbayonet" situation is to charge towards the offending infantryman, fire a shot at close range (which hits with an amusing level of accuracy for a horseback fired musket), and either kill the infantryman or withdraw to a safe distance to reload and try again.  Mongolian horse archer tactics are lovely and all but I'm pretty sure it didn't play out like this IRL.  Which should say something.

This is ignoring the oddball cavalry battles that result from dragoons vs melee cavalry.  It turns into a game of chicken with the dragoon either shooting the melee horseman dead (again with some oddly accurate fire) or he misses and it devolves into sword v. lance/sword (which can still go in the dragoon's favour AND he can just bolt from slower heavy cav to reload).  Musketoon dragoons are even worse.  Firing a musketoon from horseback -especially ahead of you- seems like a good way to hit your own horse and sod all else.  Heaven forbid you get one of the bastards on your tail.

Aside from the previous tweaks to charges and horse/rider HP (wasn't a breastplate designed to stop musket balls?) dragoons need to be given their own class of horse.  It should have reasonable speed (for battlefield mobility) but otherwise be relatively mediocre to prevent them overlapping with other cavalry types.  Dragoons weren't supposed to act as cavalry but as mobile infantry and having them successfully engage proper cavalry is...wrong.

[Alma69]

Dragons and inf as well in that manner needs to drastically loss accuracy while on move. To force them to stop or slow down if they want to hit anything. In exchange i would give dragons reloading in very, very slow movement.

Yes cuirasser breastplate could stop bullet at long range.

[Nordmann]

Yes cuirasser breastplate could stop bullet at long range.

Very long range, and only once it has spent its energy. I think you are overestimating the thickness of that cuirass.

[Rhonerin]

Yes cuirasser breastplate could stop bullet at long range.

Very long range, and only once it has spent its energy. I think you are overestimating the thickness of that cuirass.

Real cuirasses coud stop bullets but many regiments just had cuirasses for show so called parade cuirasses.
Real cuirasses whas 8mm-1cm thick and whas able to stop a bullet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1K2DZ7NUoM

[tomislawus]

How many hits of a rifle butt does it take to kill a 500 kg horse?

1

Can you see whats wrong with the above?

[Hanko]

While it may have been able to stop some shots, the real purpose of the cuirass was to protect against swords and lances, not bullets. Napoleon specifically ordered his carabiniers to be equipped with cuirasses after seeing the wounds the Austrian lancers were inflicting on his cavalry. No cavalryman wore armor to protect himself against muskets. It was all with melee in mind.

As for lances vs bayonets, why listen to me when you can listen to somebody who was actually there? Let me show you a quote from a cavalryman who was fighting a square on horseback. The quote is from the book "Napoleon's Army" by H.C.B. Rogers, and the quote is the words of a French cavalryman of the 23rd Chasseurs a Cheval by the name of Marbot.

'Of the battle of the Katzback in 1813, however, he has the following story to tell: "The plateau of Jauer and the banks of the Katzbach suddenly became the theatre of a bloody battle, for from every wood Prussian troops were advancing. My regiment... soon found itself in front of an enemy infantry brigade whose muskets had been put out of action by the rain and could not fire a single shot. I tried to break the Prussian square but our horses, hindered by the mud which was up to their hocks, could only advance at a walk, and one knows that without some impetus it is nearly impossible for cavalry to penetrate into the closed ranks of steady and well commanded infantry, presenting a hedge of bayonets. We went so close to them that we spoke with them and struck their muskets with the blades of our sabres. But we could not break into their lines, though this would have been easy if General Sebastiani had not sent the brigade artillery to another place. Our situation and that of the enemy infantry in front of us was becoming really ridiculous, for... our sabres were too short to reach our enemies whose muskets could not fire! Things were in this state for some time when General Maurin, commanding the next brigade to ours, sent to our aid the 6th Regiment of Lancers, and their long weapons, passing over the enemy bayonets, killed in an instant so many Prussians that not only they but also the 23rd and 24th Chasseurs were able to penetrate into the enemy square..." '


This could never happen in our game. Whether that is right or wrong isn't up to me to decide for you, but I know Marbot would find some aspects of this game quite frustrating.

[JeanChristophe]

Look, I guess the devs are catoring to the main group of the game (infantry). It is a smart move, probably the move all game companies would have made. So we can whine on, but since we cavalry players arent the main player base. Its going to be like screaming in the middle of the sahara, no use.

Its a lost cause, sorry to say it .

[rahte]

It is completely vice versa Noone play cav, because it is pointless, because cav are rubbish. And I as You can see the ammount of persons who want to play cav or who played cav and resigned or play cav is very high. I would say that it is circa 1/2 of players or even more... and all those players will sooner or later find another game because their expectations will not be fullfiled. It is simple. It is what we call Market. It is what we call Money. No money no game.

And If I were You I would screem like hell to make the to make the cavalry awesome and remakable good. Simply to attract more players and simply to make the game last longer. Because there is no force in the universe to force player to play a game whitch he do not want to play. As long as it is like it is they are losing 1/2 of clients, and therefore 1/2 of money, players and time on market.

+ what I said before:

(click to show/hide)

I'm totally agree with You. It is a game and it have to be balanced, but You have to put under Your consideration that this game is not "Modern Warfare" or "Quake". It is about "Napoleonic Wars" and persons who play this game want to feel like there were in Napoleonic Wars...if this game will loose it, people will choose Quake, or any other game where You have eyes on the back of Your head, non-stop running infantry without tiring, shoot on long distances with fire-weapons, or you can kill other player with a look (like basically right now infantry do with cavalry)... players play it "to feel like", "to be like"... to play something different than other shooters... and making cavalry in MOUNT&BLADE:Napoleonic Wars useless, and cavalry is right now a peace of crap and You can check it and feel it from the beginning when You play this mod, will make players disappointed, because it will not fill their expectations.

It is worth to make infantry overwhelming, running around the maps how they want and like they want like crazy rabbits, just so players who scream and cry the most have better hit/death ratio... just like in any other shooter? I do not think so, because on one hand You make game unbalanced, and on the other hand you make 1/2 of players who want to play cavalry disappointed, because of lack of balance (this is what make the game playable) and historically inaccurate (this is what make the game wanted by players, like I said, "to feel like", "to be like")

[Alma69]

I think the money is a problem. They did commercial dlc with all those nice new graphs and nice looking features, but loosed something. The real passion and love to the game. I see it as they concentrated on shiny noob atractive look and losted they concentration on core game mechanics and balance. They want to stay it arcade, in other words noobs friendly. But that is a short patch as described above.

[Talii]

This problem roots back to MM. A Majority of the players wthere did not know how to counter cavalry, at all. Instead of learning ( with a few rifle company examples) they went to the devs, played the OP Card, and becouse they are the biggest playerbase, of course the Devs listened.

This is one of the most active threads on the NW Forums. Over 30 pages, and lots and lots of good sudjections how to balance the game. Have the Devs shown interest? No. Have the Devs even showed that they have read the thread and take it into consideration? No.

As Jean Said, Cav is the minority of this game, and it feels like we are meant to be severly underpowered in this "Historicly accurate DLC".
Dont get me all wrong there, I do enjoy some aspects of this DLC, Namely the Linebattles.

People dont play NW to play Cod:Napoleonic Wars. I believe most of the players play it becouse it is the most realistic Napoleonic Wars Simulator on the market. So why not keep it realistic in all aspects?

Providing Cavalry with Faster Horses, Gallop options, Increased damage(*), And Increased efficiency of riding over/trampling enemies would not make them the Gods of this game. It would work towards historic accuracy.


*
I Swear, all to many times the enemy survive after having my several decimeter long sharp piece of steel piercing their stomach, even when i have the speed bonus of a Running horse. If they are not already damaged, it seems like full speed are completely neceserry to land one hit stabs. In contrast to the Bayonet, Well ...

[Rhonerin]

(click to show/hide)

This problem roots back to MM. A Majority of the players wthere did not know how to counter cavalry, at all. Instead of learning ( with a few rifle company examples) they went to the devs, played the OP Card, and becouse they are the biggest playerbase, of course the Devs listened.

This is one of the most active threads on the NW Forums. Over 30 pages, and lots and lots of good sudjections how to balance the game. Have the Devs shown interest? No. Have the Devs even showed that they have read the thread and take it into consideration? No.

As Jean Said, Cav is the minority of this game, and it feels like we are meant to be severly underpowered in this "Historicly accurate DLC".
Dont get me all wrong there, I do enjoy some aspects of this DLC, Namely the Linebattles.

People dont play NW to play Cod:Napoleonic Wars. I believe most of the players play it becouse it is the most realistic Napoleonic Wars Simulator on the market. So why not keep it realistic in all aspects?

Providing Cavalry with Faster Horses, Gallop options, Increased damage(*), And Increased efficiency of riding over/trampling enemies would not make them the Gods of this game. It would work towards historic accuracy.


*
I Swear, all to many times the enemy survive after having my several decimeter long sharp piece of steel piercing their stomach, even when i have the speed bonus of a Running horse. If they are not already damaged, it seems like full speed are completely neceserry to land one hit stabs. In contrast to the Bayonet, Well ...

This is also my exact opinion i coud not agree more.
Also for all we know the devs might be working on it right now. Its not like they share any info with us.